What purpose were the androids built for in general. Not some kind of spoiler-y thing but, were they built as servants (my home game), as a quick build army, as companions for a dying race (I suspect not being all unemotional) and what purpose do they serve now? I want this because it tells us a lot about them and their interactions with the world.
Other questions are "How 'sci-fi robot' are they?" I've already gone past this in the home game but, since arm cannons and mechs and every other trapping of random sci-fi pop up. So something about how they're more like some random bit of pop culture would be nice to cut down on a lot of the robot stuff.
As for the soul thing, they have one because they can be raised from the dead, so I guess the process that makes them gives them a soul, maybe it's a magic thing?
What does android taste like?
Electric sheep.
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Hey folks, I have a question for you: What is the one question you have about androids that you would like to see addressed in an article about androids? (I won't be answering those questions here, at least not until an article comes out.)
To manage expectations, I may not be able to answer all of the questions asked for whatever reason.
Nighttree has most of the questions I'd vote for. Personally the most interested in how they view other races (and how races view them). Will they also have the 'how Androids fit into different classes' section, seen in the companion line?
And some more that occured to me last night....
Can they catch lycanthropsy, or be turned into "spawn" by undead ?
Another I hope not.
Yes they can. Androids are still biological living entities that happen to be synthetically created instead of being born and they don't have any special resistance to curses.
Since there humanoids and not constructs they can be turned into undead.
Any humanoid creature immune to disease is immune to lycanthropy unless it states otherwise in the creature's description.
Since there humanoids and not constructs they can be turned into undead.
I smell my first house rule.....
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If an android can be healed by positive energy, and count as 'alive' for that purpose, then they definitely should be as susceptible to negative energy (and becoming infused with and animated by negative energy) as any other living creature.
It would be kind of inconsistent, otherwise.
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Since there humanoids and not constructs they can be turned into undead.I smell my first house rule.....
Come on, you totally want to see shambling robot corpses. ;)
Come on, you totally want to see shambling robot corpses. ;)Since there humanoids and not constructs they can be turned into undead.I smell my first house rule.....
LOL...no, actually I don't.
I don't want undead androids, wereXXX andriods, or any other such thing.And I especially don't want half elf andriods :P
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Do these androids dream of electric sheep?
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I've... seen things you people wouldn't believe... [contemptuous laugh] Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched c-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhäuser Gate. All those... moments... will be lost in time, like [small cough] tears... in... rain. Time... to die...
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Any creature immune to disease is immune to mummy rot and lycanthropy. Even though they are curse effects they are also disease effects so you only have to be immune to ether curse or disease to be unaffected. If Paizo changes that now then that will open a whole new can of worms.
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If an android can be healed by positive energy, and count as 'alive' for that purpose, then they definitely should be as susceptible to negative energy (and becoming infused with and animated by negative energy) as any other living creature.
It would be kind of inconsistent, otherwise.
Another reason to vote for undead androids:
Think of all the cool visuals waiting to happen.
Android skeletons alone are worth the price of admission. Android ghosts having a bit of a "white noise" effect could be neat too.
RPG Superstar 2008 Top 6, Contributor
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Actually... I'm not so sure. Androids are certainly immune to mummy rot, but I think that they're also immune to lycanthropy, at least insofar as it being transmitted disease style by bites. Something we'll need to decide on soon, I guess.
Works for me. My assumptions went off of checking to see if lycanthropy qualified as a disease. Lycanthropy in the monster entry only mentions disease under the cure, and in the Core Rulebook the curse of lycantrhopy has type curse, injury (compare to mummy rot, with type curse, disease, injury). This may have been done to enable were* monks and paladins.
Dragon78 - can you find something that states that immunity to disease covers lycanthropy? I did not find such in the obvious places. Note for example "At 3rd level, a paladin is immune to all diseases, including supernatural and magical diseases, including mummy rot.". I did check such before my original post :)
If it wasn't also a disease then why would a remove disease spell have a chance of getting rid of it? It wasn't also a disease then why would a class feature that protects you from diseases would also include it?
I also find it strange they use the term "infect" or "infected" when describing someone getting Lycanthropy instead they should say they are "cursed" with lycanthropy.
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RPG Superstar 2008 Top 6, Contributor
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The ability name is "curse of lycanthropy", so there ya go. It works in ways similar to a disease, but it's a curse.
As far as non-diseases being affected by remove disease, there's a few others. For example, remove disease kills green slime, but immunity to disease doesn't protect you from green slime. I'd expect green slime to toast an android too, but I could be wrong.
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Androids are not immune to cool, in any case. In fact, they're quite susceptible to it.
Green slime is a hazard not an affliction/ailment.
Would android lycanthropes become visibly android-ish versions of their animal and hybrid forms? (And do android druids wild shape into android animals?)
Creative Director
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Would android lycanthropes become visibly android-ish versions of their animal and hybrid forms? (And do android druids wild shape into android animals?)
An android lycantrope in animal form, or an android druid in widlshape form, has used a supernatural power to change shape into the new form, and that results in a new form that looks 100% biological. An android lycantrhope that assumes hybrid form mixes the features of its animal and its humanoid appearance, as with any lycanthrope.
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Creative Director
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And Adam just came in and yelled at me.
This isn't a place to answer questions. That's for later. We're just making sure we've got our bases covered.
FULL DISCLOSURE: We're doing a six page of "Ecology of the Android" in volume one of Iron Gods, and it looks like about 90% of the questions folks are eager to see answers two were already covered in the article. It's that last 10% that we're adding to.
There'll be other places where we're talking about androids as well.
But this isn't yet the point or place to actually have us provide answers.
MORE FULL DISCLOSURE: Androids are NOT robots covered by skin. That's more like the terminator. That's an entirely different monster than an android. Androids are more like what you see in Alien/Aliens/Prometheus or Blade Runner... but a tiny step even closer to organic. Not QUITE the level of being a clone... but they're closer to being clones than they are to being robots.
Hence the fact that their monster type is humanoid, not construct.
Because we WANT them to be PC race options that are fairly close to the standard, and making them a full on construct would blow that out of the water.
AND FINALLY: If folks are interested in debating that last paragraph, this isn't the thread to do so!
NOW... back to letting us know what you wanna know about androids so we can make sure we're not leaving stones unturned in that forthcoming article.
Because we WANT them to be PC race options that are fairly close to the standard, and making them a full on construct would blow that out of the water.
I understand that for balance issues, they can't be "full on constructs".
Still I was hoping for something vastly different than your average biological life form.I'm afraid I'm going from interested in how they would be portrayed...to rapidly loosing interest
AND FINALLY: If folks are interested in debating that last paragraph, this isn't the thread to do so!
NOW... back to letting us know what you wanna know about androids so we can make sure we're not leaving stones unturned in that forthcoming article.
As the OP of the thread, has it been confiscated....do I need to start another ?
Assuming I wish to debate the direction the Andriod is going :)|
Creative Director
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Because we WANT them to be PC race options that are fairly close to the standard, and making them a full on construct would blow that out of the water.I understand that for balance issues, they can't be "full on constructs".
Still I was hoping for something vastly different than your average biological life form. I'm afraid I'm going from interested in how they would be portrayed...to rapidly loosing interestAND FINALLY: If folks are interested in debating that last paragraph, this isn't the thread to do so!
NOW... back to letting us know what you wanna know about androids so we can make sure we're not leaving stones unturned in that forthcoming article.
As the OP of the thread, has it been confiscated....do I need to start another ?
Assuming I wish to debate the direction the Andriod is going :)
If you want to debate android development, yes, since this thread is "Will there be an android article?" and that's been answered.
NOTE: We've already done a lot of work on androids and changing them significantly at this point would require rewriting and rebuilding of significant portions of the Iron Gods AP, since androids play a few quite important roles in the AP, so debate all you want... but we know what we want them to be.
It sounds like the type of creature you're looking for—a robot built to look like a humanoid—is not an android, but a different type of creature entirely; something more akin to a terminator.
We will have rules for that kind of monster at some point during Iron Gods. They're not androids though. Nor are they going to be appropriate choices for player characters.
An android is exactly a robot built like a human. The "androids" that the PCs can play as are more akin to "test tube babies jacked full of nanites".
And not for the sake of debate....but simply to express a thought.
The Andriods in Aliens and Promethius was in no danger of being used as hosts because their synthetic biology was not compatible with the aliens which required an organic host.
I see no difference between that, and their not being compatable with things like lycanthropsy and undeath....or cross breeding with organic races.
All of those effects require a natural organic host...which I was hoping the andriod would not be.
If you want to debate android development, yes, since this thread is "Will there be an android article?" and that's been answered.NOTE: We've already done a lot of work on androids and changing them significantly at this point would require rewriting and rebuilding of significant portions of the Iron Gods AP, since androids play a few quite important roles in the AP, so debate all you want... but we know what we want them to be.
It sounds like the type of creature you're looking for—a robot built to look like a humanoid—is not an android, but a different type of creature entirely; something more akin to a terminator.
We will have rules for that kind of monster at some point during Iron Gods. They're not androids though. Nor are they going to be appropriate choices for player characters.
Fair enough.
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I don't think upping the tech-ness of androids necessarily needs to push them into Construct territory and making them less PC-viable.
That's looking like what I'm going to do with androids in my games, because I want to have circuitry and plastics and souls tied to silicon and synthflesh rather than organic flesh. I wouldn't want to see that concept bound by the Construct or Half-Construct paradigms put forth in the ARG(soulless, overloaded for a PC race, etc.).
Too little techiness, and it winds up not delivering what most folks may want from the Android name. I know for many it was looking to scratch the itch they had for a Warforged/Gearforged-style race, while others are coming at it with expectations similar to Data or other such androids, often somewhere between Data and Ash/Bishop/David. More human than the Aliens/Prometheus androids, and it starts to lose a lot of the appeal.
really wants luminescent circuitry in his android's irises
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As for the soul thing, they have one because they can be raised from the dead, so I guess the process that makes them gives them a soul, maybe it's a magic thing?
I was wondering if it might be an automatic process of the multiverse. Like any living being automatically getting a soul, whether their origins are natural or artificial.
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Creative Director
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Too little techiness, and it winds up not delivering what most folks may want from the Android name. I know for many it was looking to scratch the itch they had for a Warforged/Gearforged-style race, while others are coming at it with expectations similar to Data or other such androids, often somewhere between Data and Ash/Bishop/David.
Fair enough. Only the android was never intended to be a "warforged replacement" at all. I guess the closest we've come to doing something like that would probably be the wyrwood.
Androids in Golarion are mostly an update on the Warforged rules mechanics.
In terms of story effect they're the human-form Cylons from the newest Battlestar Galactica.
They're engineered organics who are not entirely sure why they were created.
Questions!
Can a significant enough emotional trauma alter an Android's Emotionless trait in story-terms?
Is their emotionless trait more a form of deficiency in capability or a lack of acclimation to a type of interaction?
Will you be introducing Alternate Racial traits?! (Please say yes. I want an emotional Android Barbie!)
Do Androids appear in a specific part of Numeria more frequently than any other?
Are they actively sought by a government agency or other body who attempts to co-opt newly found Androids? (A slavers guild, Android-Integration Committee, etc. Who fights for those just born?)
When an android is formed does it come with standard equipment? (Are they normally found insensible in a one piece silver jumpsuit, with a Technic gadget that indicates true north and also counts as a tool kit? (As an example.))
Do Android tattoos ever glow in alternate colors?
When an Android is 'found' in the world do they appear insensate until interacted with or 'wake up' somewhere?
Are some Androids racially inclined to interact proactively with other androids or species?
Do Androids ever exhibit racial memory in the form of preferred methods of doing things or otherwise unrealized knowledge that would indicate a past profession or purpose.
Do some Androids feel compelled to enter careers or perform certain labors? (An android who works as a blacksmith because he feels compelled in some way to form metal.) Are there Androids who rebel against such self-suggestions?
So many questions!
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Too little techiness, and it winds up not delivering what most folks may want from the Android name. I know for many it was looking to scratch the itch they had for a Warforged/Gearforged-style race, while others are coming at it with expectations similar to Data or other such androids, often somewhere between Data and Ash/Bishop/David.Fair enough. Only the android was never intended to be a "warforged replacement" at all. I guess the closest we've come to doing something like that would probably be the wyrwood.
I'm not meaning to imply that folks were taking the android as a warforged replacement, but that it scratched a very similar itch at first glance for folks that wanted to play a fantasy robot/android person. :)
I actually think Kobold Press' gearforged do a better job of "fantasy robot people" better, though androids, going off of what's presented in the Inner Sea Bestiary, does a better job for folks looking for "futuristic artiifical human" flavor.
I don't think upping the tech-ness of androids necessarily needs to push them into Construct territory and making them less PC-viable.
Agreed...In fact I thought that was where they where going with this, based on earlier comments made.
Seems I was mistaken.Too little techiness, and it winds up not delivering what most folks may want from the Android name. I know for many it was looking to scratch the itch they had for a Warforged/Gearforged-style race, while others are coming at it with expectations similar to Data or other such androids, often somewhere between Data and Ash/Bishop/David. More human than the Aliens/Prometheus androids, and it starts to lose a lot of the appeal.
really wants luminescent circuitry in his android's irises
I was looking for something pretty much on par with the Bladerunner and Aliens androids. Even Data (whom I love by the way) was a bit to tech for a fantasy setting (IMO).
Test tube humans with nanites in their bloodstream......just doesn't do it for me.
Never liked warforged for that matter....although that was as much based on artistic asthetic as anything....they look corny ;)
What are talking about Mythic Rysky?
A lot of good questions there ABCoLD.
Now that it is official that the Paladin and Monk can now be effected by Lycanthropy unlike in 3.5 then that is a game changer. Still doesn't make sense why lycanthropy can be cured by remove disease and not remove curse.
Are androids made using the captured people that the annihilator collects?
I am fine with biomechanical with nanites.
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As for the soul thing, they have one because they can be raised from the dead, so I guess the process that makes them gives them a soul, maybe it's a magic thing?I was wondering if it might be an automatic process of the multiverse. Like any living being automatically getting a soul, whether their origins are natural or artificial.
@ Dragon78: I was referencing this, and when I said witch hunter I was meaning someone on a witch hunt, not someone who hunts witches. Needs some fixy fixy.
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RPG Superstar 2008 Top 6, Contributor
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Paizo's version of android is well within the accepted history of the term. It's best used to refer to any human-appearing artificial construct, whether that construct is mechanical or biological varies based on the story. I prefer android to be the latter, like in Blade Runner, rather than the former, like in Terminator.
Paizo's version of android is well within the accepted history of the term. It's best used to refer to any human-appearing artificial construct, whether that construct is mechanical or biological varies based on the story. I prefer android to be the latter, like in Blade Runner, rather than the former, like in Terminator.
I prefer the idea of a Bladerunner type Android myself....just can't see one of them becoming undead or a lycanthrope either ;)
There is a chance, yes.
Is that chance significantly high? Absolutely.
Prediction : April Fool's Day, free pdf, all in binary.
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RPG Superstar 2008 Top 6, Contributor
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I prefer the idea of a Bladerunner type Android myself....just can't see one of them becoming undead or a lycanthrope either ;)
Why, may I ask?
They were such convincing synthetics that you had to use a psychological test to tell the difference. Arguably, more human than a Numerian android.
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MORE FULL DISCLOSURE: Androids are NOT robots covered by skin. That's more like the terminator. That's an entirely different monster than an android. Androids are more like what you see in Alien/Aliens/Prometheus or Blade Runner... but a tiny step even closer to organic. Not QUITE the level of being a clone... but they're closer to being clones than they are to being robots.
So Androids are kind of synthetic biological constructs then? Like the humanoid cylons on Battlestar Galactica?
As for the soul thing, they have one because they can be raised from the dead, so I guess the process that makes them gives them a soul, maybe it's a magic thing?I was wondering if it might be an automatic process of the multiverse. Like any living being automatically getting a soul, whether their origins are natural or artificial.
An aside, I know, but does a flesh golem that becomes self aware gain a soul?
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An aside, I know, but does a flesh golem that becomes self aware gain a soul?
And is that soul separate from any it might already have running around inside it (from the trapped elementals powering it), or is it made up from them?
And is there some way to 'kill' a golem by using a dismissal spell to exorcise it's elemental power source, or does the golem's body block line-of-effect? Can one use protection from X to prevent the golem-maker from commanding the elemental spirits to make the golem attack?
Golarion needs some sort of fantasy Jesuits to get all up in this theosophical discoursifying.
"How many lantern archons can dance on the head of a pin?"
"Depends, is it mithril or adamantine?"
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Creative Director
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MORE FULL DISCLOSURE: Androids are NOT robots covered by skin. That's more like the terminator. That's an entirely different monster than an android. Androids are more like what you see in Alien/Aliens/Prometheus or Blade Runner... but a tiny step even closer to organic. Not QUITE the level of being a clone... but they're closer to being clones than they are to being robots.So Androids are kind of synthetic biological constructs then? Like the humanoid cylons on Battlestar Galactica?
Not quite as far as a humanoid cylon, but sort of. Their parts are still all artificial. Their flesh doesn't rot when they die, it just sort of gets crumbly like old cheap plastic and rubber. And when you cut them open, it's obvious they're not human on the inside; their blood's a different color and their entrails are less realistic than their outsides are. They live a lot longer than the Blade Runner replicants, but otherwise comparing them to the replicants is pretty on-par, frankly. And comparing them to the androids from Alien and those movies is even closer, since that's their primary inspiration. Data is NOT one of the inspirations; he's more on the obviously not human side of android and he's way smarter and stronger than a human—if we were to put something like Data into the game, we'd call it something else (if only "greater android") and give him MUCH better stat mods and resistances and the like... and as such, he'd be entirely inappropriate as a PC.
One of the things those androids never had to deal with was how supernatural stuff interacts with them... and that's the point it seems that some folks are having issues with. Just because our androids exist in a world with magic doesn't make them less of an android than those who exist elsewhere.
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Creative Director
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An aside, I know, but does a flesh golem that becomes self aware gain a soul?As for the soul thing, they have one because they can be raised from the dead, so I guess the process that makes them gives them a soul, maybe it's a magic thing?I was wondering if it might be an automatic process of the multiverse. Like any living being automatically getting a soul, whether their origins are natural or artificial.
Yes. In fact, in a way, ALL golems have a soul, since the elemental spirit that is used to power and animate them is pretty much just that.