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When you start a new rpg game/campaign how do you like to get the characters into a group?
Do you like to have all or most of the characters to have some type of connection so forming group is easier?
What in your opinion is the best way to form a party and what was the worst way you seen used?
And Jim this is nothing against you, you did well getting the party together or at least as well as you could with what you had (playerwise) to work with.
We just started a new campaign (age of worms) and Jim our GM had this plan to get the group together, but of course the lynchpin player was a last minute no show. The RL monster got her!
The worst way is the old "go to the tavern" cliche. I audibly groan anytime someone tells me how their game started with everybody meeting at a tavern.
My favourite is a marked by fate style, where each character finds they have some mysterious thing in common, like a strange birthmark, or being foundings left with a plain metal ring inscribed with forgotten script. Only appropriate for a chosen ones kind of game, but I enjoy running those.
My most commonly used introduction is the mercenary band. Where the players are all either offered a job, or begin on the assignment. If players want to establish history between their characters in addition, that's fine.
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I usually have some characters know another character, and then have the circumstances force them to work together or die/get imprisoned/robbed etc.
After that, party usually comes together.
I don't see what's so wrong with you all meet at the tavern where a mysterious dude in a cloak and hood gives you a quest. It's a staple of fantasy gaming. It's also fun, especially for new players.
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I like the way FATE does it - during character creation, you basically come up with a story that happened to your character prior to the start of the campaign, then everyone guest stars in two other people's stories. You get an Aspect based on your own story and each of your guest spots, which is a central part of your character going forward. The party starts out already knowing one another through with all kinds of relationships that way.
We always do basic character background and build concepts as a group - and it's pretty much a table rule that someone knows at least one other person in the group. So when whatever starts them off, they are all are at least "friend of a friend" going it. That helps a lot.
I also like how Fate handles it too.
My most commonly used introduction is the mercenary band. Where the players are all either offered a job, or begin on the assignment. If players want to establish history between their characters in addition, that's fine.
^This, usually.
That or they're forced together by other circumstances, depending on the game. Being stuck on a deserted island with 3 other people tends to make those people band together. Much like being part of a "new batch" of captive slaves or whatever.
For my current campaign I had the players weave together their backgrounds, with at least two other players but reading over the FATE system version I will follow that for the next group.
The first sit-down session the characters met at their common hang out which happens to be a tavern (in a medieval/early Renaissance flavored campaign...where else are people going to gather to relax, gossip, etc. Ale's safer than the water) but this was just a 30 minute game session tacked onto the end of our other DM's game session. No dark figures teleporting them into a dungeon or anything like that. These 30 minutes were just spent role-playing their characters with each other to help them establish personalities as well as allowing me to introduce "regular" NPCs and help set tone.
The first actual adventure occurred the next game session at a party at one of the character's parent's manor house.
I like characters coming together out of adversity. A fire spreading through town; a cry for help along the roadside; rats bursting from the sewers in the market. You jump immediately into a fight scene/action scene, the players can see a little of what each other PC can do/is like, and once the event is over there's still the ability for PCs to leave at will so the players don't feel locked in by fate/plot/circumstance to stick with the same character.
Currently running Kingmaker - that was an easy one, everyone's on the charter together.
Ran a couple of short-lived games where the party were all gathered up to investigate a problem in the same locale.
I've done the marked by fate thing once, by having a powerful villain geas the players all to the same quest.
I've done a time-traveling game where the party all got scooped up by the traveling artifact, and stuck together because they were the only people they knew as they hopped through various points in the timeline.
And of course there's always the good old fashioned "Everyone hired by the same employer to do X job" method.
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Most of the ones I've been in have been started by the simple old, you have been hired by X to do Y, here are the other people they hired. Which has proved fun because there is no basis of assumption that you need to like each other, being horrible to each other is one of the main pillars of fun :3
There's also the good old, you are all conveniently in the same place when X happens and you all are forced to work together to solve it. Such as your all passangers on a ship when people start to vanish, you're all attending the local fair when it's attacked by goblins, you're all waiting in line to be executed when suddenly a dragon... and so on.
"Roll to hit."
The usual response is "What?"
"Roll to hit. There's a goblin/skeleton/bear attacking you."
Again with the "What?"
"Do you want to spend your round looking around and figuing things out?"
After the combat, I let the players tell me how they met each other, and why they decided to come to the Caverns of Tremendous Doom (or whatever other named location I've placed them.
Let the players do some creative work for once. I spent all my creativity on working on the adventure, starting location, and NPCs.
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The worst way is the old "go to the tavern" cliche. I audibly groan anytime someone tells me how their game started with everybody meeting at a tavern.
I had a fantastic GM start his game like this...we all groaned.
And then like the great storyteller he is he turned the cliché on its head. The city was hit by an massive earthquake and the entire tavern tumbled into a sinkhole and the only able bodied survivors were the heroes who had to traverse some tunnels under the city.
It was a great set up.
-MD
When starting a new campaign, I tell the players to design their backstories such that their PC will be at the start location at the right time. Depending on the nature of the campaign, I may include other requirements, such as putting together my own Campaign Traits list, complete with customized descriptions that include campaign-specific flavor.
However, I do try to keep things as vague as possible.
A published example of how I like to start a campaign is like how the "Rise of the Runelords" adventure path begins. I tell the PCs that they need to have a reason to be in the town of Sandpoint for the annual Labor Day Picnic Swallowtail Festival. Why they're there, and whether they know each other beforehand is up to them.
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Since I usually have players start out with level 2 or 3 characters, I just use the "you know each other either first hand or by reputation". We've been at this stuff for nearly 30 years and rarely get the chance to play anymore so we just skip the preliminary meeting of characters and go right to business.
I like a short "getting together" scene at the beginning, instead of just saying that everyone is friends. The reason is not only to give everyone a chance to represent their character, but also a chance to get to know each other. Especially if you play with new players in the group, a short introduction scene can help everyone eyeballing each other.
Example: This game started in the wilderness, along the main traveling road of the kingdom. The three players (I knew all of them, but we had never played all at one table) arrived separately at this waystation for the king's gallopers, and each of them saw a slightly different scene and picked up different clues about the weird merchant camping at the stables. Without me actually forcing anything story-wise, they bonded at the evening campfire, conspired against the merchant, decided to break into the gallopers vault and read some messages (I didn't prepare for this and had to adapt on the fly), and suspected the hooded creature speaking to the guardsmen being a cultist or something (he was a satyr selling booze to the guards, and he survived their suspicions only by a few hp). One players was the agitator, one was the enabler, and the third did some pretty hilarious random stuff, so it mixed very well.The players set up so many cool story hooks themselves, I had to re-write a lot of the adventure, but I did happily so.
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When I was running the first rise of the rune lords I had each player have a various aspect that took them to Sandport so a different reason.
Cavalier (aspiring hellknight): went because his "lord" wanted him to investigate that part of Varisia because Cheliax was planning to push further colonization in the near future and understanding teh locals would help them succeed.
Bard: the festival would allow him to make extra coin and hear new stories to pass along, furthering his knowledge of different ares and the culture.
Fighter: He was traveling with his family (all of whom died in the first goblin raid).
Cleric: While the festival wasn't for his church, he was to go and help with the celebration as a sign of good faith in order to strengthen ties between the Church of Desna and his deity (but also establish his deity as viable alternative to Desna)
The events of that happened throughout the adventure made them a cohesive party.
My group's about to start RotRL as well. My character's a missionary and historian, who dragged her sister along for the ride, so that gets the two of us involved. We're not yet sure what the third guy is going to be though.
"You wake up imprisoned with none of your stuff," is the worst, IMO, but even that's okay if players are aware and on board with how things start.
I've seen "you are all from the same town," "you are all members of the same organization," and "you're all looking for the same McGuffin," amongst similar themes.
I've also seen simply, "you all know each other, work out how amongst yourselves." I've seen that work well, but I've also seen it backfire horribly. In the latter case, the issue was the GM... we would start talking about how we know each other, and then the GM would say, "No wait that won't work because of plot reasons." So then we'd ask for guidelines for what work and he'd refuse to tell us because he didn't want to give away the plot. Then we'd come up with something else and he'd nix it, and we'd ask him for suggestions, and he'd say "No, I want you to do this yourselves." I bailed during the process, and the game imploded shortly thereafter. The GM is aware he is the one who wrecked it and I trust him to learn from his mistakes.
So a GM-player contract needs to be solid for that to work.
I'll also throw a bone to ye old tavern start. It can be fun, and it's a nice public yet enclosed space for all kinds of mayhem to happen.
The BEST start I ever personally experienced was a GM (Orfamay Quest here on the boards) who began the game with, "You have 10 seconds to explain why the Imperial Stormtroopers are chasing you. Go."
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The BEST start I ever personally experienced was a GM (Orfamay Quest here on the boards) who began the game with, "You have 10 seconds to explain why the Imperial Stormtroopers are chasing you. Go."
That's a specific one of my players' favorites. Starting the first session with "Roll initiative." followed by "You are under attack by (number) (things)." and then after the combat either explaining why or letting us give/guess reasons for it.
I did "You're all in the tavern together" exactly 3 times. Once when I was very young, once in HS, and once again in college w/the same players. That last time, since I'd done it ONCE before w/those same gamers they facepalmed and rolled their eyes. "Not THAT old schtick again!" I was like "What, I've only done this ONCE!"
Anyway, another more memorable one was a 3 man campaign. It just so happened that one of the players wanted to be a notorious thief and another one wanted his PC to be working for some noble, so it started like this:
(to the rogue) It was supposed to be an easy job. You were to hit the stables where the merchant lord keeps his cartage and horses. The place was left accessible for you exactly as planned. But someone changed the plan. You now find yourself in the stables with a rope and minimal gear; 2 men are after you.
(to the fighter and ranger) the two of you have known each other in passing but you Tarkev (fighter) have finally secured your position with the merchant lord. A tip from one of the lord's other retainers told you that tonight your master's stable would be robbed. The merchant is not as wealthy as others and he couldn't afford backup for you, but you called upon your ranger friend for aid. Now you're in the stables, after a notorious criminal in the service of your employer.
So the PCs found each other after the rogue used his rope and the rafters of the place to try and strangle the fighter. The rogue bargained for his life, the ranger found some strange clues, and they together uncovered the fact that an evil fey presence had infiltrated the minor noble's retainers. Stopping that became their first adventure together.
"You wake up imprisoned with none of your stuff," is the worst, IMO, but even that's okay if players are aware and on board with how things start.
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- I have used that only once, but I joke about it a few times. The last iteration was when I had a bunch (ten total, nine in session, all new to Pathfinder) of new players and they asked how much starting gold and equipment they had. I said, "It doesn't matter, you're all prisoners anyway." They had never run with me before and the joke did not go over well at first (they came around when they realized it WAS a joke - and, they really are a great group of intelligent and HILARIOUSLY funny players).
- I usually have some time to work with the players before our first monthly meetings (and, when we move from one set of characters to another, I have a month to prepare). I have a message board set up and a set of forums. Each player has a specific set of permissions and access. Over the month I can work with each one over the Internet and flesh out their back-story and work up how they end up at the target location. This also sets player up with “stories” to tell each other while gaming and give each one a few tales to tell about why they choose a path / feat / etc. Sometimes we can play out their backgrounds, traits, or feats (background or story). I usually throw in cameos from the other PCs – usually just an appearance or very light interaction.
- If I am pressed for time then I would go around the table and ask what the character is doing and for their short and long term goals. I can usually work something out with that and my players usually don’t mind working through that as part of the story. Of course, this is really time consuming, especially for large groups.
- -Doomn
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The one I've always wanted to do was:
"You were heroes. You were going to stop the evil necromancer."
"You didn't."
"You wake up. You're in his castle, but you immediately get the sense it's abandoned. You're equipped with the standard, sparse equipment of a mindless soldier*. And you're undead. You don't know how long you've been like this, or how you've regained your mind. You somehow recognize your former companions, despite their new, twisted appearances."
"What do you do now?"
The one I've always wanted to do was:
"You were heroes. You were going to stop the evil necromancer."
"You didn't."
"You wake up. You're in his castle, but you immediately get the sense it's abandoned. You're equipped with the standard, sparse equipment of a mindless soldier*. And you're undead. You don't know how long you've been like this, or how you've regained your mind. You somehow recognize your former companions, despite their new, twisted appearances."
"What do you do now?"
** spoiler omitted **
Undead is so easy though. I'd rather do a complete variable. Give each of the PCs a random SLA or special attack/defense, then have it run like:
You come to. The air is cold; sterile. You are bound to a table, one of several in an operating theater of sorts here in the depths of the dungeon. Then you chance to glance down at yourself, and realize with dawning horror what you've become...
Have an evil alchemist/arcanist/whatever operate on them and graft something to them. Hilarity ensues.
The one I've always wanted to do was:
"You were heroes. You were going to stop the evil necromancer."
"You didn't."
"You wake up. You're in his castle, but you immediately get the sense it's abandoned. You're equipped with the standard, sparse equipment of a mindless soldier*. And you're undead. You don't know how long you've been like this, or how you've regained your mind. You somehow recognize your former companions, despite their new, twisted appearances."
"What do you do now?"
** spoiler omitted **
Undead is so easy though. I'd rather do a complete variable. Give each of the PCs a random SLA or special attack/defense, then have it run like:
You come to. The air is cold; sterile. You are bound to a table, one of several in an operating theater of sorts here in the depths of the dungeon. Then you chance to glance down at yourself, and realize with dawning horror what you've become...
Have an evil alchemist/arcanist/whatever operate on them and graft something to them. Hilarity ensues.
Random eidolon evolutions every now and then would be a pretty good way to handle that. GM picks the first couple, but after a while the players get a handle on their own mutations and can start picking their own. Something like that?
Or heck, combine the two. The necromancer makes them undead so they'd be loyal, controllable servants, then "enhances" them in his lab. Then the players wake up, find themselves not only undead but horribly mutated to boot - so even the ones with the less-disfiguring undead forms like vampire or ghoul are unrecognizable as the person they used to be.
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I feel fortunate with my homegroup in that the coming together rarely needs to be worked on. Most of the time the PCs will put at least minimal effort in having a few intertwined backstories that it doesn't become an issue. Not saying there haven't ever been problems but usually works. Plus it takes a certain amount of effort off of whoever is running the game, which is a plus. GM burnout is all too common a concern.
I like the way FATE does it - during character creation, you basically come up with a story that happened to your character prior to the start of the campaign, then everyone guest stars in two other people's stories. You get an Aspect based on your own story and each of your guest spots, which is a central part of your character going forward. The party starts out already knowing one another through with all kinds of relationships that way.
+1
It's so much easier that way.
But every once in a while, a tavern brawl is fun too. ;-)
"You wake up imprisoned with none of your stuff," is the worst, IMO, but even that's okay if players are aware and on board with how things start.
And yet a number of Adventure Paths (not all Paizo, sure, but still) like to use this one. Skull and Shackles and Way of the Wicked off the top of my head.
It's a very tempting one to use, and as you said it's not all bad.
Personally I think "You were hired to do blablabla, you all know each other" is the WORST one.
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"You wake up imprisoned with none of your stuff," is the worst, IMO, but even that's okay if players are aware and on board with how things start.
I'm actually surprised at the reactions to this one. The starting with nothing and imprisoned is one of my favorite starts as a player (though it's only been use don me in APs).
"You wake up imprisoned with none of your stuff," is the worst, IMO, but even that's okay if players are aware and on board with how things start.And yet a number of Adventure Paths (not all Paizo, sure, but still) like to use this one. Skull and Shackles and Way of the Wicked off the top of my head.
Serpent's Skull too, just replaced "imprisoned" with "marooned on a deserted island".
Serpent's Skull too, just replaced "imprisoned" with "marooned on a deserted island"."You wake up imprisoned with none of your stuff," is the worst, IMO, but even that's okay if players are aware and on board with how things start.And yet a number of Adventure Paths (not all Paizo, sure, but still) like to use this one. Skull and Shackles and Way of the Wicked off the top of my head.
I didn't use Serpent's Skull because you wake up with all your stuff. =)
At least we did when I played in it.
Back in my days as a new and often bungling DM, I once made a new player wait 4 sessions before joining the party so he'd come in at "just the right time". Thing is, he had to be present at the games and not participate so he'd know what was going on, story wise and mechanics wise.
I really sucked back in those earliest days.
Some of the starts for new/reshuffled parties:
- All characters were members of the same organization and had to investigate something (obvious).
- The characters woke up in medbay of a ship only to learn that they were found in escape pod near the wreckage of a passenger spaceship on which they traveled - they didn't remember the details of their rescue because of short-term memory loss caused by lack of oxygen and shock.
- All the characters were travelling by a sea ship to a town that send a call to adventurers and, while closing to the town defended the ship from an undead attack. Afterwards they determined that they might form an adventuring party together due to their complementary skills.
- A group of mages from various places were contacted by a law firm and learned that they inherited a shared ownership of a manor in a remote (fictional) town in Washington. Once there, they learned that the manor was owned by a group of mages that vanished without trace, the PCs were selected to inherit through divinations performed by one of the mages and that there is something terribly wrong with the town... Regretfully the game never went past first session.
- The party members are invited to their distant estranged uncle manor and learn that the uncle is dying while learning that the house, the uncle and their past, long forgotten vacations in the house hold arcane secrets.
Just wondering...
Personally I think "You were hired to do blablabla, you all know each other" is the WORST one.
Wondering...?
Was wondering why you think this character intro is the worst.
It just assumes a lot, and limits character backgrounds a ton. You basically need to have everybody having been born in or have been living in the same area for a long time, and they start off working together (implying a friendship or at least business relationship).
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It just assumes a lot, and limits character backgrounds a ton. You basically need to have everybody having been born in or have been living in the same area for a long time, and they start off working together (implying a friendship or at least business relationship).Was wondering why you think this character intro is the worst.
I agree.
I believe this intro option is used mostly by groups who like more rollplay then roleplay.
It just assumes a lot, and limits character backgrounds a ton. You basically need to have everybody having been born in or have been living in the same area for a long time, and they start off working together (implying a friendship or at least business relationship).Was wondering why you think this character intro is the worst.
I agree.
I believe this intro option is used mostly by groups who like more rollplay then roleplay.
I'll have to tell my heavily roleplay oriented group that we did it wrong since we started my latest campaign that way. I'll also tell them we are having wrongbadfun and should stop playing immediately.
You don't have to let it limit your character background. If a gamer can't figure out how to add a sentence at the end of the PC's background that says, "And then he came to X town and met the party" then I would posit such a gamer is not smart or creative enough to be good at writing character backgrounds. So there! ;p
In seriousness, if you have an awesome background and don't know how to make it work with the games's set up, the GM and players should be able to work with you to find a way to make it work, rather than make the player feel restricted. At most it should add onto a background, rather than limit it.
"You wake up imprisoned with none of your stuff," is the worst, IMO, but even that's okay if players are aware and on board with how things start.And yet a number of Adventure Paths (not all Paizo, sure, but still) like to use this one. Skull and Shackles and Way of the Wicked off the top of my head.
It's a very tempting one to use, and as you said it's not all bad.
I think it's a more overused and less flexible cliche than the tavern personally, and the fact that multiple APs use it prove that it's overused. I don't think the beginnings of those APs are actually very well written. I own Skull and Shackles and if I ever run it, I will be starting it off a different way.
"You wake up imprisoned with none of your stuff," is the worst, IMO, but even that's okay if players are aware and on board with how things start.I'm actually surprised at the reactions to this one. The starting with nothing and imprisoned is one of my favorite starts as a player (though it's only been use don me in APs).
I hate it because it starts off by taking away player agency. I don't want the players to feel powerless immediately, I feel like it sets them up to feel like I am always working against them (rather than the villianous PCs). I want the players to have had the chance to win that fight or fight off that poison or whatever fair and square. And if they win, I'll find another plot thread to make the story work.
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It just assumes a lot, and limits character backgrounds a ton. You basically need to have everybody having been born in or have been living in the same area for a long time, and they start off working together (implying a friendship or at least business relationship).
I agree.
I believe this intro option is used mostly by groups who like more rollplay then roleplay.I'll have to tell my heavily roleplay oriented group that we did it wrong since we started my latest campaign that way. I'll also tell them we are having wrongbadfun and should stop playing immediately.
Never said it was wrong and Rynjin just said in his opinion it was the worst.
Nobody said 'THATS WRONG!','YOU DO IT THAT WAY YOUR HAVING WRONGBADFUN'
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Trying to create a dichotomy between "roleplay" and "rollplay" 99.999999% of the time is meant to be adversarial.
Using the word "Rollplay": Not even once.
"You wake up, with all of your stuff, and you're in bed with three strangers..." *points to indicate the party are all sharing the same bed*
"All you remember from last night is something about a job and drinking some ale."
Let the players fill in the rest.
Or...
"You've all been assigned to work together as community service..."