Hello
This is my first post on Paizo forums and I hope I'm not breaking any basic rules with this topic. If so, remove it please.
Anyway I've been GM since 2000 (AD&D, D&D, CoC, 7th sea, Witcher etc.).
A little bit more than year ago I started running Pathfinder campaign and it became one of my best projects. I'm one session away from becoming longest campaign. Unfortunately while I thought that I saw everything in my life of gaming I recently come to conclusion that there is a lot of improvement I should make to the way I handle many things. At first I wanted to just stalk various forums as usual, but while very educating in most cases I couldn't simply convert it to my campaign.
TL,DR: I'm not a noob anymore but still have a lot of doubts and problems. I would like to use this thread to formulate them and hope for the best from you.
I will post first thing in new post - if there will be no responses I promise not bumping this thread and let it die peacefully.
If you are interested in the background of my campaign we have website (polish version) and Tv Tropes page (in english)
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Roleplay/InterestingTimes
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Characters/InterestingTimes
I created my own micro world (one realm) that lies in some unspecified place in Golarion.
So the first thing I wanted to ask are my two ideas on mechanics which seem to me to simplified to be fun. I always try not to meddle with rules extensively but I was thinking about incorporating two new mechanics on old things.
1)Traps
I know there dozens of traps & perception threads and some of them gave me really interesting ideas. I really like that one:
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2pbi0?Making-Traps-Work-Like-Haunts
But the problem of checking every square when there is no time pressure still persist. Since I try to put traps in meaningful places - where the colors of floor change, in the gates, near some glowing runes etc. players mostly check those. But when occasionally they don't catch one of this places in my description, fall into trap and then become paranoid trap-finders for the next hour. I was thinking about incorporating simple mechanic. Each active "search-type" perception check that they declare, that does not find anything, gives cumulative -1 to next active checks, till something will be found (trap, treasure, secret passage). This will represent tiring effect of futile repetitive action. -1 for skill checks with bonus around +15 is not much, but they would stop checking every single square.
2)Identifying magical items
I really try to avoid simple magical items like just "Flaming Sword +2" - I try to invent some backstory which hints about it's powers and value. But there is not much need to look through libraries or talk to Sages when one skill check (Spellcraft) is all that is needed. So I thought I will split identifying magical items into 3+ checks
a)Spellcraft check gives you information about aura and some/all spells used to make item
b)Linguistics check gives you information on text and symbols on blade, it's possible origin, where to look for information etc.
c)Appraise/Craft check gives you information about price of the materials which correlates with it's magical power
d)Sometimes specific skill check (knowledge, survival etc.) reveals additional details.
DO IT! If it works keep it, if not drop it. It's your game; you are allowed to alter things in the game even the RAW saids to alter the rule to better suit you. Tell your players that you trying a new system for traps and magic item id. It's only fair to warn them that the rules are being modified.
Traps working like haunts actully sounds pretty good Mr. Fishy might poach that one for his game.
As for the magic items, Mr. Fishy changed the basic weapon quaility rules. Master work became
Fine (+1 to hit +300gp weapon),
Remarkable (+1/+1 hit/damage +600),
Masterwork (+1/+1 hit/damage counts as +1 weapon, requires master craftsman feat to create, 1200)
Had a whole write up for armor and shields too. Masterwork weapons and armor were always forged legendary smiths and carried a history. Some were enchanted but had to be waken to a new wielder, unlocking magical powers.
Add item to loot and adventure hook to item. There is no wrong way to play as long as your table enjoys the game.
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If you put in traps your players will look for traps and the paranoid trap finder response is fairly common. Back in 1st edition traps were so common and deadly that it was the normal way of things.
I think that a cumulative penalty is the wrong way to go about it.
The way I handle it is to have the players make ten perception checks in advance and write them on a sheet. We assume they are being moderately careful and when they approach a trap I use a pre-rolled check to see if they notice anything. I cross off that roll and tell them what they see.
By telling your players that you assume they will be moderately careful and at least looking out for unusual things you save on game time lost to paranoid trap finding. The pre-rolls let them still have a chance to notice traps when you feel it is appropriate.
A few alternate ideas:
1) You could have the players give you their perception and you roll when appropriate. If you do a lot of secret unexplained rolls this is actually nice. It also lets you roll when you just want to make them a little paranoid.
2) You could make the rogue Trap Spotter talent a feat. Sure, rogues already have it tough but it might help with your issue.
3) You could make a few traps more obvious but tougher to disarm. I have seen puzzles, knowledge checks, requiring certain spells, requiring disguising yourself to approach. You will need to telegraph this a bit. Maybe leave certain robes in a room before the trap that requires disguising yourself as a dwarven cleric.
4) Have a few traps that you can place anywhere. When your players get paranoid then stick the trap in after a high roll. They feel like they found a trap and relax or become even more paranoid.
Thanks for the responses
@Mr Fishy
Thanks for encouragement - I would be interested what you think about the idea of cumulative penalty for perception. I was thinking about introducing more variants of masterwork items (not only weapons) with necessary level of craftsmanship for level o magical powers.
@Karkon
I usually don't run much dungeons - let's 1 in 4 adventures. I normally allowed everybody a check (within a reason) but this made situation more like trying not to catch a cold with fortitude saves than looking for traps. I think traps are to essential to not give the any choices. Since then I started making places for traps more easy to guess. I will give an example of my problem.
Room 01
Me:"You see broken table made from fine oak blood stained carpet and several paintings on the walls. Unusual for this bare fortress, but sculpture of hydra heads looming over fireplace reminds you about this place nature"
Players: "Hmm... We better check the carpet and those heads too..."
Me: "[Roll] you noticed metal tubes in hydras mouths, no doubt ready to pumps some sort of gas..."
Players: "Great. We disable it"
Room 02
Me:"Beyond the portal crafted into cloud-like form you see altar made from blue stone that faintly glows. Sword in the sheath levitates over it. Before it lay many human bones, charted by some devious magic"
Players: "Altar is probably trapped. Alvis you lead the way. Check it out"
Me:"When you past portal doors the blue energy forms around it and manifest in lighting that heads straight at you!"
AFTER
Players:"OK. New plan: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQz7j1erzvo"
As in - check every tile for about an hour...
I don't like challenges which lack decisions. I like adding more complicated traps that require cooperation, but I can't have to much of them. They are much work and can easily become to popular to be entertaining
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You can make the traps super obvious while still making them a challenge.
For example: If we take your room one with the hydra mouth pumping gas. Perhaps it continuously pumps gas unless turned off from a control area. That control area is held by a local orc tribe whose shaman realized that gas trap allowed them to flank enemies by strategically turning it off. So when the PCs see the room and pass it by they keep getting flanked by small groups of orcs.
Eventually they make it to the control room and use disable device to turn it off.
Maybe they don't pass it by and brave the gas to turn the trap off. They use some spells to buff the rogue and send him in. He disables the trap but takes some damage. However, the group gets to come in on the orcs by surprise as they don't guard that entrance.
What this accomplishes is to make it so they are not so paranoid about traps and waste time looking for new ones
Lets take your lightning sword trap. Turns out that some electricity resistant creatures have laired in this room and attack. Now change the trap to only hit two creatures at random in the room. Sometimes the PCs get hit and other times the monsters get hit for no damage. The rogue needs to disable the trap while the group holds off the beasties.
Or they lure the beasties out but brave the trap to get the obvious treasure in the opposite corner.
Traps that are always on are a great way to make a room or fight more interesting and keep the players from being in a "Check everything!" mode.
You don't even need to use them in dungeons. The BBEG (a demon perhaps) is faced in a final battle in his lair. The lair is wreathed in fire from a magical trap or spell. Now the party must spend additional resources to negate fire damage while defeating the bad guy.
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One thing I decided to do was just give all rogues the trapfinder ability for free. Secondly, I had a big conversation with my players before last campaign started. I pretty much told them I wanted them to adventure and not be over paranoid about traps. I pretty much told them I would move to rooms or areas and would not ever make them "I move 5 ft and look for traps. Hmm no? I move another 5ft look for traps." I told them anyone who is not a rogue can declare they are looking for traps. I give them a check for the entire room which will take a few min. If they want to check the entire area of say a cathedral then that will probably take an hour or more. Depending on the clock currently the PCs have to decide if they have time or not. Taking hours to search a building may be too long or may trigger an encounter. It's up to them.
Minor traps I dont fuss about. If they find it good for them let them disable it. For funsies I sometimes make entire halls or rooms full of traps that are obvious. I try to make these like puzzles that will require some clever team work to get through or disable. One example is the self sealing room which can not be disabled from outside the room. Uh oh to get through you will need to set it off and be quick enough to disable before it kills ya. Fun stuff.
@Karkon
While it does not strictly address what my problem is maybe mixing different kinds encounters is the way to go.
@Pan
While I like to make more complicated traps and usually have 2-3 somewhere in the dungeon, they take much time to both prepare and run. I really liked old Book of Chalenges from D&D 3.0 but I don't know about any other sourcebook of this type.
Since I didn't have to wait at all for responses I will strike iron while it's hot and ask about one more thing (I don't declare past topics closed of course).
Oh and one more thing, that I will refer in this topic probably. I award my players something called Meta-points for being on time, to doing notes, session logs and other work that improves experience of the game. They can use it to buy stuff like Magic Treasure Map parts that I made or giving their characters some story buff (like good connections on court) or buying a trailer for the next season.
Sometimes I'm in need of roll that would be best described as different version of luck (as in completely random happening that may affect players or just some of them - both good and bad. As in if falling debris will block the path or if the can find somebody with the cart nearby) and insight (as in they didn't forgot something that they deemed unimportant and now I want to give them chance to recall that). Till now I just simply declared dome DC with basic d20 roll (sometimes with ability modifier), but I was thinking of composing 3 parameters. For example
1. Luck for blind luck (based on Charisma with some bonuses from other sources, like bard levels or number of unspent metapoints)
2. Memory for remembering something important that happened on session (Wisdom + some other modifiers)
3. Idea for coming up with some basic solution that somehow eludes them and is probably effect of miscommunication (Int + some other modifiers)
But this leaves more physical characters at disadvantage. What kind of parameters can I offer them? What could be "other modifiers"? Or maybe drop the idea all together?