I need help determining Feats


Advice

Liberty's Edge

Okay, perhaps I should give an explanation as to what I mean, before asking a question.

I was looking through my copy of the core rulebook, attempting to create a first level character (more on what I label as first level later), when I ran into a problem. I ran into the problem associated with step four in the first chapter, the chapter regarding the introduction to Pathfinder, after using all my possible skill ranks that I was allotted to have for skills.

In short? I don't know the first thing about DnD 3.5/Pathfinder Feat allocation.

I'll use WotC's old Star Wars: Saga Edition game as an example of how I know Feats:

Star Wars: Saga Edition on Jedi Starting Feats wrote:

At 1st level, you gain the following bonus feats:

Force Sensitivity
Weapon Proficiency (lightsabers)
Weapon Proficiency (simple weapons)

Star Wars: Saga Edition on Bonus Feats wrote:

At each even-numbered level (2nd, 4th, 6thy, etc.), you gain a bonus feat. This feat must be selected from the following list, and you must meet any prerequisites for that feat.

*list of feats redacted*

Now, my question is, do Feats in Pathfinder work like that? Or is there something I'm missing out on?

Also, as for what I call first level (I did say I'd talk about this), well, I decided to mess with the system for my own purposes... mainly because I'm writing a fanfic with Pathfinder rules involved. My reasoning for messing with the system was because of a house rule I developed for myself: Character levels are dependent on total possible class levels, not class levels are dependent on total character levels, so a character can't be limited to level 20 (I'm thinking of how to modify the XP rule for that as well).

Now, because of some reason that I haven't fully developed yet (at this moment), I decided to start my character with 5 (yes, you read that right, 5) classes that are all at level 1... and I have all 40 skills made available to me for the time being (though, of course, not enough ranks to go for all of them). However, there is an in-story reason for the amount of first level classes (that I finally developed at this point in the post), and it's two-fold. The first reason (neither of them are "because I felt like it") is because of divine intervention preventing my character from being screwed over too much... this will possibly be explained at a later time. The second reason is because my character is a Magus (not the class, the type of human in this fanfic that is naturally able to use magical power, so they're essentially Sorcerers) with some serious problems on hand due to being screwed over. This includes monster attacks on her person (among other things).


In pathfinder, every character gets one feat every character level.
You can find this in the Table: Character Advancement and Level-Dependent Bonuses. Don't have the book to give you a page number.

On top of this, humans get a bonus feat at character creation.

At certain class levels, various classes get bonus feats (either fixed or choosable), you need to look at the respective classes for that.

Hope it helps, otherwise, just ask again.

Liberty's Edge

In addition to what HaraldKlak said, note that many feats have requirements that you must fulfill BEFORE taking the feats.

Some class features allow you to take feats without fulfilling their requirements. in such a case, it is always written very clearly this way.

Liberty's Edge

Er, actually, what I meant was how many feats would my character get per level (using the house rule I made, I have my character at Cleric/Fighter/Rogue/Sorcerer (Arcane)/Wizard, and each one requires that they level up one at a time for the remaining 19 levels in the class listings that they have).

That's the part I'm having the most trouble with.

Liberty's Edge

I would adjust the feats to hit points. If your character's hit points are those of a (not houseruled) 5th level character, then give him feats as a 5th level character (ie, base of 3 feats).

If his hit points are those of a 1st level character, then feats for a 1st level character (ie, base of 1 feat) ;-)

Liberty's Edge

Okay, that makes sense, fortunately.

As it stands, the hit points on this character are for a (houseruled) 1st level character (well, they will be when I roll them up)... though, will that be just for one class, or for all of them?

EDIT: Keep in mind that I just need an opinion on that last one. I don't really intend to rule this variant of multi-classing in any game I might run (unless out of necessity). Besides which, I meant this with the question: One feat, or up to five (for all the classes)?


It really depend on what you want to achieve with this.

You could either go with a multiclass character or a gestalt character.

As a multiclassed character, you would be starting him at level 5, getting feats (and a 4th level ability score increase) as a 5th level character. On top of this you would get everything the 5 classes give you for the first level of said class.

As a gestalt character, you combine the 5 classes (haven't seen it done with that many) where you get the abilities from each class. You don't get identical abilities from several classes several times. You get the highest BAB, skill points, HP, and saves from the different classes.
This way you would get the feat from level 1 only once, but you would get the bonus feats from the different classes.

Normally a gestalt character levels all of the classes at once, but you might houserule it into advancing them seperately if that fits your game better.

Liberty's Edge

Hmm... a gestalt character is actually kinda what I had in mind when I did this.

Yes, I was houseruling it where each class leveled separately, mainly because it fits the circumstances better.


Zamuseru Uzukano wrote:

Hmm... a gestalt character is actually kinda what I had in mind when I did this.

Yes, I was houseruling it where each class leveled separately, mainly because it fits the circumstances better.

In this case, you should take the class abilities, the best BAB (probably full BAB), the highest saves (probably high saves all around), and the highest amount of hp and skill points any of the classes get, the one feat as a lvl 1 character + racial and class bonus feats.

Levelling up you start by giving them the second level of whatever class you want them to advance.

You get a strong lvl 1 character, but it is likely to balance itself out, as the character evolves.

Liberty's Edge

Alright... that makes a huge amount of sense there.

Thanks for the help.

Silver Crusade

Can I ask why you are house ruling a character to have so many classes? I have heard of gestalt (carrying two classes at once) but his seems to take it to a ridiculous level.

Liberty's Edge

To be honest, it's more like I'll be GMing and playing the character in question, because this is for a literary project of mine. I wanted to tell the story of a character who had divine protection, had a fighting spirit, could be quite roguish as well, and could not only cast spells like a Wizard, but like a Sorcerer as well.

I'd share what the project will be, but I'm unsure if you guys would read it, considering it's a fanfic project that crosses over with three other RPG rulesets and the Nasuverse (so far) with the main setting being the Nasuverse.


You may want to look up the Gestalt rules, then look at the Arcanist (new class coming in the Advanced Class Guide, which you can get the playtest PDF for on this site) and the Inquisitor as your Gestalt paths. The Arcanist prepares his spells for the day but can cast any he has prepared using any number of appropriately leveled spell slots. The Inquisitor has 6 level divine casting, has excellent battle abilities, and enough skill points to make the Rogue blush.

After this, you're going to have a hard time figuring out stat allocation. Do not dump Intelligence (the Rogue will hate you and your Wizarding ways in terms of skill points per level). Wisdom you can get away with starting at around 12-13 and spending points as you level up to increase it. Strength will be a commodity if you go melee, Dexterity if you want range. I suggest going with ranged. It's safer. Cast a Summon spell, let your monsters tank for you, then drop the opposition from afar.

You gain feats for every odd numbered hit die you gain (each class level adds a hit die to your total), so 1, 3, 5, 7, 9, 11, 13, 15, 17, 19, and then into epic levels. Different classes give you other Bonus Feats, most of which have a list to draw from, at specific intervals.

For a fanfic you're going to have to decide how well established this character is (his total character level) before determining feats and class abilities. You'll either watch him grow, or see him already big and bad and cool without knowing his background.

Liberty's Edge

Well, about how well established my character will be, I'm starting her out at Level 1 (for the reason that she's just getting used to her powers for the first time in... ever). She's just gotten her powers a short bit before the main action takes place, though she's sorta stuck in a world with little to no monster interaction, given circumstances (like the story being set in an AR Earth that lost access to the divinities and other such beings).

As for the classes, I'll go take a look at the rules for them, as well as the Gestalt rules.

Still... two more things: 1) I've heard reference to dump stats before, but I don't know what that means, unfortunately.

2) I don't think I know how epic levels work in Pathfinder... any clues?


Paizo hasn't published an Epic Level Handbook like WotC did for 3rd edition, and they've stated they probably won't anytime soon. Instead, look at Mythic Adventures. It's available on the PRD (in the column to the left, it's a few lines from the top). If you'd ever gain enough experience to make it past level 20, consider instead adding a mythic tier.

And as for stat dumps:
Generally these are used in point-buy systems, where you are given so many points to buy your stats. You can find the weighted point-buy rules in the first chapter of the Core Rulebook. When given X amount of points, you start to prioritize things. In order to put a score you like in one ability, you may take away points from another ability. You "dump" your least usable ability, in most cases Charisma, but in the case of the Sorcerer and similar Charisma-based characters you may instead dump Strength or Intelligence.

For a Gestalt Arcanist (Intelligence based caster with some Charisma abilities) and Inquisitor (Wisdom-based caster), you may be safe dumping either Strength or Dexterity to keep scores where you'd like, but both is not recommended. It is almost never advisable for any character to ever dump Constitution unless you have a feat or class feature that adds another ability score to hit points instead (such as 3rd ed's Fairy Mysteries Initiate).

Liberty's Edge

Oh? I see now.

Fortunately, I don't use stat dumps, given that I honestly roll dice for my ability scores in character creation.

Thanks for giving me the info needed for understanding how this works.


Zamuseru Uzukano wrote:

To be honest, it's more like I'll be GMing and playing the character in question, because this is for a literary project of mine. I wanted to tell the story of a character who had divine protection, had a fighting spirit, could be quite roguish as well, and could not only cast spells like a Wizard, but like a Sorcerer as well.

I'd share what the project will be, but I'm unsure if you guys would read it, considering it's a fanfic project that crosses over with three other RPG rulesets and the Nasuverse (so far) with the main setting being the Nasuverse.

Since rulesets are malleable, why not check out 3.5's Chameleon? It lets a character play many classes. Here's the intro:

Quote:

"Someone called for a cleric? Oh, you needed a fighter instead? I'm sorry -- I meant to say that the cleric is on his way. I'm the fighter." -- Jonata Quimbel

Sometimes it's good to be a fighter, able to wield any weapon. Other times, you'd be better off as a rogue, with stealth and the ability to backstab foes. And sometimes, nothing but spells will do the trick. When these situations collide and you need one answer, you need a chameleon.

As for epic rules, PF has some: Advancing Beyond 20th Level

/cevah

Liberty's Edge

Hmm... y'know, that actually sounds pretty cool right there, and it should make an awful lot of sense.

I'll let you guys know if I use that particular class (I haven't looked it up yet... just got back to this thread). If I do, though, I'll need to know what to do for converting it to PF rules.


Best part of the Chameleon is that it is already reasonably balanced. I definitely wanted to play one, but never got the chance. Also, you can enter the PrC at 6th level (because 3.5 let you have level + 3 ranks max). As you are using a GMPC, no reason you can't make it 5th instead with almost no tweaking, especially if your skills match the PrC's entry requirements. Likewise, the character background can be any single class, with a life changing encounter with another Chameleon, that sets you on your way. The PrC even has training camps.

/cevah

Liberty's Edge

Wow... that's awesome.

Thanks for letting me know that.

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