Ok, so it has been brought to my attention that class specific items do not work with archetypes because the archetype switches out the class feature they interact with. My thought was that the item functions with the new class feature as normal, am I wrong?
example:
A 10th level Two-Handed Fighter picks up Gloves of Dueling and Sash of the War Champion.
The gloves grant a +2 bonus to weapon training and the sash treats your fighter level 4 higher for bravery and armor training.
Since the fighter at 10th level would have weapon training 2, armor training 2 and bravery +3; the archetype would change it to two-handed weapons training 2, overhand chop and back swing, and shattering strikes +3.
With the equipment would the two-handed weapons training gain the +2 bonus, would he gain access to the piledriver class feature, and would shattering strikes increase to +4?
A class-specific item should work fine with an archetype so long as (a) the archetype is of the correct class and (b) the archetype has any features being modified by the item.
Since a two-handed fighter doesn't have bravery, weapon training, or armor training, those items wouldn't work for a two-handed fighter.
A gladiator, on the other hand, would get the normal effects for weapon and armor training. He would not get any boost to his non-existent bravery feature, and he would not get a boost to his fame feature even though it replaces bravery.
There is an FAQ about this. Hold on and I'll find it.
Edit: Damn! I can't find it. But its somewhere in the FAQ's.
Anyways, Gloves of Dueling should work for a Two Hand Fighter I believe. The FAQ basically said that if the text of class feature that replaced Weapon Training was basically the same it functioned, but if it replaced it with something completely different it did not.
Edit: Found it.
Archetype: If an archetype replaces a class ability with a more specific version of that ability (or one that works similarly to the replaced ability), does the archetype's ability count as the original ability for the purpose of rules that improve the original ability?
It depends on how the archetype's ability is worded. If the archetype ability says it works like the standard ability, it counts as that ability. If the archetype's ability requires you to make a specific choice for the standard ability, it counts as that ability. Otherwise, the archetype ability doesn't count as the standard ability. (It doesn't matter if the archetype's ability name is different than the standard class ability it is replacing; it is the description and game mechanics of the archetype ability that matter.)
Example: The dragoon (fighter) archetype (Ultimate Combat) has an ability called "spear training," which requires the dragoon to select "spears" as his weapon training group, and refers to his weapon training bonus (even though this bonus follows a slightly different progression than standard weapon training). Therefore, this ability counts as weapon training for abilities that improve weapon training, such as gloves of dueling (Advanced Player's Guide), which increase the wearer's weapon training bonus.
Example: The archer (fighter) archetype gets several abilities (such as "expert archer") which replace weapon training and do not otherwise refer to the weapon training ability. Therefore, this ability does not count as weapon training for abilities that improve weapon training (such as gloves of dueling). This is the case even for the "expert archer," ability which has a bonus that improves every 4 fighter levels, exactly like weapon training.
—Pathfinder Design Team, 07/12/13
So for a two handed fighter Gloves of Dueling function just fine. However, Bravery and Armor Training are also replaced with Two Handed Fighter and what it is replaced with does not reference of function like Bravery or Armor Training so something that enhances them (the Sash of the War Champion) would not provide a benefit.
If something grants a bonus to weapon training, and you don't have weapon training, you get no bonus, even if it's something very similar.
If your GM wants to rule differently, he's welcome to.
A class-specific item should work fine with an archetype so long as (a) the archetype is of the correct class and (b) the archetype has any features being modified by the item.
Since a two-handed fighter doesn't have bravery, weapon training, or armor training, those items wouldn't work for a two-handed fighter.
A gladiator, on the other hand, would get the normal effects for weapon and armor training. He would not get any boost to his non-existent bravery feature, and he would not get a boost to his fame feature even though it replaces bravery.
Thank you, I can see your reasoning
Thanks, it is sad that I was mistaken but it's good to know.
Thanks, it is sad that I was mistaken but it's good to know.
Please check my post. The gloves work fine, the sash does not for a Two Handed Fighter.
That makes sense. Since Two Handed Fighter says "As the fighter class feature", it should work fine for weapon training.
I also missed that the THF's replacement feature is also called Weapon Training. So even if the feature name mattered (which, apparently, it doesn't, per FAQ), it should have worked.
Thanks, it is sad that I was mistaken but it's good to know.Please check my post. The gloves work fine, the sash does not for a Two Handed Fighter.
Sweet, so I was half-right and half wrong :)