
Akin DT |
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Fact1: Deinonychus/velociraptor is available as an animal companion, and at level 7, would be appropriate for a small sized paladin. It would have at least Intelligence 6
Fact2: Deinonychus is a biped, and thus has arms available for strapping things on.
Fact3: Of the 5 natural weapons (without using any magical items) it can attack with, claw is the worst. It is however, still a primary natural weapon that can be used on a pounce.
Fact4: Mithril bucklers don't require proficiency in shields
Fact5: You only lose your (shield) AC bonus when attacking with an arm that has a buckler strapped to it
Question 1: Could a Deinonychus use a bucker?
Looking at the above facts, this seems to be the case. Unless Paizo's Deinonychus is much more feathery than the one in the Bestiary, I don't see why not.
Question 2: Could it strap on the buckler itself?
While the claws can hold things, (didn't animal archive list it's category as something that can use wands etc?) I don't think they had quite the dexterity to do that, but I'm uncertain.
Question 3: What magical properties would be best for such a buckler? It can't speak command words without an item or spell to allow speech, right?
Anyone have any thoughts?

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Fact 4: Are you sure? I've never heard that or seen that rule.
Fact 5: You also lose -1 to the attack roll :P
Question 1: Yes... with shield proficiency (IMO, until relevant rules are quoted).
Question 2: I would say it can, it's just difficult. That skill comes with the shield proficiency.
Question 3: Armor enchantments for a buckler for a velociraptor... Hmm...
Depends on what you want it to do.
Arrow Catching looks good, all arrows go to your mount instead of you while you want that. Add in the mount combat feat and arrow deflection and your mounted character will be great against archers. Another great add in is Determination, free breath of life when you drop below zero (brings your mount back to life when it dies from huge amounts of damage all at once).
You could also do some sort of charge/shield bash combo with pounce... though I'm not sure bucklers can. But if you can, get the ramming ability as well. Free bull rush attack can change the battlefield, and is kinda hilarious that your being pushed back by a dinosaur using a buckler O.o

Akin DT |
Fact 4: Are you sure? I've never heard that or seen that rule.
Fact 5: You also lose -1 to the attack roll :P
{...}
You could also do some sort of charge/shield bash combo with pounce... though I'm not sure bucklers can. But if you can, get the ramming ability as well. Free bull rush attack can change the battlefield, and is kinda hilarious that your being pushed back by a dinosaur using a buckler O.o
(partly ninjaed on this but for completion sake...)
Yes, regarding fact 4:Nonproficient with Armor Worn: A character who wears armor and/or uses a shield with which he is not proficient takes the armor's (and/or shield's) armor check penalty on attack rolls as well as on all Dex- and Str-based ability and skill checks. The penalty for non-proficiency with armor stacks with the penalty for shields.
Which in the case of mithril bucklers is 0. Or darkwood, depending on if your DM thinks the darkwood buckler is a buckler. *sigh*
-1 is kinda minor here, because the claw is the worst attack it has.
And you can't shield bash with a buckler. Though if you could, you couldn't use that arm for a claw, and it would make all the raptor's attacks secondary natural attacks for that full attack/pounce.

lemeres |

FrodoOf9Fingers wrote:The only penalty for using a shield/buckler without proficiency is taking it's armor check penalty to your attack rolls. Mithril buckles don't have an armor check penalty.Fact 4: Are you sure? I've never heard that or seen that rule.
Neither do masterwork ones, since that removes one from the ACP. Heck, it could take a masterwork light shield. So if you are working with magical items, there are no proficiency problems outside of arcane spell failure until try to use quickdraw or heavy shields.

Mojorat |

blahpers wrote:Ha. I'd allow the buckler, but there's no way that it has sufficiently fine manipulators to put it on/off by itself, much less handle a wand. Not a chance.Should be able to hold a wand, how much manipulation do you need to use it?
If that were true cats would not need us to open cans. The little arms and claws grip by pulling downward with the claws. I've never seen them described as being able to pick things up.

Durngrun Stonebreaker |

Durngrun Stonebreaker wrote:If that were true cats would not need us to open cans. The little arms and claws grip by pulling downward with the claws. I've never seen them described as being able to pick things up.blahpers wrote:Ha. I'd allow the buckler, but there's no way that it has sufficiently fine manipulators to put it on/off by itself, much less handle a wand. Not a chance.Should be able to hold a wand, how much manipulation do you need to use it?
They can't grip? I understand not digging it out of a backpack but what if placed it it's claw?

Puck Norris |
You have to actually *block* with a buckler for it to be useful in real life. You may not need proficiency but the animal needs to be awakened at least or otherwise intelligent (INT>2) or he's just flinging it around like a plate, it would have more chance of being used in an accidental shield bash.

Darksol the Painbringer |

This is a very difficult question to answer, and honestly, I'd treat it the same way I'd treat armor and weapons for animals: It has to be specially made for it.
Not any shield is sized or shaped properly for an individual of any type to use; the same is said for armor such as Full Plate. Now, the argument of "one size fits all" for a shield would work if this was for another humanoid. But it's not.
It's for an animal companion, whose arms can barely hold a weapon (due to requiring the fine manipulation of human fingers); a tail weapon, on the other hand, would be much more feasible, since it's designed for a limb that the animal companion has.
Back to the buckler; I'd rule that it follows the same rules as Barding for mounts and the such, in that the Buckler must be specially made to fit on the wrist of a Velociraptor. For this, it'd follow these guidelines regarding armor:
Barding is a type of armor that covers the head, neck, chest, body, and possibly legs of a horse or other mount. Barding made of medium or heavy armor provides better protection than light barding, but at the expense of speed. Barding can be made of any of the armor types found on Table: Armor and Shields.
Armor for a horse (a Large non-humanoid creature) costs four times as much as human armor (a Medium humanoid creature) and also weighs twice as much (see Table: Armor for Unusual Creatures). If the barding is for a pony or other Medium mount, the cost is only double, and the weight is the same as for Medium armor worn by a humanoid. Medium or heavy barding slows a mount that wears it, as shown on the table below.
It helps to note that this Barding includes Shields on the table it can choose from. At any rate, we can easily say that the Velociraptor has wrists to attach shields, and that shields can be considered part of the Barding the creature gets. Following that it's a medium non-humanoid creature, its total cost is doubled, but otherwise usable by the Velociraptor.

lemeres |

You have to actually *block* with a buckler for it to be useful in real life. You may not need proficiency but the animal needs to be awakened at least or otherwise intelligent (INT>2) or he's just flinging it around like a plate, it would have more chance of being used in an accidental shield bash.
Well, luckily the original post mentioned that it was a paladin mount. That means an int of 6.
Although, I second Mojorat's concern about how this became a mount, since only the beast rider cavalier (and maybe orcs or half orcs with a feat also, confusingly, called beast rider) can get dinosaur 'mounts', rather than animal companions. And even then it is mostly restricted to quadrupeds. Is this house ruled? And are you sure you want to try your GM's patience with an armored, shielded dinosaur if it is by their say so?

Akin DT |
Durngrun Stonebreaker wrote:If that were true cats would not need us to open cans. The little arms and claws grip by pulling downward with the claws. I've never seen them described as being able to pick things up.blahpers wrote:Ha. I'd allow the buckler, but there's no way that it has sufficiently fine manipulators to put it on/off by itself, much less handle a wand. Not a chance.Should be able to hold a wand, how much manipulation do you need to use it?
1.cats have very differently designed claws than these bipeds. Cat's claws are retractable, and they walk on four feet. They did not have them "free" to manipulate things. That said, neither do bears when they are moving, yet they can pick things up.
2.Animal archive, inside front cover. Bipedal dinosaurs can at least hold things (though manipulation would varies depending on how their hands are constructed. Presumably, you'd have to put something in the front claws of your Tyrannosaurus for it to reliably hold it.) If the spell is a self or touch spell, it doesn't even need meaningful aim. Deinonychus should has better manipulation than most of the companions in that sub-list (unless the DM thinks the arms should be more wing-like, in which case it would have a harder time). It could probably even retrieve wands or potions stored in easy-to-grab sheaths.
--
Regarding concerns about bipedal mounts: paladins don't have a restriction on their bonded mount, other than it's
This mount is usually a horse (for a Medium paladin) or a pony (for a Small paladin), although more exotic mounts, such as a boar, camel, or dog are also suitable.
(the d20fsdrd has the old text "heavy horse" in there, and ponies are horrible.)
Cavaliers have much greater restrictions on what they can pick. They need an archetype to pick outside that, just like they need an archetype for ranged weapons to be useful in their challenge feature.

Darksol the Painbringer |

Darksol the Painbringer wrote:(barding)So 10 gold instead of 5? Seems fair if the arm is different enough... I don't think it's "total cost" (magical properties, etc) though... Does the masterwork property of large humanoids cost more, or just the base item cost?
Enhancement Bonuses wouldn't apply as that's not the part that's "specially made" for the animal. Shape, Proportion, Material, etc. all apply, though, since that's what's being adjusted to fit the creature, not the Enhancement Bonuses.
I'll cite the paragraph again:
Armor for a horse (a Large non-humanoid creature) costs four times as much as human armor (a Medium humanoid creature) and also weighs twice as much (see Table: Armor for Unusual Creatures). If the barding is for a pony or other Medium mount, the cost is only double, and the weight is the same as for Medium armor worn by a humanoid. Medium or heavy barding slows a mount that wears it, as shown on the table below.
Bolded relevant text.
Given that they make no distinction regarding whether special materials, masterwork, etc. fits into this cost, it's safe to say that it does, considering that's all part of the cost of the item itself, not the Enhancement Bonuses that would come with it.
For example, a Buckler made out of Mithril for an Animal Companion to use would actually be 2,010 GP instead of 1,005. A Masterwork Buckler, on the other hand, would cost 305 GP, though a +1 Buckler still only costs 1,305 GP.
I'd also say that the animal needs to be trained in its usage to receive the AC benefits of the shield, a lot like how any domestic animal would be trained for combat with other creatures (namely the guardian of the animal), considering it's a feature that the animal is not naturally used to having.

blahpers |

blahpers wrote:Ha. I'd allow the buckler, but there's no way that it has sufficiently fine manipulators to put it on/off by itself, much less handle a wand. Not a chance.Should be able to hold a wand, how much manipulation do you need to use it?
Leaving aside the question of whether a velociraptor or similar dinosaur can reliably grip a stick-shaped object:
To activate a wand, a character must hold it in hand (or whatever passes for a hand, for non-humanoid creatures) and point it in the general direction of the target or area.
At a minimum, they have to be able to reliably point the thing at the target.
I just spent five minutes looking at skeletal and reconstructed diagrams of a deinonychus or velociraptor's "hand", and I just can't see them holding a wand, much less reliably pointing it with any degree of precision.

graystone |

Wands wrote:To activate a wand, a character must hold it in hand (or whatever passes for a hand, for non-humanoid creatures) and point it in the general direction of the target or area.At a minimum, they have to be able to reliably point the thing at the target.
I just spent five minutes looking at skeletal and reconstructed diagrams of a deinonychus or velociraptor's "hand", and I just can't see them holding a wand, much less reliably pointing it with any degree of precision.
I could see a Locked gauntlet fixing that issue.

Akin DT |
Leaving aside the question of whether a velociraptor or similar dinosaur can reliably grip a stick-shaped object:
Wands wrote:To activate a wand, a character must hold it in hand (or whatever passes for a hand, for non-humanoid creatures) and point it in the general direction of the target or area.At a minimum, they have to be able to reliably point the thing at the target.
I just spent five minutes looking at skeletal and reconstructed diagrams of a deinonychus or velociraptor's "hand", and I just can't see them holding a wand, much less reliably pointing it with any degree of precision.
(bolding added)
No need to think about "skeletal structure", RAW they can hold similar objects. Animal archive, inside front cover. Also, the text you quoted said only "general direction", which is the opposite of reliably.Basically anything with movable arms that can keep a wand in their grip can do that. If they could keep it wedged between their claws (or between their hands and chest, like ppl who think their arms were more winglike suggest in the Wikipedia article), they could point it in the general direction of something.

blahpers |

Nope, not buying it. While I don't own Animal Archive, I'm more than confident that being bipedal still requires you to have the requisite limb to hold the wand. Dromaeosaurs had little better than forelegs; they weren't dexterous like hands. Propping the wand like that isn't any better than gluing it to an elephant's cranium, pointing forward like a turret.
Now an elephant, that I'd allow. Those trunks are amazing.