Never came up so far in any game I was in or ran. It says you may make such knowledge skill checks untrained, because this is an exception to the way knowledges normally work (you can only make DC 10 checks untrained), not that you must do it. Your DM is wrong here.
Your GM is housing.
RAW, you don't have to know that a creature is a magical beast to get favored enemy (magical beast) bonuses against it. It could polymorph into a human and make every Disguise check in the book and you'd still get your bonuses. Favored enemy bonus rules only care about what the enemy actually is.
The line quoted is meant as a benefit, not a drawback.
Agree with blahpers. Favored Enemey is an extraordinary ability; while not magical, it does not rely on, nor state as a requirement, a successful Knowledge check to function.
Greetings, fellow travellers.
I support blahpers argument--as player and GM. The untrained skill checks are a bonus--not a burden nor a prereq for applying your bonusses.
To find common ground this might help: whenever I've played a ranger, I saw it as a part of being a ranger that I'd know which of the monsters we fought was a fav enemey of mine--that's what part of my class defines, a tool of my trade and also something I took pride in; to tell my fellow group members what it is we're fighting and announcing the weaknesses of the monsters (DC per RAW is 10 + its CR)
And with 6+INT skill points per level, spending one or two of them every 5 levels in the respective skill should be do-able, too, right?
Also, without knowing what you fight, the GM would have to apply your bonusses to attack and damage and skills--if you relieve her of the paper work, it will make the game faster and you happier, since your contribution to the groups progress becomes (even more) evident.
That's at least how I see it. Hope it helps!
Ruyan.
Ninja'ed by the GM. Hehe. That's what I get for getting lost reading in the PRD...
And I see your point, El Cubano, as I feel (and handle the situation) the same way when GMing.
Ruyan.
I think that's an acceptable way to run it, El Cubano.
Let me clarify just a little bit as I'm the GM in question. I simply said that I, as the GM, would add the FE bonuses "behind the screen" until a proper knowledge check was made. After a successful check, the creature type would be determined correctly, and the ranger can proceed to add the bonuses themselves.
If I don't do it this way, then there is no mystery when a ranger runs into a FE. Oh, you have a FE of (Insert type/subtype), you automatically know this creature that you have never seen before because it just shifted in from some distant plane for the first time in history is this...
This seems like a cheap-man's creature ID. Even on a failed check, a ranger would automatically know the creature type? This just seems wrong to me...
That's absolutely a great way to play it, and totally consistent with RAW.
An alternative might be to say, after the first exchange, "you don't know what this thing is, but it sure fights like a fey. And you know how to fight fey...." They still wouldn't know what kind of fey it was, of course, without making their Knowledge check.
I haven't decided which way I'd play it, as it hasn't come up yet. Probably whichever way makes sense at the time.
Ok, as long as the bonuses are added, it should not be a big issue. Mind you, generally knowing the type of a creature is a fairly easy knowledge check... often one easy enough that it can be made untrained :) .
A bonus to Perception that only works on something after you've seen it? A bonus to Knowledge that only works on something after you've identified it? Why not rule that the bonus to hit only works on the enemy after you've already killed it?
A ranger may make Knowledge skill checks untrained when attempting to identify these creatures.Because of this line, my DM says that I must make a skill check to ID the favored enemy first to get my bonus.
I am a little annoyed with this choice. Anyone have some clarification on this?
Let me clarify just a little bit as I'm the GM in question. I simply said that I, as the GM, would add the FE bonuses "behind the screen" until a proper knowledge check was made. After a successful check, the creature type would be determined correctly, and the ranger can proceed to add the bonuses themselves.
If I don't do it this way, then there is no mystery when a ranger runs into a FE. Oh, you have a FE of (Insert type/subtype), you automatically know this creature that you have never seen before because it just shifted in from some distant plane for the first time in history is this...
This seems like a cheap-man's creature ID. Even on a failed check, a ranger would automatically know the creature type? This just seems wrong to me...
I think the problem you have is confusing a creature's type with a creatures ID. To even make the knowledge check, you need to know what type it is, as that determines which knowledge skill to use.
The GM does not need to identify the monster as a ghoul, but just as some kind of undead. If the the favored enemy is undead, then the player can apply the feature even if they don't know the difference between a ghoul and a zombie.
/cevah
Shouldn't it be obvious to identify a creature's type, especially a type a character has specialized in hunting, unless it's been polymorphed?
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I like what the GM is doing. There was a thread not too long ago about what the DC of identifying a creature's type would be (I think most people agreed on just a flat DC 10, or 5 for really common creature types, or 15 for really rare ones). I think this would fall in line with that discussion.
So, say you have Undead as your FE, and you encounter some obscure creature dripping with bodily fluids that's eyeing you hungrily. You think it's Undead, but you're not sure. The GM knows your Knowledges and their associated bonuses, and rolls behind the screen to see if you can identify the creature's type. It might be an Aberration, it might be Undead, it might just be a Humanoid. For sake of argument, let's say it's Undead, and the GM's secret roll results in an 11.
"You recognize this as an Undead. Give me a Knowledge (religion) check to see if you can tell anything else about it."
And then proceed as normal.
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It's your Favoured Enemy... The Ranger should be intimately familiar with that creature type.
This knowledge check idea is a great thematic RP device, but I'd only require it if the FE was disguised/poly morphed as something else.
I'd also restrict what FE my players could take... That restriction: you must have encountered this creature type before... If it's your 1st FE just write into your back story and we're golden.
Shouldn't it be obvious to identify a creature's type, especially a type a character has specialized in hunting, unless it's been polymorphed?
Not necessarily. For example, outsiders and fey come in all shapes and sizes, and some look just like your bog-standard humanoid to someone with no Knowledge of such things.
Identifying a creature's type instead of its, ah, species came up in a thread recently. The rules don't cover this; either you have to make your Knowledge check or make your best guess from the GM's description. Fortunately, you don't have to do either to get favored enemy bonuses.
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Let me clarify just a little bit as I'm the GM in question. I simply said that I, as the GM, would add the FE bonuses "behind the screen" until a proper knowledge check was made. After a successful check, the creature type would be determined correctly, and the ranger can proceed to add the bonuses themselves.
If I don't do it this way, then there is no mystery when a ranger runs into a FE. Oh, you have a FE of (Insert type/subtype), you automatically know this creature that you have never seen before because it just shifted in from some distant plane for the first time in history is this...
This seems like a cheap-man's creature ID. Even on a failed check, a ranger would automatically know the creature type? This just seems wrong to me...
Nothing wrong with this and it does help with the immersion. As long as the players know about this rule beforehand ;-)
Note though that it does give the GM even more work. Also, the GM should then make any Knowledge check to identify a creature, as nothing says Undead (and thus Channel) faster than "Make a Kn:Religion check to identify this creature" ;-)
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Let me clarify just a little bit as I'm the GM in question. I simply said that I, as the GM, would add the FE bonuses "behind the screen" until a proper knowledge check was made. After a successful check, the creature type would be determined correctly, and the ranger can proceed to add the bonuses themselves.
If I don't do it this way, then there is no mystery when a ranger runs into a FE. Oh, you have a FE of (Insert type/subtype), you automatically know this creature that you have never seen before because it just shifted in from some distant plane for the first time in history is this...
This seems like a cheap-man's creature ID. Even on a failed check, a ranger would automatically know the creature type? This just seems wrong to me...
Nothing wrong with this and it does help with the immersion. As long as the players know about this rule beforehand ;-)
Note though that it does give the GM even more work. Also, the GM should then make any Knowledge check to identify a creature, as nothing says Undead (and thus Channel) faster than "Make a Kn:Religion check to identify this creature" ;-)
Yeah I didn't actually know the rule before hand - hence the annoyance.
But we talked about it and I finally stopped taking it personally. :)