Goblin Squad Member
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For those folks who aren't as computer tech savvy but are interested in upgrading your comp or getting a new one in anticipation of PFO, a short intro to what's relevant, mostly PCs, with a short section on Macs:
Video card: The GPU (graphics chip) has the biggest impact on game performance. They come in two flavors:
-GeForce cards designed by NVIDIA. They range in performance (and cost) from the GeForce GTX 500-GTX 700 series, and are topped by the new GeForce TITAN card.
-Radeon cards designed by ATI, ranging from the Radeon HD 4000-7000 series
Both kind of cards work well, and both support technology to chain multiple cards together (kind of like having 2 or 3 engines in your race car): SLI for NVIDIA, and Crossfire for ATI. Both require motherboards that support that technology.
In addition to the GPU, VRAM memory is important, both the amount and to a lesser degree the speed. Essentially more/faster is better, and a card with a GPU one step down, but with robust memory, might be faster (and more expensive) than a step up in GPU on a cheap card.
Both kinds of cards need a modern motherboard with a kind of connector called a PCI Express x 16 bus (PCIex16). Both cards draw significant power from the system, so you need to make sure you have an adequate power supply. For GeForce-based cards, 450-500 watts will likely work, but for the top end TITAN card, you'd need 650W (you can look up power requirements on NVIDIA's website). If you run multiple cards in SLI/Crossfire mode, power consumption goes way up (and you may have cooling problems ).
Bear in mind that if you buy an off the shelf computer, or have a custom rig built at a place like Cyberpower or Falcon Northwest, all the parts will be compatible. If you want to upgrade/build, you will need to make sure you have the right motherboard and powersupply, sufficient space for the card itself, and sufficient cooling, to successfully upgrade.
Laptop video cards: similar deal: Radeon HD and NVIDIA GeForce cards, except there is an "m" after the number to denote "mobile," e.g. GeForce GTX 780m, which is the fastest single mobile card. Be advised that you must have a "discrete" video card in your laptop if you want to play this game—"integrated" chips won't work. The possible exception to this is the brand new Intel Iris Pro 5200 chip. It is comparable to a GeForce GTX 650M, and based on performance with today's games (e.g. Skyrim), I would speculate will work for PFO. You can play Skyrim at low graphics settings and get a high framerate with an Iris Pro or a GTX 650M, but not play it (usably) at Ultra settings. So I'm guessing that GW is unlikely to release a bleeding edge graphics game, and so I'm setting up the GTX 650M as a bottom level acceptable chip.
For more on laptop graphics performance, see this useful chart.
CPUs: Again, it's a binary choice, in this case between Intel and AMD. There is more to choosing a CPU than just the processor model (the speed and onboard cache also impact performance greatly), so take this as a starting overview:
-Intel chips come in i3, i5, and i7 varieties. Basically, the i7 chips don't offer much of a boost to game performance—my new system is going to be built around an i5 (I would guess an i3 system with a good card would be ok).
Note: if you build an i5 system, bear in mind they come in two flavors: Haswell and Ivy Bridge, that need two different kinds of motherboard sockets (socket 1155 and 1150, respectively).
-AMD chips come in FX 4000-9000 series, with higher numbers more powerful and more expensive. I only build Intel rigs so I can't say much about the relative merits of the different series. I can say though that both Intel and AMD make good chips and that you can do fine with either.
System Memory (RAM) It's cheap these days, and more is better, so I think it makes sense to get 4 MB RAM if you are running a 32-bit version of Windows 7, or 8 GB if you are running a 64-bit OS. Currently DDR (Double Data Rate)3 is the best, but DDR4 should be out soon. Faster memory can help, but the important thing is to have a lot, enough to avoid your memory having to swap info between RAM and virtual RAM on your HD (that would slow things down considerably). As a reference point, I'm running a 64-bit Windows 7 OS but I have a measly 2 GB RAM, and when I recently participated in a beta test of a new AAA game, my hard drive was running constantly as a swap file, making up for the limited RAM.
For Mac Users
It's a lot more straightforward, since Macs (especially the iMac and notebooks) aren't as amenable to upgrades. Again, this is based on my assumptions that GW isn't going to put out something that's needs bleeding edge technology, and that systems that play current 3d games well now will likely work for PFO. Given that, I would guess the following CURRENT Macs would work:
-15" MacBook Pro w/ Retina Display, with the GTX 750m option a much better choice than the Iris Pro.
-Both the 21.5" and 27" iMacs, with the 27" optional upgrades to GeForce GT and GTX cards a much better choice.
I'm just a hobbyist who likes to make his own rigs--I'm sure there are folks here who vastly surpass my knowledge, so please chime in with revisions or additions.
On the subject of video cards while both ATI and Nvidia make good cards and they have a tendency to be leapfrogging each other as to which has the best card I do these days tend to usually go for NVidia.
While only a personal feeling I have found it to be the case for the games I have played that it tends to be the ATI cards which tend to have the most problems with new games. These problems are usually ironed out within a few weeks by driver updates but can be quite irritating at the time.
It should be noted though that
1) this is purely a personal and subjective experience,
2) NVidia has exactly the same problems from time to time I have just experienced it more in my opinion from ATI cards
3) The issues are usually short term and fixed by driver updates
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Goblin Squad Member
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Yeah, from my own experience ATI has a history of scoring very good on benchmarking tests (graphical simulations to determine how powerful a card is) compared to their price but having in general more issues when it comes to performance in actual games.
I believe it has to do with NVIDIA cooperating with/(coercing?) game developers to optimize their games for NVIDIA cards?
I.e. ATI cards look good on paper but many games still run better with NVIDIA cards.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I've run both. The biggest difference (barring different release dates: whichever one is ahead will be matched by the time the price comes down anyway) is in the quality/timeliness of the drivers, installation routines, and customer support.
I've had better luck with nvidia but your mileage may well vary. ATI generally has lower power consumption. Nvidia has better coders.
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Goblin Squad Member
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So, it being post-Christmas and all, maybe some good prices and what not, I broke down bought parts for my new system.
I already have a 750W Corsair PS, optic drives, HDs from my current system, a Core2Duo based system. I decided to go for a Haswell-based, LGA 1150 system, something that wouldn't be too crazy expensive now but would have an upgrade path in a couple of years. Basically I have been itching for sometime to build a new rig, and PFO is giving me an excuse to do so.
- Antec Mid-Tower ATX case w/ 3 120MM and 1 140mm fans
- MSI Z87-G45 Gaming LGA 1150 MB
- MSI N660-2GD5/OC GeForce GTX 660 2GB 192-bit GDDR5
- Intel Core i5-4430 Haswell 3.0GHz
- Ripsaw 4 GB DDR3 1600
I set a budget of $650, so I had to compromise on less/slower memory, but I'll likely get another 4GB in a few months. There's only so much upgrade path with any chipset, and but since the MB supports SLI, in a year or if I need to, I'll add in another card and run them both in SLI-mode. And if for some reason I need more CPU horses I could get an unlocked, K-series i7 upgrade.
Very excited, and very excited to see how this new rig plays PFO when it comes out.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I'm actually looking at this: Dell XPS 8700
* 4th Generation Intel(R) Core (TM) i7-4770 processor (8M Cache, up to 3.9 GHz)
* Windows 7 Professional 64 bit, English, No Media
* 8GB Dual Channel DDR3 1600MHz - 2 DIMMs; 1TB 7200 RPM SATA Hard Drive 6.0 Gb/s
* NVIDIA GeForce GT 635 1GB DDR3; 16X CD/DVD burner (DVD+/-RW)
for about $850
or this one from: Acer Predator E3
Key Features
4th Generation Intel® Core™ i7-4770 processor 3.4GHz with Turbo Boost Technology up to 3.9GHz (6MB Total Cache)
Windows 8
2TB 7200RPM SATA3 Hard Drive
12GB DDR3 Memory
NVIDIA® GeForce® GT640 Graphics with 4GB of Discrete Video Memory
Digital Media Card Reader -Secure Digital™ (SD) Card
10/100/1000 Gigabit Ethernet LAN
802.11a/b/g/n Wireless
Bluetooth® 4.0
8X DVD-SuperMulti Double-Layer Drive
High-Definition 5.1-Channel Audio Support
4- USB 2.0 Ports (2 front, 2rear)
4- USB 3.0 Port(2 front, 2 rear)
1- HDMI™ Port
1- DVI Port
USB Keyboard and Optical Mouse
For $863.00
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Goblin Squad Member
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I'm looking at this:
- Windows 7 Professional 64 bit
- 3rd Generation Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-4820 (10M Cache, 3.7 GHz)
- 24GB DDR3 1600MHz -4 DIMMS
- 1TB 7200 RPM SATA HD
- 4GB Nvidia GeForce GT 640
- Blu-ray Reader and SuperMulti DVD/CD burner
About $1,200
Haven't decided yet if I will go with one or two monitors. Probably one at first and buy a second one later.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Here's my rig. It's a few years old. I bought it as a package. I was wondering if it would be worth to buy more RAM or if I would have to buy a new rig completely to have more significant improvement. I do have friends that could build a rig for me though. I'd appreciate any tips.
- Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit
- Intel Core i5 650 @ 3.20GHz
- 6,00GB Dual-Channel DDR3
- 931GB Western Digital WDC (SATA)
- 1024MB ATI AMD Radeon HD 5800 Series
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Goblin Squad Member
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Intel i7 930@2.8GHz
12 Gigs 1600 RAM
OS:
Win7 (64)
Vid:
NVidia GTX 680 (4038 MB)(dual monitors)
Sound:
Creative SB X-Fi (big woofer & 4 speakers available but usually unused)
Plantronics GameCom 780 headset (Dolby Surround, good mike)
Storage:
923 GB WD HDD (C:)
Sandisk 111GB SSD (w/readyboost cache)
1 TB WD HDD
2 GB USB Stick (readyboost cache)
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Goblin Squad Member
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Bluddwolf: don't know the exact specs on the cards, but the 2d system seems much more attractive w/ 4GB vice 1GB.
Yes, it is but I'm unfamiliar with Acer as a product. I'll wait to see what the MVP of PFO requires and make a purchased at that time. 6-8 months from now is enough time to buy twice the computer for the same price now.
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Goblin Squad Member
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These all sound like nice, modern systems that will play PFO well (I'm assuming PFO doesn't release a game that demands bleeding edge technology).
One thing I noticed is the preponderance of i7 CPUs. In terms of of game performance, i5 and i7 chips have almost identical performance. At minimum settings on games like Skyrim or Bioshock, an i7 chip is going to have frame-rates increases of approximately 5-9%, but the difference won't be visible to the naked eye (243fps looks the same as 222). At max settings on those games, performance is identical.
So if your main concern is gaming and you can make the tradeoff, getting an i5 and saving $100, and then putting that $100 towards going up a chipset or two in the graphics card would make a significant improvement in gaming performance now, and more importantly keep your system playing capably a lot longer.
However, if you do very CPU intensive tasks (e.g. video-editing), then the i7 makes sense.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Yes, it is but I'm unfamiliar with Acer as a product. I'll wait to see what the MVP of PFO requires and make a purchased at that time. 6-8 months from now is enough time to buy twice the computer for the same price now.
Acer has been in the game a very long time, but the first decade was about third tier. Cheap, with plenty of problems. More recently they pushed themselves into the big leagues, at one time comparing favorably with Dell. I am not sure what their rep is currently but I suspect it is about where Compaq/HP PCs have fallen.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Yes, it is but I'm unfamiliar with Acer as a product. I'll wait to see what the MVP of PFO requires and make a purchased at that time. 6-8 months from now is enough time to buy twice the computer for the same price now.Acer has been in the game a very long time, but the first decade was about third tier. Cheap, with plenty of problems. More recently they pushed themselves into the big leagues, at one time comparing favorably with Dell. I am not sure what their rep is currently but I suspect it is about where Compaq/HP PCs have fallen.
OMG, Compaq computers were WTF Suck!! reputation. Is that really where ACER is now??
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Goblin Squad Member
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Here's my rig. It's a few years old. I bought it as a package. I was wondering if it would be worth to buy more RAM or if I would have to buy a new rig completely to have more significant improvement. I do have friends that could build a rig for me though. I'd appreciate any tips.
- Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit
- Intel Core i5 650 @ 3.20GHz
- 6,00GB Dual-Channel DDR3
- 931GB Western Digital WDC (SATA)
- 1024MB ATI AMD Radeon HD 5800 Series
Aeioun, 6 is an "odd" memory config, which means you aren't running in dual-channel configuration (you need an even number of identical DIMM modules to run dual-channel), and so instead of having an effective 128-bit bus, you are running a 64-bit bus. That may not have a big impact on your gaming, but for anything that is system memory I/O intensive it would be a bottleneck. Basically, 2/4/8/16/32 are optimal numbers for memory, and 3/6/12 are not.
In terms of how much memory you should have, on the one hand since you have a 64-bit OS, you can use 8GB, but then again since almost all games are 32-bit, you wouldn't really see a performance increase (for gaming) in going over 4GB--have you noticed the "Recommended System Memory" for games is always 4GB? Eventually games will move to 64-bit and at that point might have larger memory requirements--I think Battlefield 3 was supposed to be 64-bit only, but then they released 32 & 64-bit versions.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Compaq PC's were the worst, you could not even upgrade them one bit.
Hence why I only do custom built PCs,
though I admit one I made was a trouble maker due to Video card (Voodoo3 3500TV AGP) and Sound Card (SBLive X-Gamer) disliking each other and required a few tries before they were happy to work with each other.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Aeioun, 6 is an "odd" memory config, which means you aren't running in dual-channel configurationHere's my rig. It's a few years old. I bought it as a package. I was wondering if it would be worth to buy more RAM or if I would have to buy a new rig completely to have more significant improvement. I do have friends that could build a rig for me though. I'd appreciate any tips.
- Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit
- Intel Core i5 650 @ 3.20GHz
- 6,00GB Dual-Channel DDR3
- 931GB Western Digital WDC (SATA)
- 1024MB ATI AMD Radeon HD 5800 Series
He could be running a Triple Channel Motherboard, as that one works in numbers of three to be optimum.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Nope, it's very Possible.
Triple-channel architecture is used with socket 1156\
...
The same applies to the Intel Core i3, Core i5 and Core i7-800 series, which are used on the LGA 1156 platforms (e.g., Intel P55).
...
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Goblin Squad Member
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OMG, Compaq computers were WTF Suck!! reputation. Is that really where ACER is now??Yes, it is but I'm unfamiliar with Acer as a product. I'll wait to see what the MVP of PFO requires and make a purchased at that time. 6-8 months from now is enough time to buy twice the computer for the same price now.Acer has been in the game a very long time, but the first decade was about third tier. Cheap, with plenty of problems. More recently they pushed themselves into the big leagues, at one time comparing favorably with Dell. I am not sure what their rep is currently but I suspect it is about where Compaq/HP PCs have fallen.
Computer Shopper has some favorable reviews. I haven't been keeping an eye on them lately.
Compaq once had the top name in PCs back in the day. They were solid machines. But that was back in the 8/16-bit 8088/8086, 80286 era, when most machines were for business rather than pleasure. They fell on hard times and were bought by Packard Bell I believe. Then Acer bought those. Acer is a Taipei outfit.
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Goblin Squad Member
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That's just not possible Azure :)
I went and looked at the Wikipage--you didn't read the preceding sentence: "AMD Socket AM3 processors do not use the DDR3 triple-channel architecture but instead use dual-channel DDR3 memory. The same applies to the Intel Core i3, Core i5 and Core i7-800 series, which are used on the LGA 1156 platforms (e.g., Intel P55).
It's not possible to have an i5 CPU and triple-channel memory.
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Goblin Squad Member
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- Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit
- Intel Core i5 650 @ 3.20GHz
- 6,00GB Dual-Channel DDR3
- 931GB Western Digital WDC (SATA)
- 1024MB ATI AMD Radeon HD 5800 Series
- Acer Aspire M5910 (CPU 1)
Thanks Mbando. My motherboard is Acer Aspire M5910 (CPU 1). So it might be worth while at some point to buy 2G more memory so that I can keep playing 64-bit games. Thanks for the info.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Ahhh..... no one is taking Windows 8.Would you?
They forgot about windows 3.1, and Windows ME
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Goblin Squad Member
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They forgot about windows 3.1, and Windows MEAhhh..... no one is taking Windows 8.Would you?
It's the commentary on Vista, 7, and 8 that I find compelling.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I never thought Vista was as crazy and unintuitive as people say it is.
I had no problem with Vista, either, and was happy to upgrade from XP.
However, I think it's undeniable that there's a general perception that Vista was bad - just like there's a general perception that EVE is toxic, even if some individuals feel differently.
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Goblin Squad Member
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They forgot about windows 3.1, and Windows MEAhhh..... no one is taking Windows 8.Would you?
Wasn't Win ME Win 2000? I skipped ME and leapt into Vista.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I didn't have a problem with Vista, until I discovered I have to re install it to switch it over to 64 bit. That re install requires, basically wiping my hard drive and starting from scratch.
I'm just going to wait until PFO EE is about to begin and then I'll buy a new computer.
Same here. Actually plan to wait until the 1st weekend of August to get the tax-free weekend for back to school stuff. Great time to get a computer.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Wasn't Win ME Win 2000? I skipped ME and leapt into Vista.They forgot about windows 3.1, and Windows MEAhhh..... no one is taking Windows 8.Would you?
Windows ME and Windows 2000 were released at the same time, but both used different OS cores.
The ME version used the Win 9X core of Windows 98, while the 2000 version used the NT core of WinNT 4.5.|
Goblin Squad Member
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It's weird how "skippy" Windows has been. WinXP is on it's last legs, but it was a solid OS, and Win 7 is solid too. Vista was problematic in a lot of ways, particularly in terms of 3rd party drivers. I haven't tried Windows 8, and but it sure look wrong to me as a user/system builder who wants control. I know MS thinks a cross-platform OS experience makes sense, but when you have to keep updating your OS to go back to old features, I think it shows you misjudged.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Wasn't Win ME Win 2000? I skipped ME and leapt into Vista.They forgot about windows 3.1, and Windows MEAhhh..... no one is taking Windows 8.Would you?
ME was the last of the old 95 architecture (Win32). 2000 was a continuation of the NT branch which was designed for business more than personal use. XP followed 2000, not ME because the security model on the old 95 platform was laughable.
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Goblin Squad Member
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| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
- Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit
- Intel Core i5 650 @ 3.20GHz
- 6,00GB Dual-Channel DDR3
- 931GB Western Digital WDC (SATA)
- 1024MB ATI AMD Radeon HD 5800 Series
- Acer Aspire M5910 (CPU 1)
Thanks Mbando. My motherboard is Acer Aspire M5910 (CPU 1). So it might be worth while at some point to buy 2G more memory so that I can keep playing 64-bit games. Thanks for the info.
I just looked up that board--it's four slots, and you've got the Acer stock 2x1/2x1 memory set-up (that's just weird). Their paired, so you have something like DIMM Slot 0/2 have either 2/2 or 1/1 GB modules, and then DIMM Slot 1/3 have the reverse. So you want to figure out which slots (0/2 or 1/3) have the 1GB modules, and replace them with 2GB modules.
You can DL CPU id to figure out which slot pair has which: www.cpuid.com/softwares/cpu-z.html
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Goblin Squad Member
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Actually I'm running Win 8 and it's great. It's just not great the way MicroSoft wants you to run it. I use Start8, which gives me a Win7 desktop and problem solved. Win8 is faster than Win7 in some areas, but I don't think I'd have chosen it - I was given a free copy when I built my machine.
My current config
Sabertooth Z77 motherboard
Intel Core i7 3770-k @ 3.50 GHz
32GB DDR-3 1600 RAM
GeForce GTX 660Ti
223 GB SSD system disk
2 x 2TB and 4 x 1 TB drives (the latter in a NAS)
2 monitors (looking to add a third by the time PfO comes out)
a really crappy keyboard and mouse.
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Goblin Squad Member
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They forgot about windows 3.1, and Windows MEAhhh..... no one is taking Windows 8.Would you?
So did everyone else.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I'm totally looking around to see if there are an deals that make it worth buying a system now compared to getting six more months of technology at the start of Q3.
Am I right in guessing that to get anything more than 2GB VRAM, like those 3 or 4 GB numbers, they'll have to be making full use of SLI video?
Right now I'm thinking/hoping 8-16GB memory with 2 GB VRAM and an i5 or equivalent processor will run PO without it being a molasses parade with more than a dozen people on screen.
Also I hope getting a system with Windows 7 is still an option then because the most positive I've ever felt towards 8 is, "Well at least it's not getting in the way right now".
What machines are you testing/recording on GoblinWorks?
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Goblin Squad Member
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Proxima Sin,
obviously we don't know exactly how demanding PFO will be. That being said, a mid-range GeForce card like the GTX660 + i-5 core CPU plays current games very smoothly at the highest settings. Games like Skyrim, or Far Cry 3 and Crysis (very demanding games graphically), play smoothly maxed out at 1080p (all 60+ framerates).
Remember, 40-60 fps is good gaming. Anything 60+ in framerate isn't going to be visible to the naked eye, while sub-30 fps is going to be a problem.
Anyway, I think a Core i-5 and a GTX650 or higher card will be money :)
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Goblin Squad Member
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@Mbando,
For those of use with basic computer skills, how do you "read" on your computer what are each of the components you have installed?
Any tips or links you can share?
(I have Windows 7, and I have basic idea were to find information, but not how to determine specific hardware parts.)
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Goblin Squad Member
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Azure is right--you can get basic info from within your OS, but if you want more detailed info, you will need additional software. I highly recommend CPU-Z, a small, safe, and best of all free little program that will tell detailed info on the CPU you have; details on memory amount, type, speed and what slots are filled/free; your motherboard type, BIOS revision, and what kind of graphic card interface the MB has; and your GPU type, clock and memory. For even more detail on your GPU and the graphics card it is on, including temperature monitoring, you can get a similar program called GPU-Z.