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Hi all,
I may be missing something obvious but I do not see anywhere in the Pathfinder books that explain how an aura works in general.
Do auras trespass line of sight?
Do they trespass line of effect?
Do they circle around walls and obstacles?
Do auras shut down when the creature falls unconscious?
Do they shut down when the creature dies?
The question came particularly during a combat with a Seugathi, but many other monsters have auras that leave a lot to manual judgement.
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You don't need to see something for an AoE, which is basically what an aura is to affect it. The rules generally call for line of affect.
As for shutting down when the creature goes unconscious that is a good question. Nobody plays it as the aura staying on, but I think it should. Once the creature dies it is an object(corpse) so no aura. Only spreads go around walls and nothing list an aura as a spread.
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The former three questions are exactly I wanna ask, espeacially the Line of Effect one.
A friend insists, Brust, Emanation, Spread are Area discription of spells,thus they do not apply to Su (most Auras are Su). That's why designer use ordinary words, such as "emit" to describe Aura (see below) instead of rule terms ("Brust", "Emanation", "Spread"). So his conclusion is if not mentioned, it's unnecesary Line of Effect between Aura origin and effect area.
And he insists, Aura of Courage (PAL) can affect the ally on the opposite side of wall!
I doubt that Line of Effect is the implicit precondition of Aura, but I can not find any rule to prove it.
e.x Aura of Madness (Madness Domain,CRB 45) use "emit"
Aura of Courage
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Cover
To determine whether your target has cover from your ranged attack, choose a corner of your square. If any line from this corner to any corner of the target’s square passes through a square or border that blocks line of effect or provides cover, or through a square occupied by a creature, the target has cover (+4 to AC)......
Total Concealment: If you have line of effect to a target but not line of sight, he is considered to have total concealment from you. You can’t attack an opponent that has total concealment, though you can attack into a square that you think he occupies. A successful attack into a square occupied by an enemy with total concealment has a 50% miss chance (instead of the normal 20% miss chance for an opponent with concealment).
...
Total Cover: If you don’t have line of effect to your target (that is, you cannot draw any line from your square to your target’s square without crossing a solid barrier), he is considered to have total cover from you. You can’t make an attack against a target that has total cover.
I suppose that your friend is arguing that he can fire arrows trough a wall too, as they aren't spells.
And that he can't fire an arrow against a creature with total concealment, as he hasn't a line of effect as it isn't a spell.Make him a fallen paladin for wilfully and continually twisting the truth.
If something has a point of emission, the path is blocked if the destination is behind total cover from the point of emission.
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Your friend's argument doesn't really stand up to the common sense definition that "an area is an area regardless of what produces it." He's trying to create a hole in the rules that clearly isn't intended. ("Because the definitions of effect areas are in the spell section of the rulebook, things that aren't spells don't have to follow those rules.") If you need quotes, try CRB page 221.
A number of classes and creatures gain the use of special abilities, many of which function like spells.
He can definitely try the "see, it doesn't explicitly say that a Supernatural Ability's effect works like a spell!" argument, but that's just trying to twist the language.
As for what kind of area it is - I just searched several online dictionaries and all of them have some variation of this as the definition of "emanate"
Emanate - the act of emitting; causing to flow forth
An emanation is what happens when you emit something.
Both of you, I think, may be misunderstanding the thrust of the argument laid down by Julien, at least as I’m reading it.
The madness domain uses the word “emit” which, as best as I understand it, is read as “it moves forth from other things.” To that end, the aura likely could or would be stopped by something interfering. What, exactly, is undefined, but presumably one’s personal interpretation and “common sense” (which is strictly a local, rather than common, effect, despite the name) as to what causes that interference. But it is emitted, and can presumptively be interrupted.
A paladin has an aura that surrounds him. He is immune and his allies in ten feet gain a bonus. That’s it. That’s the effect. Nothing is emitted and nothing is moving - at least as RAW.
It is worth noting, however, that RAW is never a good place to stop your arbitration. RatT would likely indicate that things can’t project through other things and that there is a tendency to assume the thing that has the aura is producing it (so, for example, a paladin aura shuts off if they’re unconscious) and this it “emits” from them. While there are no game mechanics talking about “emit” generally one is expected (RAI) to use “close enough” rules to equate to other things and ally the always-nebulous “common sense” to anything, making Diego and Belafon’s answer liiiiikely what a developer would comment on (though such expectations have been subverted before and - though intelligent folks - some of the way they phrase it can be a little harsh :D). I mean, mechanically, “dead” has no rules, so could one get up and walk around? No, that would defy the idea of being “dead.” Auras are a bit more nebulous.
Would I allow it to pass through? Some things yes, probably. I read the rules for the paladin aura and go, “yeah, that reads like it’s a nebulous divine presence that exists and probably passes through walls or whatever” but I certainly wouldn’t fault others for doing it differently, and generally understand why they do so.
UGG. Phone silliness cost me my edits, and that means that there are several points of clarification that I want to make that I probably will not be able to make it in time because of the edit window. Alas! Well, can’t do anything now, as I’m out of time.
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This is a continuation of another thread (THIS ONE to be exact), and I think what Julian is actually looking for is a rules citation to take to the player.
I don't know if there is a direct quote we could get (and I'm on the us on my way to work so I can't really search for it), but for the record the rules aren't written in legal-jargon style specifics. The devs have said many times that they wrote the rules in "common sense" language, meaning a slightly different wording is almost always an accident and not meant to be taken as proof of an ability being different (I say "almost" always because there are some notable exceptions to this - the "attack action" being the first that comes to mind).
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I get what you are saying, but let's make a few examples of what will be affected if auras will work trough full cover now (unless they have specific text enforcing the need for LoS/LoE).
Fear Aura (Su) The use of this ability is a free action. The aura can freeze an opponent (as in the case of a mummy’s despair) or function like the fear spell. Other effects are possible. A fear aura is an area effect. The descriptive text gives the size and kind of the area.
Stench (Ex) A creature with the stench special ability secretes an oily chemical that nearly every other creature finds offensive. All living creatures (except those with the stench special ability) within 30 feet must succeed on a Fortitude save (DC 10 + 1/2 stench creature’s racial HD + stench creature’s Con modifier; the exact DC is given in the creature’s descriptive text) or be sickened. The duration of the sickened condition is given in the creature’s descriptive text. Creatures that successfully save cannot be affected by the same creature’s stench for 24 hours. A delay poison or neutralize poison spell removes the effect from the sickened creature. Creatures with immunity to poison are unaffected, and creatures resistant to poison receive their normal bonus on their saving throws.
Format: stench (DC 15, 10 rounds); Location: Aura.
Protective Aura (Su) Against attacks made or effects created by evil creatures, this ability provides a +4 def lection bonus to AC and a +4 resistance bonus on saving throws to anyone within 20 feet of the angel. Otherwise, it functions as a magic circle against evil effect and a lesser globe of invulnerability, both with a radius of 20 feet (caster level equals angel’s HD). The defensive benefits from the circle are not included in an angel’s statistics block.
Aura of Menace (Su) A righteous aura surrounds archons that fight or get angry. Any hostile creature within a 20-foot radius of an archon must succeed on a Will save to resist its effects. The save DC varies with the type of archon, is Charisma-based, and includes a +2 racial bonus. Those who fail take a –2 penalty on attacks, AC, and saves for 24 hours or until they successfully hit the archon that generated the aura. A creature that has resisted or broken the effect cannot be affected again by the same archon’s aura for 24 hours.
Unnatural Aura (Su) Animals do not willingly approach within 30 feet of a wraith, unless a master makes a DC 25 Handle Animal, Ride, or wild empathy check.
And that is only from pag. 278-317 of Bestiary 1.
Nothing terribly bad, but it piles up and affect all the books. I think that most GM considers all auras an emanation from the creature that has it unless the specific ability clearly says something different.
In one adventure there are 1,000 wraiths bound in the wall of the structure, they will exit them only if a section of the wall is damaged or the master of the structure call them.
A player with an animal companion would have to make at least a couple of checks for every 5' square his animal companion enter, as it will enter within the aura radius of multiple wraiths. Not exactly my description of an enjoyable afternoon of gaming.
At best Julien player would get away with saying that the auras that aren't emanations and don't target something don't need a line of effect, but that means that their effect is noticeable regardless of the intervening terrain, too (if you have an ability to sense them).
Edit: thanks for the link, MrCharisma.
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Thank you all for your answers and your literature retrieval work.
I think I got both the boundary of RAW and what "common sense" says. The rules end at
A number of classes and creatures gain the use of special abilities, many of which function like spells.
while "common sense" indicates Aura need Line of Effect and can not across walls!
Lastly, the friend just answered my rule question, we just argue on rules, not with each other. Thanks all the same for your concern, which make me feel group and not alone.