I think we can definitely open up some of these abilities to work elsewhere.
Leyline Casting can be changed to requiring, say, a minute of meditation anywhere. It's prohibitive enough to be once a combat, which is what matters most.
We can even drop it down to fifth level to replace herb lore and work from there, mayhaps.
The end goals here, I feel, are-
1) Keep Wild Shaping as a solid, but still-weaker-than-druid option.
2) Allow Hexes while wild shaped, which is awesome and a key feature of this class. Heck, that should be one of the two main draws. This is what makes the class, if you ask me, and doesn't really need a buff- solid wild shaping + hexing equals awesome for so many reasons.
3) Leyline Casting allowing you to buff a spell of your choice. It needs to be limited; once a combat at -most-, say. This should be the second main draw.
4) The ability to use herbs, etc., as random (expensive) material components or in some other mystical way. This adds a lot of flavor to the class.
Did you want to throw together a revised version and post it Raider? then we can go from there? Seems you already have some ideas for tweaks and changes.
Hello.
Why is there not a Cleric/Druid or a Cleric/Wizard?
Is it because there are a Druid/Cleric and a Wizard/Cleric?
Just curious.
Thanks.
Hello.
Why is there not a Cleric/Druid or a Cleric/Wizard?
Is it because there are a Druid/Cleric and a Wizard/Cleric?
Just curious.
Thanks.
The only reason is that no-one has seen fit to create these particular MCAs. Yet. It may also be that the limited options for Wizard and Cleric (apart from Schools and Domains) haven't made them attractive for designers. Now you bring it up, I'm sure someone will be suitably inspired.
I thought there *was* a Cleric/Druid...
Hello.
Why is there not a Cleric/Druid or a Cleric/Wizard?
Is it because there are a Druid/Cleric and a Wizard/Cleric?
Just curious.
Thanks.
The only reason is that no-one has seen fit to create these particular MCAs. Yet. It may also be that the limited options for Wizard and Cleric (apart from Schools and Domains) haven't made them attractive for designers. Now you bring it up, I'm sure someone will be suitably inspired.
I thought there *was* a Cleric/Druid...
really what he is trying to say here is you are welcome to add an idea to the list that are waiting for there turn to be worked on.
@Elghinn
I'd rather crowdsource this one, really.
@Elghinn
I'd rather crowdsource this one, really.
OK! Lets get on this one then, gang. :D
Hello.
Why is there not a Cleric/Druid or a Cleric/Wizard?
Is it because there are a Druid/Cleric and a Wizard/Cleric?
Just curious.
Thanks.
Welcome, Scary Harpy! Most MCAs are created if/when someone has a well developed concept. There are many combinations thatccur, and soon there will be even more with the upcoming Advanced Class Guide. Inspiration s a BIG part of these. So, if you have a concept for a Cleric/Wizard or Cleric/Druid, feel free to throw yourself into the queue. just makesure you follow the fomat at the beginning of this thread.
Pretty sure scary harpy has been here before, and if not, has definitely championed us on another thread.
And no Browman that's not what I meant, but it certainly does apply! ;) i would never suggest for anyone to make anything remotely related to Wizards! ;p
By all means suggest something if you like scary harpy
I wouldn't mind the sage being wisdom based personally.
@Elghinn
I'd rather crowdsource this one, really.
Nice call Raider!
My only comment at the moment is that I'm not getting the leyline stuff from the flavor, so I'd like to see that link improved between flavor and mechanics.
I wouldn't mind the sage being wisdom based personally.
To get your Wisdom-based arcane caster? :D
@OSW
Yeah, I think we could make Ley Line casting a more prominent aspect.
A cleric/wizard for me is someone who views magic through the lens of the divine. A mystic or cabalist. I would give it cleric spellcasting minus domains, then add in limited wizard spells on top of that, maybe one per level from a few schools. No channel energy. This doesn't exist, and there are not many cleric ATs out there - probably because it is hard to take much away from the cleric, so the design space is small.
Wizard/cleric would be theurgy; the art to replicate miracles by invoking events from holy texts. This is the guy who performs arcane calculations on the text of the holy book to find the hidden secrets. A wizardly approach to divine magic. Replicating through intelligence what others do through piety. In game terms perhaps a wizard with wider spell access but no school. Or perhaps with domains instead of school. Sacred thaumaturge exists in this spot. Thaumaturgy and teurgy is not the exact same thing, but close enough.
Druid/Wizard is a nature mystic who sees through the veil of nature and reaches into the raw power beneath and grabs it with both hands. An elementalist or primalist. Add elemental wizard schools to a druid in place of some of the druids special abilities. I see a druid/wizard exists, the spellfused warden.
Wizard/Druid is a wizard able to meld raw magical forces into life, and thus able to work the life-giving (and life-destroying) powers of druidism in addition to normal wizardry, again probably as an alternate to an arcane school. There is a terramancer wizard/druid already.
Another take on a wizard/druid is a wizard that specializes in transformation magic, having abilities to improve her personal polymorph spells so that they resemble wild shape - but into any creature she can transform into. Massive duration extension on all polymorph spells, but perhaps a risk to get stuck in an alternate shape. Hm, I actually like this idea enough top work on it. Plymanth perhaps? Or Wildshaper? But to really work, such a class needs 3/4 base attack, so maybe better based off magus or alchemist. Druid/Alchemist sounds doable. There already is an alchemist/druid.
Too late now for me to look if my ideas here are like the actually existing classes.
I wouldn't mind the sage being wisdom based personally.To get your Wisdom-based arcane caster? :D
@OSW
Yeah, I think we could make Ley Line casting a more prominent aspect.
*cough* i don't believe i know what you are talking about.
<_< >_>
Wisdom based arcane casting, blaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh.
No way I'm letting that travesty happen to the Elder Sage!
Being sleepless (too much coffee on game night) I spent the night writing out a Arcane Mystic proposal. This is a cleric/wizard MCA per @scary harpy's suggestion above.
It's actually fun to try to dream up a combination on demand.
An arcane mystic serves a deity or an ideal, but unlike a cleric his powers do not come directly from worship. Instead he studies the lore of his faith much as a wizard studies arcane secrets, gaining the arcane ability to cast cleric spells. The deep insight into the world gained in this way also allows the arcane mystic to master certain arcane spells.
Reservations for that I wrote this very late.
Being sleepless (too much coffee on game night) I spent the night writing out a Arcane Mystic proposal. This is a cleric/wizard MCA per @scary harpy's suggestion above.
It's actually fun to try to dream up a combination on demand.
An arcane mystic serves a deity or an ideal, but unlike a cleric his powers do not come directly from worship. Instead he studies the lore of his faith much as a wizard studies arcane secrets, gaining the arcane ability to cast cleric spells. The deep insight into the world gained in this way also allows the arcane mystic to master certain arcane spells.
just so you know, under where it says wizard secondary it references mystic dancer. Also, whats the deal with the shield stuff?
just so you know, under where it says wizard secondary it references mystic dancer. Also, whats the deal with the shield stuff?
Thx, corrected mystic dancer (copy-paste error).
Shield? Well, just a flavor thing really. Mage armor + shield has a more arcane feeling than the regular armor kit of the cleric, while having about the same utility. It gives 2 less AC than medium armor at the cost of casting a spell, but with no encumbrance or armor check penalty. A wash, balance-wise IMO.
Another thing I like to do is mage a class feel more magical by removing armor and replace it with this somewhat weird mage armor + stacking with bracers of defense thing. For classes with shield I then generally replace the shield with a stacking AC bonus for not using the off hand, but that seemed a bit too controversial for this MCA. So there they are, unarmored but with shields.
The Pathfinder cleric has medium armor + shield normally, but is just a feat away from heavy armor - it has no disincentives from taking heavy armor. The same is true of the new playtest Slayer. I feel this is a weakness Pazio introduced in these designs compared to 3.5, but I can also see how it actually makes the choice to get more armor or not a meaningful one.
Sorry for threadnapping by posting the link and this, but it was a tad quiet here and I really was sleepless.
# Arcane Mystic
A very simple MCA. I like the expended spell list at the cost of the spell book mechanics, this is a good and effective balance point.
The arcane school allow a similar number of spell per-day than a normal cleric, but with more versatility since you can choose which bonus spell you prepare in your school list. This versatility is the reason why this MCA loose some special ability, one arcane school giving less powers than two domains. Well done.
About the shield thing. If you want to increase the wizard aspect of this MCA, you could remove shield proficiency and give the wizard's Scribe Scroll at level 1 instead. You now have a very casting oriented cleric that have to invest a lot of feat to gains a true cleric AC. Your guy can also select the abjuration school and gains shield, as the spell, instead of using a shield when being unable to wear any armor (since shield are imo more complicated to use than simply putting on a leather armor, this makes more sense I think).
To Elghinn : I'am back ^^ Ready to go on the swashbuckler whenever you want.
I've done some tweaking, and focused on the Leyline Casting, Nature and terrain aspect, wildshapng, and wild hexes. There isn't a lot different, but it is more focused on the nature aspect and streamlined. Swaps are also included.
Within the circles of the practitioners of nature magic, and among the secreted and hidden covens of the witching power, they speak of an ancient wiseman of the land; this then is the elder sage. Not completely one with nor wholly apart from the natural world, the elder sage spends her time within a particular terrain–studying it, learning from it. This then is of whom the druids only whisper, at whom the witches stare and regard as both crazed and touched by the powers of divine patronage. A strange and awe-inspiring enigma, the magic of the fey and the roar of beasts do not give her fear, for within the elder sage is the very magic of the world itself.
Primary Class: Witch.
Secondary Class: Druid.
Alignment: Any.
Hit Dice: d6.
Bonus Skills and Ranks: An elder sage adds three druid class skills to her list of class skills in addition to the normal witch skills. The elder sage gains a number of ranks at each level of the multiclass archetype equal to 2 + Int modifier.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: The elder sage is proficient with all simple weapons. She is also proficient with all natural attacks (claw, bite, and so forth) of any form she assumes with wild shape (see below). An elder sage is not proficient with any type of armor or shield. Armor interferes with an elder sage’s gestures, which can cause her spells with somatic components to fail.
Diminished Spellcasting: The elder sage casts arcane spells drawn from the witch spells list, but gains one fewer spell of each level than normal. If this reduces the number to 0, she may cast spells of that level only if his Intelligence allows bonus spells of that level. In addition, an elder sage adds all summon nature’s ally spells, and all spells from the Animal and Plant cleric domains to her spell list. She otherwise learns, prepares, and casts spells as a witch of equal level. She also gains bonus spells if she has a high Intelligence modifier.
Terrain Patron: At 1st level, when an elder sage gains her familiar, she must also select a patron. This patron is a mysterious force of nature that holds influence over a specific terrain, and grants the elder sage powers associated to that terrain. An elder sage selects one of the following terrains: cold, desert, forest, jungle, mountain, plains, swamp, underground, or water.
At 2nd level, and every two levels thereafter, an elder sage’s patron adds new spells to an elder sage’s list of spells known. These spells are also automatically added to the list of spells stored by the familiar. The spells gained depend upon the terrain patron chosen. Each terrain patron is listed by its theme below. Its actual name is up to the GM and the witch to decide.
Cold: 1st—frostbite, 2nd—aspect of the bear, 3rd—sleet storm, 4th—wall of ice, 5th—aspect of the wolf , 6th—freezing sphere, 7th—wind walk, 8th—polar ray, 9th—polar midnight.
Forest: 1st—speak with animals, 2nd—barkskin, 3rd—plant shape (as stone shape, but affects trees and shrubs), 4th—summon natures ally IV (animals only), 5th—awaken, 6th—summon natures ally VI (animals only), 7th—liveoak, 8th—summon nature’s ally VIII (animals only), 9th—transport via plant.
Jungle: 1st—glide, 2nd—tar ball, 3rd—venomous bolt, 4th—arboreal hammer, 5th—blessing of the salamander, 6th—swarm skin, 7th—creeping doom, 8th—wall of lava, 9th—shambler.
Mountains: 1st—stone fist, 2nd—stone call, 3rd—cloak of winds, 4th—stoneskin, 5th—geyser, 6th—suffocation, 7th—flesh to stone, 8th—reverse gravity, 9th—clashing rocks.
Plains: 1st—mount, 2nd—chameleon stride, 3rd—haste, 4th—aspect of the stag, 5th—control winds, 6th—find the path, 7th—whirlwind, 8th—animal shapes, 9th—worldwave.
Swamp: 1st—hydraulic push, 2nd—burst of nettles, 3rd—lily pad stride, 4th—cape of wasps, 5th—insect plague, 6th—mass fester, 7th—animate plants, 8th—blood mist, 9th—shambler.
Underground: 1st—detect aberration, 2nd—stone call, 3rd—deeper darkness, 4th—echolocation, 5th—wall of stone, 6th—conjure black pudding, 7th—statue (looking like a stalagmite or stalactite), 8th—earthquake, 9th—imprisonment.
Water: 1st—hydraulic push, 2nd—slipstream, 3rd—water breathing, 4th—freedom of movement, 5th—black tentacles, 6th—freezing sphere, 7th—animal shapes (aquatic creatures only), 8th—seamantle, 9th—tsunami.
This ability otherwise functions as and replaces witch’s patron and patron spells.
Witch’s Familiar (Su): This is exactly like the witch’s ability of the same name, except that the elder same must select a familiar from her patron terrain.
Hex: This is exactly like the witch ability of the same name, except that the elder sage gains a hex at 1st level and every three levels thereafter. In addition, the elder sage adds the following hex to her list.
Entangling (Su): An elder sage can use her surroundings to bind her enemies. This acts as an entangle spell, using the elder sage's caster level. The elder sage can only have one entangling hex in effect at a time.
Sage Sense (Ex): At 2nd level, an elder sage gains a +2 bonus on Craft (alchemy), Knowledge (geography), knowledge (nature), Perception, and Survival skill checks when she is in her patron terrain. An elder sage traveling through her patron terrain normally leaves no trail and cannot be tracked (though she may leave a trail if he so chooses). In addition, she gains the Eschew Material feat while in her patron terrain. This ability replaces the hex gained at 2nd level.
Trackless Step (Ex): At 3rd level, an elder sage gains the druid’s trackless step ability. This ability, leyline casting, wild shape, wisdom of the patron, and sagacity of the wild replace spells lost due to diminished spellcasting.
Leyline Casting (Su): At 4th level, the elder sage has unearthed a deep and long-forgotten secret concerning the bond between her magic and the land beneath her feet. By meditating and engaging in a ritual that takes 1 minute to perform, the elder sage increases the effective caster level of her next spell by +1 by drawing upon the natural energies of the land.
At 10th level, the elder sage can cast her spells as if it had been cast using the Lingering Spell feat metamagic while.
At 16th level, the elder sage can cast her spells as if it had been cast using the Elemental Spell metamagic feat. The type of energy that the spell deals, whether fully or in part is associated with her terrain patron as follows: cold (cold), desert (fire), forest (sonic), jungle (sonic), mountain (fire), plains (electricity), swamp (acid), underground (acid), or water (cold).
An elder sage can use this ability a number of times per day equal to her Wisdom modifier, but only once per combat. If the elder sage leaves the terrain in which she performed the ritual, the effect is immediately lost. The elder sage must perform the ritual again to reactivate the effect.
Wild Hexes: At 6th level, an elder sage can use hexes while using her wild shape ability, and substitutes various noises and gestures for any verbal and somatic components of a hex. This ability replaces the hex gained at 6th level.
Wild Shape (Su): Starting at 6th level, the elder sage can use wild shape once per day, and an additional time per day every three levels thereafter, to a maximum of five times per day at 18th level. At 6th level, wild shape functions as beast shape I. At 9th level, wild shape functions as beast shape II. At 12th level, wild shape functions as plant shape I. At 15th level, wild shape functions as plant shape II. This ability otherwise functions as the druid ability of the same name.
Improved Sage Sense (Ex): At 8th level, the bonuses granted by an elder sage’s sage sense increases to +4. In addition, her Eschew Material feat allows her to ignore material components of 100 GP or less while in her patron terrain. This ability replaces the hex gained at 8th level.
Major Hex: This is exactly like the witch ability of the same name, except that an elder sage can select following new major hex that restricted to the elder sage multiclass archetype.
Treeskin (Su): An elder sage can draw upon the trees around her to toughen her own skin, or that of an ally. This acts as the barkskin spell, using the elder sage's caster level. Once a creature has been affected by the treeskin hex, it cannot be affected again for 24 hours.
Wisdom of the Patron (Su): At 10th level, whenever an elder sage prepares her spells in her patron terrain, she can simultaneously prepare a single leyline casting and apply it to a single prepared spell. In so doing, the elder sage’s chosen spell retains the benefits of this leyline casting, even if she leaves the terrain where her ritual was performed. She can use this ability once per day at 10th level, and an additional time per day every four levels thereafter.
Greater Sage Sense (Ex): At 14th level, the bonuses granted by an elder sage’s sage sense increases to +4. In addition, her Eschew Material feat allows her to ignore material components of 250 GP or less while in her patron terrain. This ability replaces the hex gained at 8th level.
Grand Hex: This is exactly like the awitch ability of the same name, except that at 19th level, an elder sage can select a grand hex whenever she could select a hex. In addition, an elder sage can select following new major hex that restricted to the elder sage multiclass archetype.
Natural Ally (Su): An elder sage with this hex can use summon nature’s ally VII once per day using the elder sage's caster level, but summoning them takes 1 full round of chanting, dancing, and communing with her familiar. The summoned creature(s) remain until dismissed, or for 24 hours, whichever comes first. The elder sage can only have one natural ally hex in effect at a time.
Sagacity of the Wild (Su): At 20th level, the magic of the land throbs in the elder sage’s veins, ready to answer her call. She no longer takes penalties to her ability scores for aging and cannot be magically aged. Any such penalties that she has already taken, however, remain in place. Age bonuses still accrue, and the elder sage still dies of old age when her time is up. In addition, an elder sage can prepare a leyline casting along with a full-round action, once per day.
Hex: The following hexes compliment the elder sage multiclass archetype: Beast of Ill-Omen**, Blight*, Cauldron*, Charm*, Disguise*, Entangling, Feral Speech**, Fortune*, Healing*, Misfortune*, Slumber*, Tongues*, Ward*, or Water Lung**. (*Advanced Player’s Guide, **Ultimate Magic)
Major Hex: The following major hexes compliment the elder sage multiclass archetype: Beast Eye**, Hidden Home**, Hoarfrost**, Major Healing*, Speak in Dreams**, Treeskin, Visions*, Weather Control*, or Witch’s Brew**.
Grand Hex: The following grand hexes compliment the elder sage multiclass archetype: Eternal Slumber*, Life Giver*, Natural Ally, Natural Disaster*, or Summon Spirit**.
Table: Elder Sage
Base
Class Attack Fort Ref Will Spells per Day
Level Bonus Save Save Save Special 0 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th 7th 8th 9th
1st +0 +2 +0 +2 Cantrips, diminished spellcasting, hex, 2 0 — — — — — — — — patron spells, terrain patron, witch’s familiar
2nd +1 +3 +0 +3 Sage sense 3 1 — — — — — — — —
3rd +1 +3 +1 +3 Trackless step 3 1 0 — — — — — — —
4th +2 +4 +1 +4 Hex 3 2 1 — — — — — — —
5th +2 +4 +1 +4 Leyline casting 3 2 1 0 — — — — — —
6th +3 +5 +2 +5 Wild hexes, wild shape 1/day 3 2 2 1 — — — — — —
7th +3 +5 +2 +5 Hex 3 3 2 1 0 — — — — —
8th +4 +6 +2 +6 Improved sage sense 3 3 2 2 1 — — — — —
9th +4 +6 +3 +6 Wild shape 2/day 3 3 3 2 1 0 — — — —
10th +5 +7 +3 +7 Hex, major hex, wisdom of the patron 3 3 3 2 2 1 — — — —
11th +5 +7 +3 +7 Improved herb lore 3 3 3 3 2 1 0 — — —
12th +6/+1 +8 +4 +8 Wild shape 3/day 3 3 3 3 2 2 1 — — —
13th +6/+1 +8 +4 +8 Hex 3 3 3 3 3 2 1 0 — —
14th +7/+2 +9 +4 +9 Greater sage sense 3 3 3 3 3 2 2 1 — —
15th +7/+2 +9 +5 +9 Wild shape 4/day 3 3 3 3 3 3 2 1 0 —
16th +8/+3 +10 +5 +10 Hex 3 3 3 3 3 3 2 2 1 —
17th +8/+3 +10 +5 +10 Leyline casting 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 2 1 0
18th +9/+4 +11 +6 +11 Wild shape 5/day 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 2 2 1
19th +9/+4 +11 +6 +11 Hex, grand hex 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 2 2
20th +10/+5 +12 +6 +12 Sagacity of the wild 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3
@Kelazan
We'll get you you after SAMAS, if we ever get some reply from our comments. Though, I may just trhow something together and throw it up so we can get moving on it.
@Starfox
For your Cleric/Wizard concept, something that may be unique/flavorful, is to not limit the normal Channel Energy ability.
1) Allow a choice at 1st level, to either channel energy as a cleric, or channel arcane energy as a wizard. The cleric version would allow choice of the Channel Energy feats as normal. The Channel Arcane Energy would allow the MCA a choice of an energy type (acid, cold, electricity, fire, force, and perhaps sonic). The channel energy abiltiy would then deal this type of energy damage, but likely in a ray or cone effect. Then, we can create new Arcane Channeling feats to allow alternate effects (say changing effect to cone, burst, etc.), or whatever we think would be flavorful.
2) Alternately, the abve stuff for Arcane Channeling could simply be created as Feats, just like the Channeling Feats section. Likely a choice of a base feat - Arcane Channeling, that allow the cleric to channel arcane energy instead of divine energy (likely a secondary wizard level prerequisite, for normal multiclassing). Then a bunch of additional Arcane Channeling feats.
This would utilise the cleric's primary class feature, and allow it to function normally, or allow it to be altered to make a more wizardy feeling or choice, depending on wht path the player wantes to go. Then, instead of 2 domains, the MCA chooses 1 arcane school to replace one of his domains, but using the mechanic restrictions of domains.
So, he's be able to cast his school spells in the domain spell slot. Likely, as there is no specific list of school spells, like they do for domain spells, we'd either need to make it customable, allowing the MCA to choose the 1st-9th level spells he wants as his "arcane school/domain" spells, and once chosen, can't be changed; OR we choose the spells that are considered the "school domain spells".
Anyways, this is for later in the thread. So, store your ideas (including these ones) and if you want, I'll add this to the queue for later. It think the Cahnneling is really a great way as how to make the MCA cleric or wizard.
I've done some tweaking, and focused on the Leyline Casting, Nature and terrain aspect, wildshapng, and wild hexes. There isn't a lot different, but it is more focused on the nature aspect and streamlined. Swaps are also included.
** spoiler omitted **...
Just wanted to add, I really think the ability's Raider included in the original version were quite balanced, as many were very situational. With his suggested tweaks and my streamlining, i think it still is, and we now have a lit of the swaps for all the abilities.
Elder Sage
I like the terrain bounding of this MCA and the terrain patron are a very good way to introduce it.
With 4 fewer hex than a witch, diminished spellcasting and the fact this class can't hope to fight using wild shape (sorry...bad BAB), I think our Elder don't have a lot of option in combat situation. What we have here is a awesome concept, but can he stands 4 encounter a day ?
I think this guy should have more freedom with is spellcasting to balance is diminished spell slots and hex. Druids can spontaneously cast summon natural ally: why our Elder sage could not spontaneously cast his patron spells or summon terrain related creatures ? We only have to include this in the terrain patron entry. Almost half of his class features are already terrain related (and so, very circumstantial), I don't think it would break it.
I also thing that Leyline casting should be usable outside the patron's domains, but more powerful if within (so it doesn't suppress the class feature whenever the elder isn't in X terrain). A +2 CL when he is in the patron's terrain and +1 outside could work (I mean, he can't spam it, he has diminished spellcasting and it takes 1 minute to prepare).
# ELDER SAGE
This is now very thematic while still being flexible. The patron domain is a bonus rather than something you are truly dependent on. Me like.
Agree with Kelazan that is is a little anemic at the moment and like his propositions.
How about not giving it reduces spells/day, but instead forcing it to memorize one patron spell (minimum) each level? Kind of like school spells in reverse - you get one fewer spell slots, but to compensate you get a patron spell slot, so you end up at the original number of slots.
Also, Natural Ally should somehow scale when you level up. Yes, I know you get it late, but in a mythic campaign, such an ally would be very much behind towards the end.
# Arcane Mystic
Sure, put this at the end of the queue. Sorry again for pushing this too fast.
I could see such arcane channeling, but its not something I'm overly enthusiastic about. IMO, channeling really isn't worth using as an attack, it is much more useful as a post-combat heal.
Also this idea fits best with the evocation school. Which leads to a further idea; maybe we could give each arcane school a variant option for how to use channel energy? I'll see what I can do on the backburner.
The idea to make channel energy (or arcane channeling) into a ray is one I like (and have used). I was tempted to include it in this version, but ended up making the Arcane Mystic such that it can be combined with another cleric AT that allows channeling rays.
#Elder Sage
I like the terrain bounding of this MCA and the terrain patron are a very good way to introduce it.
With 4 fewer hex than a witch, diminished spellcasting and the fact this class can't hope to fight using wild shape (sorry...bad BAB), I think our Elder don't have a lot of option in combat situation. What we have here is a awesome concept, but can he stands 4 encounter a day?
Glad you like the terrain aspect. I felt it needed it, to give it a bit more focus.
How'd this for the issue with Wild Shape? Gains a BAB of a druid of equal level only while wild shaping? I think that this now makes it a usefull ability and limits the benefits only to this ability. '
Wild Shape (Su): Starting at 6th level, the elder sage can use the druid’s wild shape ability once per day, and an additional time per day every three levels thereafter, to a maximum of five times per day at 18th level. At 6th level, wild shape functions as beast shape I. At 9th level, wild shape functions as beast shape II. At 12th level, wild shape functions as plant shape I. At 15th level, wild shape functions as plant shape II. In addition, whenever the elder sage uses wild shape, she gains the base attack bonus of a druid equal to her elder sage level.
I think this guy should have more freedom with is spellcasting to balance is diminished spell slots and hex. Druids can spontaneously cast summon natural ally: why our Elder sage could not spontaneously cast his patron spells or summon terrain related creatures ? We only have to include this in the terrain patron entry. Almost half of his class features are already terrain related (and so, very circumstantial), I don't think it would break it.
I like this. I think we'll keep it similar to the druid but a bit more restricted.
Terrain Patron:...blah...
In addition, an elder sage can channel stored spell energy into summon nature’s ally spells that she hasn't prepared ahead of time. She can “lose” a prepared spell in order to cast any summon nature’s ally spell of the same level or lower. All creature spontaneously summoned by a summon nature’s ally spell must be from the terrain she is currently in, or from her patron terrain. This ability otherwise functions as and replaces witch’s patron and patron spells.
I also thing that Leyline casting should be usable outside the patron's domains, but more powerful if within (so it doesn't suppress the class feature whenever the elder isn't in X terrain). A +2 CL when he is in the patron's terrain and +1 outside could work (I mean, he can't spam it, he has diminished spellcasting and it takes 1 minute to prepare).
It already is usable in any terrain. This one has no terrain restriction. I don't know about the +2 caster level while in her terrain. What do other's think on that?
I added the following tweak to make Leyline Casting a bit more flexible. Alos, I think the metamagic feat addition to a leyline spell within her patron terrain without expending a higher slot is better than increasing the caster level to +2. MAkes use of metamgic feats, if she chooses them.
Leyline Casting (Su): At 4th level, the elder sage has unearthed a deep and long-forgotten secret concerning the bond between her magic and the land beneath her feet. By meditating and engaging in a ritual that takes 1 minute to perform, the elder sage increases the effective caster level of her next spell by +1 by drawing upon the natural energies of the land.
If the elder sage is within her patron terrain, she can also add a single metamagic feat that she knows to her next spell without expending a higher level spell slot. This metamagic feat must have a +1 level increase. At 9th level, she can add a metamagic feat with a +2 level increase or lower without expending a higher level spell slot.
At 10th level, the elder sage can use leyline casting to enhance her spell as if it had been cast using the Lingering Spell metamagic feat.
At 16th level, the elder sage can use leyline casting to enhance her spell as if it had been cast using the Elemental Spell metamagic feat. The type of energy that the spell deals, whether fully or in part is associated with the terrain she is currently in. Alternatively, she can deal energy damage according to her patron terrain. Associated terrain energy damage is as follows: cold (cold), desert (fire), forest (sonic), jungle (sonic), mountain (fire), plains (electricity), swamp (acid), underground (acid), or water (cold).
An elder sage can use this ability a number of times per day equal to her Wisdom modifier, but only once per combat. If the elder sage leaves the terrain in which she performed the ritual, the effect is immediately lost. The elder sage must perform the ritual again to reactivate the effect.
This is now very thematic while still being flexible. The patron domain is a bonus rather than something you are truly dependent on. Me like.
Agree with Kelazan that is is a little anemic at the moment and like his propositions.
See above.
How about not giving it reduces spells/day, but instead forcing it to memorize one patron spell (minimum) each level? Kind of like school spells in reverse - you get one fewer spell slots, but to compensate you get a patron spell slot, so you end up at the original number of slots.
What do others think. Would doing this, in conjunction with what I've included above be OP? OR would that still work? If we go this way, then I think we'd still keep it diminished spellcasting, but just throw in the +1 for her terrain spells beside each level enetry.
Also, Natural Ally should somehow scale when you level up. Yes, I know you get it late, but in a mythic campaign, such an ally would be very much behind towards the end.
I think we'll juat keep it summon monster VII and leave it at that, as a witch normally doesn't get the spell anyways. Plus, inf you noticed, it lasts all day r until dismissed.
I think with the things you added it should be good Elghinn. I particularly like the improvement to wildshape.
well my concerns have been addressed here...Raider why you hate'n on the wisdom arcane caster huh?
#Elder Sage
Okay, glancing it over... the free metamagic on the leylines worries me. Big time. This is giving a free feat and free spell (slot) level increase... I seriously think we should head AWAY from this, and fast. Like, drive in the other direction, very easy to break this.
Also, I don't like the idea of increasing Wild Shape's BAB. Keeping it at wizardly rate is one of the good balancing points, and also points towards using hexes.
I do like the terrain patron thing though, we should definitely keep that.
@Kelezan- I think you're missing a vast point, if you believe this guy should be wild shaping and stomping into combat as a bear or something :S
@christos- There's no reason for one? It hits flavor in the nads? Jason has already said it ain't happening? >:P
@Everyone commenting on Elder Sage- Guys, the class in original form was playtested and found to work quite well. We don't need to change it THAT much, we just need to update and add a little versatility; not so much a buff to power level, which is what most of you are suggesting. This isn't a need to reinvent the wheel, here.
Elder Sage
I don't like the way you squeezed combat viability in the Wild shape entry. According to me, we should assume that this wild shape is more an utility/mobility power than a true battle option. Using wild shape to shift into a squirrel is a great AC boost and help with stealth and ranged touch attack. The ability is not useless, but I think it don't fill the same needs than a druid in tiger/shredding mode.
Instead of boosting the Elder BAB in wild shape, why don't we go further in the casting aspect? Keeping the diminished spell casting, but adding, as Starfox suggested, fixed bonus spell based on the terrain patron list.
With this and the spontaneous summoning, the elder sage should close the power gap with a standard witch in my opinion.
the Ley lines should be either +1 caster level or gets to add a metamagic feat he already knows for free to a spell he prepared ahead of time. Perhaps preventing him from using it on his top level of spells? That way he cannot supercharge his top tier spells.
@ Raiderrpg - I was only explaining that the elder sage wild shape isn't as powerful as for a druid. I was worried about the apparent weakness of the MCA and was showing this to nuance the relative power of this ability in the class. In fact, I was hoping to make place for more spellcasting stuff, not to boost wild shape.
@Kelezan
Considering we are discussing the DRUID, I'll take this not being as powerful... as a compliment >:3
Honestly, the wild shape needs no fixing. You grab natural spell and then you can mobility/defensive with your wild shape for combat; or just use it for stealth/utility. We really can leave it at Wild Hexes, or maybe fit Natural Spell in for free at the most.
Honestly, just being able to shape into a small bird and fly around while casting/hexing is strong at sixth level. And for a great many after (Read: All of them).
@Browman
The leylines really shouldn't be giving metamagic free. Nothing, really, should ever give metamagic free outside of those very, very, specific options.
#Elder Sage
Not fond of a bab increase. It is a real ugly mechanic, and raises issues about feat prereqs and such. And face it, this guy won't have the Strength to fight decently anyway. I feel Wild Shape here is mainly a way to be unobtrusive - who is going to notice one more squirrel or songbird? It also gives some nice movement options.
I am not as afraid of the free metamagic as raiderrp is. By limiting it to +1 and +2 (and not allow the elder sage to combine this as a bonus to get to +3 and +4 easier, but you can combine two +1s into one +2) I don't see this as too bad. It also forces you to take Metamagic feats at +1 and +2 value, and those are not very good otherwise. But the +2 could wait to a higher level, 13 or thereabouts.
A seeker reduces the level increase from metamagic by 1 at level 15, but this is a lot more useful than simply being able to add a +1 or even +2 metamagic that cannot be stacked.
ELDER SAGE
OK, I think we'll go with this.
1) We'll keep Terrain Patron as is, including the ability to cast summon nature's ally spontaneously.
2) Leyline Casting: We're removing the free metamagic, but reinserting the +2 to caster level at 14th level. We're keeping the 10th level Lingering Spell metamagic feat, and the 16th elvel Elemental Spell metamagic feat effects. I think these give a good option to the ability, and its flavorful.
3) Removed the BAB increase to wild shape.
With these changes, I think we're good.
Had fun working out the arcane channeling on the Arcane Mystic. You'll all see, one day not too soon. I really should learn to go to bed at night and not stay up writing. :o
# ELDER SAGE
Looks good
Yeah, I noticed the duration of the summon monster hex. it is a really good ability. But I have bad recollections of 3E or 3.5 prestige classes with similar abilities, that quickly got really dated - its something that looks good on paper but even 2 levels later is useless. That's why I'd like it to scale, and perhaps even with character levels (as opposed to class levels). The summoner's eidolon does. But really, this is just one optional ability among many, not THE focus of the Mca, so it's not that important.
so confused, i got a lot of back reading to do but i am on it
The combination class playtest is now finishged, wo we likely have as much information about those classes as we'll have until the actual book comes out. Which means we can now use those classes as models for MCAs, like the Quipy Mystic.
Piecing stuff together for SAMAS' MCA. Hope to have it up in the next day or so. Thougha family crisis will likely interfere.
The combination class playtest is now finishged, wo we likely have as much information about those classes as we'll have until the actual book comes out. Which means we can now use those classes as models for MCAs, like the Quipy Mystic.
I wouldn't use the current iteration of Hybrids (the Revised PDF) as a measure for *anything* - all of them will undergo further development from minor tweaks to major changes - the Warpriest and Skald discsdions seemed to identify a lot of room to move in even at the end.
The Slayer and Hunter alone had plenty of tweak to-do list stuff posted in the last days of the playtest.
So what exactly is the current MCA being worked on? things have been kind of quiet here recently.
OK, I have followed the McArchetype threads with Interest since I came across them, but have never felt the need to post anything until now.
I have been looing into making a Dimensional Savant build, but have been continually frustrated by the lateness of the Feat, and was looking for a way to lower it. After exhausting all conventional means, I decided to look at Mcarchetypes to see if there was a suitable Martial/Arcane with a spell-like ability that would meet the the prerequisites of the Feat chain, and there wasn't any. I thought about putting together a McArchetype that combines Fighter and Wizard that could add Wizard school powers so I could make this build, but then I thought, why not make a McArchetype built around this build?
So. here it is:
Name: Dimensional Warrior
Primary: Fighter
Secondary: Wizard(Teleportation)
Fluff: While conventional Fighters study Arms and Armour, and Wizards study the Arcane, the Dimensional Warrior studies both, acquiring the ability to shift across dimensions to attack opponents from behind or retreat to a safe place. Unlike most warriors, Dimensional warriors gain a spatial awareness through their studies which they use to gain a tactical advantage. They study swordplay and tactics, as well as spatial geometry, blending them into a seamless whole.
Skills: The Dimensional warriors class skills are Craft (Int), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (arcana) (Int), Knowledge (engineering) (Int), Knowledge (geography) (Int), Knowledge (planes) (Int), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Survibal (Wis), Spellcraft (Int), and Swim (Str)
Skill ranks per level: 2+Int Modifier
Saves: The Dimensional Warrior gains Fortitude and Will as good saves.
Weapon and Armour Proficiency: A Dimensional Warrior is proficient with all Simple and Martial weapons and with light armour and shields (except Tower shields)
Dimensional Shift (Su): at 1st level, the Dimensional Warriors Spatial studies enable him to Shift across the Battlefield. THis works exactly as the WIzard (Teleportation) ability [i]Shift{/i], except that it makes him eligible for the Dimensional agility Feat chain. he gains a number of uses equal to his INT plus 1/2 his level(Min. 1). This replaces the Fighters Bonus Feat at level 1.
Dimensional Agility: at 2nd level, The Dimensional Warrior gains Dimensional agility as a bonus Feat. This replaces the second level bonus Feat.
Reflexive Shift(Ex): at 2nd level, in any turn in which he uses his Dimensional Shift or Dimension Door Powers, The Dimensional Warrior gets a +1 Bonus to Reflex saves, provided his Int Bonus is at least this amount. Every Four levels after Level 2, the bonus increase by 1 to +5 at level 18, but can never go higher than his Int bonus. This ability replaces Bravery.
Defensive Shift (Ex): at 3rd level, the Dimensional warrior gains the ability to time his shifts to avoid blows and dodge attacks. On any turn in which he uses his Dimensional Shift or Dimension Door ability, he gains a +1 insight bonus to AC, providing this does not exceed his Int bonus. Every four levels thereafter, this bomus increases by +1 to +4 at level 15. At Level 19, The bonus increases to his Int Bonus. This ability replaces Armor Training and Armor Mastery.
Dimensional Assault: at 4th level, the Dimensional warrior gains Dimensional assault as a bonus Feat. This replaces the bonus Feat at this level.
Dimensional Strike: At 5th level, the Dimensional Warrior ia able to use his Dimensional abilities to place himself in a position to strike with speed and precision, gaining a +1 insight bonus to attack and damage rolls whenever he uses Dimensional Shift or Dimension Door, providing his Int bonus is at least that high. Every four levels thereafter, this bonus increase by 1 to +4 at level 17. This ability replaces weapon Training.
Tactician: At 5th level, the Dimensional Warrior gains the Tactician ability as a Cavalier. This ability replaces Medium Armor proficiency.
Dimensional Dervish: at 6th level, the Dimensional warrior gains Dimensional Dervish as a bonus Feat. This replaces the bonus Feat at that level.
Dimensional Savant: at 8th level, the Dimensional warrior gets Dimensional Savant as a bonus Feat, waiving any requirements needed. This replaces the bonus Feat at that level.
Shift with me: At 9th level, the Dimensional warrior gains the ability to take others with him when he shifts. He must touch the person who is going to shift, and they must be willing. Each additional person that shifts takes up an additional use of the Dimensional Shifts uses per day.
Bonus Feats: Whenever the Dimensional Warrior takes a bonus Feat, he may choose Dimensional Maneuvers or a teamwork feat instead of the Normal combat feat.
Dimension Door (sp): at 13th level the Dimensional Warrior gains the use Dimension Door as a spell like ability. Each time it takes one his Dimensional Shift uses per day.
Dimensional Mastery: at 20th level the dimensional warrior is able to use Dimensional shift with such speed and precision that he can catch them unaware, all opponents are considered flat-footed in any round that he uses Dimension Shift or Dimension Door. In addition, he can Shift his strikes through defenses in such a way that they ignore any damage resistance altogether.
# Dimensional warrior
Notes: any thoughts or feedback would be welcome. My current concerns are:
(1) Saves too good? Both Will and Fort are good saves, while Reflex gains a bonus whenever they shift. is this OP? I don't think it is, since Paladin gets better, but would welcome feedback.
{2} No special attacks until 20th level. While writing out this archetype, I realised that theoretically he could have abilities that enable him to simulate reach, strike through barriers or defenses, shift his weapon "into" an enemy, or simply use his shift ability as a type of weapon (disrupting the dimensions or something). He also has no ability to shift an opponent onto disadvantageous ground. While these are all cool abilities, is it too ambitious to try to include them and if not what would they replace.
(3) Limited Spatial awareness abilities. While the Dimensional Shift ability could be considerd the product of spatial awareness, so too could Evasion, Improved Evasion, Improved ancanny dodge (or a flavorful equivalent), blindfighting, etc. There is no recognition of this at the moment, but it would beg the question of what to take out.
# Dimensional Warrior
I think the biggest issue is that it looks like almost everything she gets keys off of the Dimensional Shift ability. You'll likely need to use one every other round to keep pace with a normal fighter, and once you are out of them for the day, you don't have many abilities to fall back upon. Maybe an at-will ability to teleport much smaller distances (5' at 5th level, 10' at 10th level, etc) as a move action would be in line.
The greatest strength is the ability to reliably get off full attacks, TWF seems like a natural build for it.
2.5 good saves seems a little much. Paladins have always been well ahead of the curve in this department. If anything, I would ditch the Will, but beef up the reflex bonus a little.
You might add some kind of ability in a mid 7-13th level, allowing you to burn 2-3 Dimensional Shift uses to use it as an immediate action for some defensive utility.
Limiting all of these abilities to the character's int modifier, while thematically sound, seems a little clunky and is probably unnecessary.
Hope that helps.
So what exactly is the current MCA being worked on? things have been kind of quiet here recently.
Elder Sage is done. So the next up from the wiki, interestingly, is the Eldritch Vanguard (Sam/Wiz), which is a teleportation based MCA, which just hadn't been posted on the wiki yet. I know we just did it a bit ago, but I noticed something that needs to get fixed, as the MCA no longer has the Mount ability, but still has Mounted Archer as an ability.
I was going to post my initial build for SAMAS's Clr/Sum MCA in the queue. But, as you can see, Gavmania has jumped the gun and posted his entire MCA concept, instead of asking to be placed in the queue. :D
As I still want to look over my initial concepts for SAMAS's MCA, I think we'll just work on Gavmania's Ftr/Wiz, since it's been posted. Then we'll get to SAMAS's and then to Kelavan's "Swashbuckler" MCA after that.
Here's the current Queue as it sits.
Avatar – Clr/Sum (SAMAS)
Fencer/Elagant Swordsman – Cav/Gun (Kelazan)
“Melee Summoner” – Sum/Ftr (OSW)
In that case I will post my thoughts on the dimensional warrior in the morning.
OK, I have followed the McArchetype threads with Interest since I came across them, but have never felt the need to post anything until now.
welcom Gavmanis to the MCA thread! Glad to see your enthusiam. However, I need to point out that we use a queue sytem here, as many concepts have be suggested on the previous thread and here. This way, everyone gets there turn in an orderly fashion, but waiting can be long at times. It keeps it neat and tidy, and people get their turn on a first come first serve basis, though, I also spread them out so the same person isn't getting to work on a concept twice in a row, to allow everyone the opportunity to work on one of theirs from time to time. And thank you for posting your stuff in the proper MCA format.
As I am currently trying to work on the next MCA in the queue (see above post), we'll let this one slide as you've posted everything already.
And, as to us not having a "teleportation" MCA, we actually do, it just wasn't posted on the wiki yet, 'cause I hadn't got around to it. we did a few months back, and its a Sam/Wiz MCA. I just posted the Eldritch Vanguard on the wiki, so go ahead and take a look. Lots of similarities to yours.
I'll take a look at yours tomorrow and post my comments then. It's been a long...long day.
OK, here's Alfray and Iorthol's Eldritch Vanguard for one final look over. I think it's fine as is. Ignore my Mounted Archer comment above. I just noticed we swapped Combat REflexes in for it. Just forgot to change it on the table.
Also, what about saves? Do we only want good Fort? or should we have a Good Ref or Good Will also?
In certain schools of training, the art of the samurai is augmented with training in the arcane arts. Through this specialized training, the samurai’s sharp mind for magic grants him the ability to teleport and magically increase the speed of his movements.
Primary Class: Samurai.
Secondary Class: Wizard.
Alignment: Any.
Hit Dice: d10.
Bonus Skills and Ranks: The eldritch vanguard may select three wizard skills to add to his class skills in addition to the normal samurai class skills. The eldritch vanguard gains a number of ranks at each level equal to 4 + Int modifier.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: The eldritch vanguard is proficient with all simple and martial weapons, plus the katana, naginata , and wakizashi. He is also proficient with light and medium armor, and with shields (except tower shields).
Arcane Bond (Ex or Sp): At 1st level, an eldritch vanguard forms a powerful bond with a weapon or a creature. This bond can take one of two forms: a mount (see the Mount entry in the samurai class description) or a bonded weapon. A mount is exactly like the samurai’s ability of the same name, while a bonded weapon is an item an eldritch vanguard can use to cast additional spells or to serve as a magical item. Once an eldritch vanguard makes this choice, it is permanent and cannot be changed.
Eldritch vanguards who select a bonded weapon begin play with one at no cost, and must be a weapon with which he is proficient. This weapon is always masterwork quality, but is not made of any special material.
Starting at 5th level, a bonded weapon can be used once per day to cast expeditious retreat. As the eldritch vanguard gains experience, he gains access to additional spells he can cast with his bonded weapon. At 8th level, he can cast blur. At 11th level, he can cast blink. At 11th level, he can cast displacement. Only one of these spells can be cast in his once per day bonded weapon spell slot. These spells are treated like any other spell cast by a wizard equal to his eldritch vanguard level, including casting time, duration, and other effects dependent on the caster’s level. These spells cannot be modified by metamagic feats or other abilities.
An eldritch vanguard can add additional magic abilities to his bonded weapon as if he had the Master Craftsman feat and if he meets the level prerequisites of the feat. For example, an eldritch vanguard with a bonded katana must be at least 5th level to add magic abilities to the katana (see Craft Magic Arms and Armor feat). The magic properties of a bonded weapon, including any magic abilities added to the weapon, only function for the eldritch vanguard who owns it. If a bonded weapon's owner dies, or the item is replaced, the weapon reverts to being an ordinary masterwork item of the appropriate type.
If a bonded weapon is damaged, it is restored to full hit points the next time the eldritch vanguard rests to regain his daily uses of his battlefield shift ability. If a bonded weapon is lost or destroyed, it can be replaced after 1 week in a special ritual that costs 200 gp per eldritch vanguard level plus the cost of the masterwork item. This ritual takes 8 hours to complete. Items replaced in this way do not possess any of the additional enchantments of the previous bonded weapon. An eldritch vanguard can designate an existing magic item as his bonded weapon. This functions in the same way as replacing a lost or destroyed item except that the new magic item retains its abilities while gaining the benefits and drawbacks of becoming a bonded item.
This ability otherwise functions as and replaces mount.
Battleground Shift (Su): Starting at 1st level, the eldritch vanguard gains the ability to teleport to a nearby space as a swift action as if using dimension door. This movement does not provoke an attack of opportunity. The eldritch vanguard must be able to see the space that he is moving into. He cannot take other creatures with him when he uses this ability (except for familiars). An eldritch vanguard can move 5 feet for every two eldritch vanguard levels he possesses (minimum 5 feet). An eldritch vanguard can use this ability once per day at 1st level, plus one additional time per day for every two eldritch vanguard levels beyond 1st. This ability only functions when he is wearing light armor, medium armor, or no armor, and carrying a light load. He cannot take other creatures with him when he uses this ability.
Due to the mental training required to harness the arcane energies magic used to power this ability, an eldritch vanguard must get 8 hours of sleep and spend 1 hour in meditation to regain his daily usage of this ability. This ability replaces resolve.
Dimensional Style (Ex): Starting at 1st level, an eldritch vanguard is trained in the arcane art of dimensional combat. An eldritch vanguard can select any of the following feats as those gained from normal advancement: Dimensional Agility, Dimensional Assault, Dimensional Dervish, Dimensional Maneuvers, Dimensional Savant, Disruptive, Spellbreaker, Teleport Tactician. The eldritch vanguard must meet the feats requirements as normal. The eldritch vanguard uses his level and his battleground shift class feature for the purpose of any class, class feature, or level requirements to qualifying for these feats.
Order: This is exactly like the samurai ability of the same name, except that the eldritch vanguard may also choose the new Order of the Lighting Warrior.
Combat Reflexes: At 4th level, an eldritch vanguard gains Combat Reflexes as a bonus feat. This ability replaces mounted archer.
Field Banner (Ex): At 5th level, an eldritch vanguard’s banner becomes a rally point to his allies and companions. As long as the eldritch vanguard’s banner is planted securely in the ground and clearly visible, all allies within 60 feet receive a +2 morale bonus on all initiative checks. At 10th level, and every five levels thereafter, these bonuses increase by +1. The banner must be at least Small or larger, planted securely in the ground, and the eldritch vanguard be within 60 feet of it to function. The samurai does not need to carry the banner. This ability replaces banner.
Bonus Feats: This is exactly like the samurai ability of the same name, except that the eldritch vanguard may also select any feat listed in his Dimensional Style ability as a bonus feat. He must meet the requirements of his chosen feat as normal.
Greater Battleground Shift (Su): At 9th level, an eldritch vanguard can spend one use of his dimensional shift ability to teleport up to 30 feet per eldritch vanguard level per day as a standard action. This teleportation must be used in 5-foot increments and such movement does not provoke an attack of opportunity. The eldritch vanguard can bring other willing creatures (including his mount) with him, but he must expend an equal amount of distance for each additional creature brought with him. This ability replaces greater resolve.
Dimensional Guard (Su): At 11th level, an eldritch vanguard can spend one use of his battleground shift to activate an aura of that blocks any extradimensional travel within a 30 feet radius. This functions as the target being affected by the dimensional anchor spell. This effect lasts for a number of rounds equal to the eldritch vanguard’s level. This ability replaces honorable stand.
Greater Field Banner (Ex): At 14th level, the area immediately around an eldritch vanguard’s banner becomes charged with dimensional energy. Once per day, an eldritch vanguard can switch places with an ally within 60 feet of his banner. He chooses a single ally within range. This allows the eldritch vanguard to teleport to his ally's space while his ally teleports to the eldritch vanguard’s former space. This functions as the king’s castle spell. An eldritch vanguard can use this ability twice per day at 17th level, and three times per day at 20th level. This ability replaces greater banner.
True Battleground Shift (Su): At 17th level, an eldritch vanguard can spend uses of his battleground shift to avoid death. If he has at least two uses of his battleground shift remaining, he can spend all of the daily uses of his battleground shift that he has available to him to avoid death and teleport to a safe location (such as a sanctuary, town, or behind allied lines) within 30 miles. Regardless of the source of the attack that would have killed him, he is left alive, at –1 hit points (or lower if he was already below –1), unconscious, and stable. This ability has no effect on abilities that kill without dealing damage. This ability replaces true resolve.
Dimensional Warrior (Su): At 20th level, an eldritch vanguard, can once per day, as a full-round action, use the full attack action two times in succession against the target of his challenge. He must take the first full attack as normal. Once these attacks are resolved, he can then take another full attack action. He must resolve these actions separately. He cannot combine the attacks provided by both actions as he wishes. Instead, he must take them separately and in order as normal for a full attack. These full attacks may be combined with the Dimensional Dervish feat as normal. If the target of his challenge is killed before both full attacks are resolved, the eldritch vanguard may challenge another target as a free action. This ability replaces last stand.
Table: Eldritch Vanguard
Base
Class Attack Fort Ref Will
Level Bonus Save Save Save Special
1st +1 +2 +0 +0 Arcane bond, battleground shift, challenge 1/day, dimensional style, order
2nd +2 +3 +0 +0 Order ability
3rd +3 +3 +1 +1 Weapons expertise
4th +4 +4 +1 +1 Challenge 2/day, combat reflexes
5th +5 +4 +1 +1 Field banner
6th +6/+1 +5 +2 +2 Bonus feat
7th +7/+2 +5 +2 +2 Challenge 3/day
8th +8/+3 +6 +2 +2 Order ability
9th +9/+4 +6 +3 +3 Greater battleground shift
10th +10/+5 +7 +3 +3 Challenge 4/day
11th +11/+6/+1 +7 +3 +3 Dimensional guard
12th +12/+7/+2 +8 +4 +4 Bonus feat, demanding challenge
13th +13/+8/+3 +8 +4 +4 Challenge 5/day
14th +14/+9/+4 +9 +4 +4 Greater field banner
15th +15/+10/+5 +9 +5 +5 Order ability
16th +16/+11/+6/+1 +10 +5 +5 Challenge 6/day
17th +17/+12/+7/+2 +10 +5 +5 True battleground shift
18th +18/+13/+8/+3 +11 +6 +6 Bonus feat
19th +19/+14/+9/+4 +11 +6 +6 Challenge 7/day
20th +20/+15/+10/+5 +12 +6 +6 Dimensional warrior
This order complements the eldritch vanguard multiclass archetype.
Edicts: The samurai must protect the life and lands of his lord with his life. He must be swift, efficient, timely, direct, and wholly honest. He must be forward and upfront, direct, without deception and misdirection.
Challenge: Whenever an order of lightning warrior samurai charges or otherwise moves in a straight line to the target of his challenge, he gains a +1 circumstance bonus to hit and AC, as long as he moved at least 10 feet. This bonus to hit and AC increases by +1 for every four levels the samurai possesses. Any teleportation-based spells, spell-like abilities, or supernatural abilities also qualify for this bonus, as long as the samurai has moved at least 10 feet.
Skills: An order of lightning warrior samurai adds Acrobatics and Knowledge (arcana) to his list of class skills. In addition whenever an order of lightning warrior samurai makes an Acrobatics check to avoid an attack of opportunity, he receives a bonus equal to 1/2 his samurai level (minimum +1).
Order Abilities: A samurai that belongs to the order of the lightning warrior gains the following abilities as he increases in level.
Lightning Strike (Ex): At 2nd level, the samurai can spend a standard action to draw his weapon, move up to 10 feet, and make a single attack against an enemy that is flat-footed. If the attack is successful, the samurai deals 1d6 points of precision damage. This extra damage increases to 2d6 at 9th level, and 3d6 at 16th level. Once a creature has been the target of a lightning strike attack, it cannot be targeted again for a 24-hour period.
Battle Speed (Sp): At 8th level, an order of lightning warrior samurai can increase his speed during combat. As a free action, the samurai can act as though affected by a haste spell for up to 10 rounds each day. The haste effect’s duration need not be consecutive rounds.
[i]Temporal Movements (Sp)[i]: At 15th level, an order of lightning warrior samurai can cast freedom of movement on himself for a number of rounds equal to his samurai level, once per day.
# ELDRITCH VANGUARD
Exiting but very drastic class; I can see many GMs not allowing this. But I think it can work as a MCA pretty much as-is. Some points tough.
@Field Banner: I see that this ability is motivated by the greater field banner ability. I want it specified how long it takes to plant and retrieve the banner. Say a full-round action to plant it and a standard action to pull it out. But on the whole, I prefer the carried version of banner, especially for samurai. Check this out!
@Order of the Lighting Warrior
Skills section is very high utility, but not beyond the pale if it was balanced by making other aspects of the order weak. However, the rest of the order is not weak.
Lightning speed: This seems overly strong, and doesn't seem to be balanced by otherwise lackluster abilities.
Actually quite fun to compare the eldrich vanguard and dimensional warrior; they show their heritage as samurai and fighter respectively. Kudos to both designers for that.
# Dimensional warrior
[...]While writing out this archetype, I realised that theoretically he could have abilities that enable him to simulate reach, strike through barriers or defenses, shift his weapon "into" an enemy, or simply use his shift ability as a type of weapon (disrupting the dimensions or something). He also has no ability to shift an opponent onto disadvantageous ground. While these are all cool abilities, is it too ambitious to try to include them and if not what would they replace.(3) Limited Spatial awareness abilities. While the Dimensional Shift ability could be considerd the product of spatial awareness, so too could Evasion, Improved Evasion, Improved ancanny dodge (or a flavorful equivalent), blindfighting, etc. There is no recognition of this at the moment, but it would beg the question of what to take out.
These would seem to be more fitting for a rogue-MCA teleporter, a bit like Shadowcat of the old X-men. In fact, I think we could probably build teleporter MCAs for almost all classes. It does feel a bit outside the scope of the MCA project, but I am certain a few could fit here. However, we are now definitely working on multiple variants of the same class combination.
#Eldritch Vanguard/Dimensional Warrior
Echoing Cronax on Reflexes - quick, adept and alacritous moves on the battlefield imply Reflexes to me thematically - for example - being able to flavor a successful Reflex save as "phasing" out of the way/in time...
I don't see a Will save being thematic, but that's just me. Happy to be shown otherwise, but I still might disagree. :)
Just not sure if one or two saves is appropriate, though a swap could always be made...
@Gavmania - as Elghinn said - welcome to the thread! Nice to see a well formatted MCA straight up too!
I'm pressed for time, so I just wanted to say I could see Reflexive Shift (and I guess, Defensive shift) being tied to Wisdom just as easily as to Intelligence - being able to intuitively tap into the "flow/phase" or perceive it (Wisdom), just as much as possessing the trick or knowledge (Intelligence).
One thing just occurred to me - while perhaps beyond the purview of either of these "blink-warriors" it might be interesting to create some kind of post-arrival nerf to their Reflex saves to create the sense that, sure they can blink around, but it is still (at early levels anyway) somewhat disorienting. In the same vein as a Charge bestows a penalty to AC until the charging creature's next turn.
@Cronax - didn't know you were watching these threads! Nice to see you and Welcome! ;) (Please don't kill my character yet...)