Arcane Adept
Anything else with the Arcane Adept? How do we feel about the name? This is a Bbn/Wiz MCA.
I actually like the name personally. Although it does feel like a tactics inspired class, so maybe something with tactical in it?
# Arcane Adept "Adept" to me rings of "physical adept" (Shadowrun) or monk. A studious character that is very all-round, a sound mind in a sound body. Seems like a perfect fit to me.
#Wildheart
Quite a big change to break out the rage and monk abilities and make them incompatible except through focus mind. Low level wildhearts should consider very carefully if rage is worth the cost. Maybe the Will save DC of Focus Mind should be static, say DC 20, to make focus mind more desirable at higher levels. Also, the class is now quite Wis-dependent; both AC bonus and Will save for focus mind depend on Wis. This means Cha is the only thing resembling a dump stat this MCA has.
Maybe replace monk defense with Mage Armor (the spell) + the duelist's Canny Defense ability:
Canny Defense (Ex)
When wearing light or no armor and not using a shield, a duelist adds 1 point of Intelligence bonus (if any) per duelist class level as a dodge bonus to her Armor Class while wielding a melee weapon. If a duelist is caught flat-footed or otherwise denied her Dexterity bonus, she also loses this bonus.
Perhaps make the Focus Mind save a Fort save too.
I might throw an exploit at you once in a while. Problem with doing this sort of class is that it has moving parts.
I was thinking the combat maneuver one wouldn't work because it should really be a drag maneuver and you sort of have to blow the cmd out of the water to make a good drag.
What do you think of a sort of baleful dimension door effect instead? I think area control would be cool if I could just figure out how to do it.
@Starfox
I'll take a look at your suggestions.
Perhaps the AC bonus could be a natural armor bonus instead? Then base it off of Con? Sort of a bulked up, blood surge to the body that hardens the skin and muscles? Could base it off of Canny defense to prevent a huge natural AC increase, such at 1 poiint of Con at 1st, and one every 4 levels thereafter or something? I'd prefer not to go to a mage armor type thing as this is NOt in any way arcane. It's a Bbn/Mnk.
Focus mind could be made a Fort save...I'll have to look it over. Though, you are forcing your mind to overpower your body. Thus mind over matter, which would sem to be a Will save.
@Trogdar
Write it out and I'll take a look. Concepts are fine, but I prefer to work from a written out version of an ability. So, write it out as best you can, even itf it's just explaining what exactly you are looking to do with it. Then we cna hammer our specifics and mechanics.
@Starfox
I'd prefer not to go to a mage armor type thing as this is NOt in any way arcane. It's a Bbn/Mnk.Focus mind could be made a Fort save...I'll have to look it over. Though, you are forcing your mind to overpower your body. Thus mind over matter, which would sem to be a Will save.
Please ignore what I said.
I think I got completely confused here, my mind still on the Arcane Adept (we have two monk-like MCAs here). Of course the Wildheart should not be Int-based, my bad. Wisdom fits much better, both for Ac and saves.
...OK then. :D
If you guys don't already have a Bbn/Rge archetype, I would like to submit my own!
Blooded Rogue
(Or Cold-blooded Rogue/Blooded Knave/Cold-blooded Knave, whatever's clever!)
Primary Class: Rogue
Secondary Class: Barbarian
Hit Die: d10.
Bonus Skills and Ranks: The blooded rogue may select three barbarian skills to add to his class skills in addition to the normal rogue class skills. The blooded rogue gains a number of ranks at each level equal to 6 + Int modifier.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: The blooded rogue is proficient with all simple and martial weapons. They are proficient with light armor, but not with shields.
Cold-blooded Rage (Ex): When a blooded rogue rages, instead of making a normal rage she receives a +2 morale bonus to her Strength and Dexterity. This bonus increases to +4 when she gains greater rage. When using a Cold-blooded rage, a blooded rogue gains no bonus on Will saves, takes no penalties to AC, and can still use Dexterity-based skills. A blooded rogue does not suffer fatigue at the end of his rage, but may not end their rage voluntarily. Once a blooded rogue begins their rage it lasts until all rounds have been expended, or they fall unconscious via some other means. This ability otherwise follows the normal rules for rage. This ability replaces trapfinding.
Sneak Attack: This behaves as the rogue ability of the same name, with the exception that the extra damage increases by 1d6 every three levels after 1st.
Evasion (Ex): At 2nd level and higher, a blooded rogue can avoid even magical and unusual attacks with great agility. This behaves as the rogue ability of the same name.
Heartless Tricks: As the blooded rogue hones her killer instinct, she begins to pick up tricks to confound her foes and further increase her killing efficiency. Starting at 2nd level, a blooded rogue may take either a rogue talent or a rage power. She gains an additional rogue talent or rage power for every 2 levels of blooded rogue attained after 2nd level. A blooded rogue cannot select an individual rogue talent or rage power more than once.
Advanced Talents: Starting at 12th level a blooded rogue can begin choosing advanced talents in place of a rogue talent any time they are able to choose a heartless trick.
Uncanny Dodge (Ex): Starting at 3rd level, a blooded rogue can react to danger before her senses would normally allow her to do so. This behaves as the rogue ability of the same name. This ability replaces trap sense.
Hard to kill: At 5th level a blooded rogue gains Diehard as a bonus feat, even if he does not meet the prerequisites.
Improved Uncanny Dodge (Ex): A blooded rogue of 6th level or higher can no longer be flanked. This behaves as the rogue ability of the same name.
Finality (Ex): At 15th level a blooded rogue has honed her instincts to a razor's edge. From this point forward, whenever the blooded rogue makes a sneak attack while raging, she may extend her rage one more turn if the sneak attack is successful.
Master Strike (Ex): Upon reaching 20th level, a blooded rogue becomes incredibly deadly when dealing sneak attack damage. This behaves as the rogue ability of the same name.
Here's the advancement table for the special abilities. Obviously they would keep the BAB and Saves of the Rogue class:
1 Cold-blooded Rage, sneak attack +1d6
2 Evasion, Heartless trick
3 Uncanny Dodge
4 Heartless trick, sneak attack +2d6
5 Hard to kill
6 Heartless trick, improved uncanny dodge
7 sneak attack +3d6
8 Heartless trick
9 Damage reduction 1/-
10 Heartless trick, sneak attack +4d6
11 Greater Rage
12 Advanced talents, heartless trick
13 Damage reduction 2/-,sneak attack +5d6
14 Heartless trick
15 Finality
16 Heartless trick, sneak attack +6d6
17 Damage reduction 3/-
18 Heartless trick
19 sneak attack +7d6
20 Heartless trick, master strike
Even if you don't want to use it, I would love to hear any critiques!
Cant you already use dex based skills in a rage?
Actually no. I think it's silly that you can't honestly. However, according to the Pathfinder rules.
Rage:
"While in rage, a barbarian cannot use any Charisma-, Dexterity-, or Intelligence-based skills (except Acrobatics, Fly, Intimidate, and Ride) or any ability that requires patience or concentration."
Like I said, pretty silly.
*Sigh* im glad i always ignored that .
Well, I'm not hearing anything further on the Arcane Adept or the Wildheart, so I'm inclined to move on. Trogdar, if you have other exploits, just post them and I can add them to the list.
So that puts Tyrannical's Philosopher (we'll need to swap the primary and secondary classes), and since you're new to the thread Nihilakh, we'll take a look at yours. Is it a Bbn/Rog or a Rog/Bbn? You've called it both, so need to know which is the base class you swapped abilities out from to check balance, etc.
Well, I'm not hearing anything further on the Arcane Adept or the Wildheart, so I'm inclined to move on. Trogdar, if you have other exploits, just post them and I can add them to the list.
So that puts Tyrannical's Philosopher (we'll need to swap the primary and secondary classes), and since you're new to the thread Nihilakh, we'll take a look at yours. Is it a Bbn/Rog or a Rog/Bbn? You've called it both, so need to know which is the base class you swapped abilities out from to check balance, etc.
Ack! Sorry Elghinn. It's supposed to be Rog/Bbn.
Just so you know though I didn't swap exact copies of the abilities over. I took some liberties with them. For instance, I reduced the benefits from the Rage skill, and reduced the total amount of sneak attack damage the rogue gets as well as reducing skill points. I upped the hit die to sit in between the Rogue and Barbarian. Word of warning, it's not play tested. I did attempt to make it what I thought was balanced. There is always the possibility of outliers when things haven't been tested obviously.
One of the things we do here, if you've followed the thread, is work to make things balanced. So when we're done, you should have something balanced and playable.
One of the things we do here, if you've followed the thread, is work to make things balanced. So when we're done, you should have something balanced and playable.
I have noticed that. Thank you Elghinn!
The whole reason I posted it was to, not only get feedback, but to try and contribute something. I have in fact gone through all of the MCA threads at this point. I have also gone through several classes on the wiki. I am very impressed. Hopefully balancing this one in particular isn't a heap ton of work. I did try to do my due diligence by making it balanced myself.
Looking it over, there shouldn't be much at all to balance it. In fact, from what I've calculated, all we need to do is swap out 3 rogue talents, and add in one additional ability, and we're done. I'll post my findings and ideas tomorrow. Good job as a first kick at the MCA cat goes.
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@Nihilakh - welcome to the thread/s. Kudos to you if you have indeed all five of our previous threads, including this one. You'll have noted I'm an ornery wolf who is fairly toothless on crunch (but finds a tasty error-morsel to chew on from time to time) and that I'm big on theme and flavor. And I'm incredibly biased with regard to what I do and don't like, am hung up on process and strive to be fair.
I haven't commented on the past few MCAs as I just started my last six months of my degree in the past few weeks, and I haven't been terribly enthused by the concepts - although I did create the Focused Combatant (submitted by me as the Focused Mind, remember El?) Barbarian archetype for Kobold Press' Legends of Midgard...
# Blooded Rogue
I like the cold-blooded rage as a concept but currently as written I find it problematic thematically and mechanically:
Cold-blooded Rage (Ex): When a blooded rogue rages, instead of making a normal rage she receives a +2 morale bonus to her Strength and Dexterity. This bonus increases to +4 when she gains greater rage. When using a Cold-blooded rage, a blooded rogue gains no bonus on Will saves, takes no penalties to AC, and can still use Dexterity-based skills. A blooded rogue does not suffer fatigue at the end of his rage, but may not end their rage voluntarily. Once a blooded rogue begins their rage it lasts until all rounds have been expended, or they fall unconscious via some other means. This ability otherwise follows the normal rules for rage. This ability replaces trapfinding.
So a +2 bonus to Str and Dex, no penalty to AC, still able to use Dex skills (I'm on board with this thematically) and no fatigue. All for trapfinding. And it improves to +4 later on... I don't think this is equal to trapfinding - it's a huge buff. That's the mechanics side.
Thematically, I don't get why it's uncontrolled/can't be ended voluntarily.. That seems counter to a controlled, cold-blooded rage. If it's a balancer then I don't get how. ;)
@Blooded Rogue
We'll need a different name I think. Invokes Sorcerer instead of Barbarian.
For Coldblooded Rage, there are two options here.
1) Make this work like the Rage spell. For the rogue, I see this more of a stone-cold rage, controllable, but much the same effect. We could either go 2 round or 1 round of rage per level. The spell has no fatigue and is 1 round per level.
2) Make this just like normal rage, but with only the +2 stat boost, increases to +4 at a later level.
So that puts Tyrannical's Philosopher (we'll need to swap the primary and secondary classes)
Alrighty, probably best so we're not seeing another Wizard/Oracle so soon, especially when the names are similar~
So Oracle/Wizard it is!
I was also thinking if the class felt a little bare bones to add a unique free Revelation-like ability to each individual study to help provide a little bonus for what you pick.
I'm also working on other MCA ideas in my spare time, so should you want anything else soon give me a poke and I'll throw a quick concept your way to fill some of those classes without many MCAs yet.
@Philospher
In an attempt to make the name less like the other Wiz/Ora MCA, here's some possible ideas for alternate names.
Divine Theologist
Divine Academic
Word Mashes
Oracle/Divine Power = Seer, Prophet, Prognosticator, Visionary, Revelator, Medium
Wizard/Knowledge = Academic, Theorist, Theologian, Logician, Arcanist
Currently reworking your stuff Tyrannical so that it functions from an Oracle/Wizard MCA point of view, vs. the Wiz/Ora. Very little will change, though some of the approaches to obtaining certain abilities with be altered a bit due to the dfferent Primary/Secondary class combo.
Currently reworking your stuff Tyrannical so that it functions from an Oracle/Wizard MCA point of view, vs. the Wiz/Ora. Very little will change, though some of the approaches to obtaining certain abilities with be altered a bit due to the different Primary/Secondary class combo.
That's fine with me, the main goal I had for this MCA was to make wizard and Oracle function together nicely. And since Revelations are the more desirable abilities, it works out better with an Oracle focus
I had hoped to keep 'Philosopher' as the title of this MCA, as thematically the class is based around combining knowledge and mystery. It also isn't a divine-oriented class, it's based around arcane knowledge more than anything. Though if it's necessary, these could work;
Philosophical Savant
Theological Erudite
Academic Visionary
Scholastic Theologian
Sophic Scholar
Grand Logician
Call it the dualist. The philosophy that believes in the dual nature of mind and body is often associated with a creator entity. Or at the very least, some kind of sufficient reason for existence as opposed to accepting that reality is contingent.
Call it the dualist. The philosophy that believes in the dual nature of mind and body is often associated with a creator entity. Or at the very least, some kind of sufficient reason for existence as opposed to accepting that reality is contingent.
That's nice but it doesn't capture the focus I'm trying to portray in this class. besides, sounds too much like 'Duelist', bound to be some confusion there~
I like Philosophical Savant. The Savant really says Oracle to me more than the others, except Visionary, which I feel is overused.
Arcane Savant sounds pretty cool, but you really want the philosophy in there and we have a bajillion "Arcane x" MCAs.
That's fine with me, the main goal I had for this MCA was to make wizard and Oracle function together nicely. And since Revelations are the more desirable abilities, it works out better with an Oracle focus
I had hoped to keep 'Philosopher' as the title of this MCA, as thematically the class is based around combining knowledge and mystery. It also isn't a divine-oriented class, it's based around arcane knowledge more than anything. Though if it's necessary, these could work;
Philosophical Savant
Theological Erudite
Academic Visionary
Scholastic Theologian
Sophic Scholar
Grand Logician
I like Scholastic Theologian, though Philosophical Savant does capture things well.
Now, are you still wanting this to have Wizard spellcasting? Spell book and prepared spells? Or are you wanting to keep the spontaneous casting of the oracle?
Also, I assume that the access to certain subschools grants no powers, only choice of spells. Perhaps we can allow the MCA to swap out certain number of revelations from her mystery to gain her school powers instead? Something like this:
1/3/7/11/15/19/20
Swap Out
Revelations at 1/11/and final revelation to gain 1st school power
Revelations at 3/15 for 2nd school power
Revelations at 7/19 for 3rd school power
Not sure if that's balanced though, as wizards only get 3 powers vs an oracle's 6 revelations + final revelation. Anyone else? Thoughts? An arcane school's 1st ability tends to scale to 20th level. So is it worth 2 revealtions + final revelation, and are the other powers equal to 2 revelations each?
I also think we may need to go diminished spellcasting to incorporate everything.
I feel like a dual primary caster MCA would seem weird if it casted a lowered number of spells.
I feel like a dual primary caster MCA would seem weird if it casted a lowered number of spells.
I sort of agree. Then we may need to find somethings to ditch, or incorprate as alternative options of certain class features. What I'm really looking at it is the Knowledge Feats. I'm thinking we may not even want to keep them if it means diminished spellcasting. They can be selected as normal feats anyways.
Now, are you still wanting this to have Wizard spellcasting? Spell book and prepared spells? Or are you wanting to keep the spontaneous casting of the oracle?Also, I assume that the access to certain subschools grants no powers, only choice of spells. Perhaps we can allow the MCA to swap out certain number of revelations from her mystery to gain her school powers instead? Something like this:
1/3/7/11/15/19/20
Swap Out
Revelations at 1/11/and final revelation to gain 1st school power
Revelations at 3/15 for 2nd school power
Revelations at 7/19 for 3rd school powerNot sure if that's balanced though, as wizards only get 3 powers vs an oracle's 6 revelations + final revelation. Anyone else? Thoughts? An arcane school's 1st ability tends to scale to 20th level. So is it worth 2 revelations + final revelation, and are the other powers equal to 2 revelations each?
I also think we may need to go diminished spellcasting to incorporate everything.
I think 'Philosophical Savant' will fit nicely then, since it's mostly in favor.
as for the idea about giving a choice on picking up a new revelation or an arcane school power, I think's nice idea, but arcane school powers have strange unlock levels, following no set order. This is why I suggested the ability to pick up a Revelation or Arcane Discovery, while arcane school powers would be unlocked automatically when you reach their prerequisite level.
As for the casting, I'd like to employ the use of both the Wizard's spell list and the Oracle's spell list, and whether it uses Spell Book feature or spontaneous casting is something we may need to work on. So, a character's Arcane School governs the use of spells in both lists, and perhaps cast as Arcane OR Divine as if under the 'Theurgy' Feat, gained at level 1.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/theurgy
I can see this being difficult for elemental schools, though I'm sure it's easy to overcome by following descriptors such as Fire, Cold and so on. Metal, Void and Wood may be tough to cover in the Oracle spells, so I guess it falls to DM discretion in this case.
as for saves and BAB; The standard oracle progression suits us fine here in my opinion. As for the amount of spells? I see no harm in using the Wizard's spells known/spells per day progression.
@Nihilakh - welcome to the thread/s. Kudos to you if you have indeed all five of our previous threads, including this one. You'll have noted I'm an ornery wolf who is fairly toothless on crunch (but finds a tasty error-morsel to chew on from time to time) and that I'm big on theme and flavor. And I'm incredibly biased with regard to what I do and don't like, am hung up on process and strive to be fair.
I haven't commented on the past few MCAs as I just started my last six months of my degree in the past few weeks, and I haven't been terribly enthused by the concepts - although I did create the Focused Combatant (submitted by me as the Focused Mind, remember El?) Barbarian archetype for Kobold Press' Legends of Midgard...
# Blooded Rogue
I like the cold-blooded rage as a concept but currently as written I find it problematic thematically and mechanically:
Cold-blooded Rage (Ex): When a blooded rogue rages, instead of making a normal rage she receives a +2 morale bonus to her Strength and Dexterity. This bonus increases to +4 when she gains greater rage. When using a Cold-blooded rage, a blooded rogue gains no bonus on Will saves, takes no penalties to AC, and can still use Dexterity-based skills. A blooded rogue does not suffer fatigue at the end of his rage, but may not end their rage voluntarily. Once a blooded rogue begins their rage it lasts until all rounds have been expended, or they fall unconscious via some other means. This ability otherwise follows the normal rules for rage. This ability replaces trapfinding.So a +2 bonus to Str and Dex, no penalty to AC, still able to use Dex skills (I'm on board with this thematically) and no fatigue. All for trapfinding. And it improves to +4 later on... I don't think this is equal to trapfinding - it's a huge buff. That's the mechanics side.
Thematically, I don't get why it's uncontrolled/can't be ended voluntarily.. That seems counter to a controlled, cold-blooded rage. If it's a balancer...
Hello Oceanshieldwolf!
I feel honored that you took the time to review my submission despite your busy schedule! Thank you very much.
I most certainly can explain my train of thought with it, although it may not make it balanced! Essentially the concept for the class was to be more along the lines of Cold-Blooded Killer. So instead of an uncontrolled berserker style rage, it's supposed to be more of a combat rush. I've had experience in hand to hand combat during my time in the Bosnian conflict. So the best way I can explain it, or the thematic effect I was going for, is when you get that all or nothing feeling in the pit of your stomach, cold tingle across your skin (commonly referred to as 'your blood runs cold'). It's a tricky thing to describe because fear is always as much a driving element as anger. This isn't something you can train into someone though. It essentially just takes raw determination, but turning it off isn't easy either, and I didn't feel like turning it off captured that. It's supposed to feel a bit trapping, scary and I'm sure it becomes a seductive feeling eventually. In any case, it was something I based off of real life experience.
Now, I full well know that this is fantasy, and it doesn't have to be 'realistic'. I wrote it up that way, as it made sense to me. A bit droll of me I realize, but it's also cathartic in it's own way to express it. Mind you, I'd never wish my worst enemy into any of those experiences much less wish myself back into them. I don't want people to start thinking I'm a serial killer or something.
In any case, I agree that it's a strong ability. Perhaps stating that it replaces trap finding was a bit misleading, because I actually toned down a lot along the way. The class, over all, loses out on an additional 3d6 worth of sneak attack damage, it is also unable to take Advanced Talents until level 12 as opposed to level 10. That may not seem like much, but it's essentially preventing the class from taking an extra advanced talent that it would otherwise have access to. I realize this is essentially front loading balance, and that has it's own problems.
As for the time in rage, I would expect it to be shorter than your average barbarian as, being a rogue, Dexterity would most likely still be it's primary stat focus, meaning I would expect Constitution to be lower than the average Barbarian's.
I initially based Cold-blooded Rage off of the rage from this archetype: Urban Barbarian
Leaving it at the default +4 Str, Dex, or Con of the urban barbarian seemed extremely overpowered to me when you combine that with the fact the class gains access to rogue talents. Switching it to +2 Str/+2 Dex seemed more thematic and much more fair. I also felt like the bonus to Will saves was also a good balancing move, and thus kept it.
Turning it off was removed for thematic reasons, as I stated above, however I do see making it an all or nothing ability as a drawback. A barbarian can rage for a single turn, use his rage powers to assist with an opponent, turn it off, spend his fatigue rounds moving to the next opponent, turn it back on. I didn't feel like that fit with this class. I felt it fit better being more along the lines of "you go into the 'zone' until the adrenaline runs out" at which point you're back to yourself.
As for fatigue, I didn't think that fit either. Maybe it's far more necessary for balance than I thought, but on the other hand, the biggest drawback I could see for fatigue being a barbarian was the inability to rage while suffering from fatigue (or exhaustion). If the class does rage as 'all or nothing' then adding fatigue isn't really very crippling. Irregardless, I wouldn't be upset to see fatigue added back.
Over all, I do feel like Cold-blooded Rage is less powerful than the regular barbarian rage, which was what I was going for. It may be still be "too powerful" but then again, that's one of the reasons I posted it here. :)
@Blooded Rogue
We'll need a different name I think. Invokes Sorcerer instead of Barbarian.For Coldblooded Rage, there are two options here.
1) Make this work like the Rage spell. For the rogue, I see this more of a stone-cold rage, controllable, but much the same effect. We could either go 2 round or 1 round of rage per level. The spell has no fatigue and is 1 round per level.2) Make this just like normal rage, but with only the +2 stat boost, increases to +4 at a later level.
If it needs reduction in power I think reducing the number of rounds and/or adding fatigue are both great options to balance it out. You could also remove the Greater rage ability if necessary.
I think 'Philosophical Savant' will fit nicely then, since it's mostly in favor.
Philosophical Savant it is.
As for the idea about giving a choice on picking up a new revelation or an arcane school power, I think's nice idea, but arcane school powers have strange unlock levels, following no set order. This is why I suggested the ability to pick up a Revelation or Arcane Discovery.
Sounds good, just wanted to throw the idea out there. Would probably make it unnecessarily complicated anyways.
As for the casting, I'd like to employ the use of both the Wizard's spell list and the Oracle's spell list, and whether it uses Spell Book feature or spontaneous casting is something we may need to work on. So, a character's Arcane School governs the use of spells in both lists, and perhaps cast as Arcane OR Divine as if under the 'Theurgy' Feat, gained at level 1.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/theurgy
I can see this being difficult for elemental schools, though I'm sure it's easy to overcome by following descriptors such as Fire, Cold and so on. Metal, Void and Wood may be tough to cover in the Oracle spells, so I guess it falls to DM discretion in this case.
We've found that mashing two full caster spell list can become very problematic. I would suggest the following...
1) Can choose to learn either her mystery spell or a school spell of equal level when she gains a mystery spell.
2) As #1 plus whenever she gains learns a new spell, it can be from either the cleric/oracle list or her school/subschool. This one could still be unbalancing as this grants a divine caster up to 9th level arcane spells. Thoughts from our arcane spell experts.
Perhaps #2 in conjunction with the Theurgy feat would make it more balanced. Thus, limited to arcane school spells + cleric/oracle spells. In this case, I think Oracle spells per day (spontaneous casting) also helps to keep the balance. This way, she has to pick her spells, and doesn't have the capacity of having spellbooks with all cleric/oracle spells and all her school spells too.
Christos would be happy too, as it would be a Wis spontaneous caster with arcane spells.
as for saves and BAB; The standard oracle progression suits us fine here in my opinion. As for the amount of spells? I see no harm in using the Wizard's spells known/spells per day progression.
As above. Keep Oracle.
I second the spontaneous casting. If you want access to both lists, then this is very important.
2) As #1 plus whenever she gains learns a new spell, it can be from either the cleric/oracle list or her school/subschool. This one could still be unbalancing as this grants a divine caster up to 9th level arcane spells. Thoughts from our arcane spell experts.
Perhaps #2 in conjunction with the Theurgy feat would make it more balanced. Thus, limited to arcane school spells + cleric/oracle spells. In this case, I think Oracle spells per day (spontaneous casting) also helps to keep the balance. This way, she has to pick her spells, and doesn't have the capacity of having spellbooks with all cleric/oracle spells and all her school spells too.
Christos would be happy too, as it would be a Wis spontaneous caster with arcane spells.
Perfect, I think this would work well for the class and keep it balanced. :)
@Blooded Rogue
I'll be getting to your MCA shortly Nihilakh. We haven't forgotten you.
Here's what I've got for the Philosophical Savant. i didn't include Theurgy as abonus feat, as I didn't see the point. I think it can be left as a choice through normal feat selection. There's no real need to incorporate it in.
From the grandest educational establishments to the dens of tribal shamans, knowledge has always been garnered by those who seek answers to the most unsolvable of divine questions. Those who delve deep into these mysteries in pursuit of answers are known as philosophical savants. These philosophical savants are seekers of knowledge and messengers of enlightenment. The life of a philosophical savant is often defined by an extraordinary revelation or some deeper calling that governs their ethical and doctrinal outlook. While the philosophical savant occasionally relies upon divine inspiration and the dogma of her god, she prefers to set her keen mind, reason, and logic to the task of solving such questions. Her belief in the divine allows her to leap beyond the bounds of logic that so readily binds other scholars, while allowing her to achieve feats unknown to those who aren't divinely blessed or cursed. Through the combined knowledge of the divine and the arcane, philosophical savants utilize their sheer arcane willpower to learn hidden secrets and theories that have been long forgotten.
Primary Class: Oracle.
Secondary Class: Wizard.
Alignment: Any.
Hit Die: d8
Bonus Skills and Ranks: The philosopher may select three wizard skills to add to her class skills in addition to the normal oracle class skills. The philosopher gains a number of ranks at each level equal to 4 + Int modifier. Some revelations grant additional class skills.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: The philosopher is proficient with all simple weapons, and with light armor.
Spellcasting: A philosophical savant casts divine spells drawn from the cleric/oracle spell list and adds her subschool spells (and its associated arcane school spells) to her list. The philosophical savant can cast any spell she knows without preparing it ahead of time. A philosophical savant gains bonus spells for a high Wisdom score. A philosophical savant otherwise learns and casts spells as an oracle of her level.
Oracle’s Curse: This is exactly like the oracle ability of the same name, except that the philosophical savant may choose the new Wizard’s Burden curse.
Study: Starting at 1st level, a philosophical savant’s power comes from the knowledge and enlightenment she has obtained. A philosophical savant must choose one area of study. Each area of study grants the philosophical savant an arcane subschool and an oracle mystery. Once an area of study is chosen, it cannot be changed. The philosophical savant does not gain any school powers only access its spells. If the philosophical savant has chosen Wizard’s Burden as her oracle’s curse, her chosen arcane school becomes the subschool and its associated school granted by her area of study. A philosophical savant can choose one of the following arcane of elemental areas of study.
Arcane Studies: These areas of study focus on specific subschools of magic and oracle mysteries.
• Anomaly: Eldritch magic seeps into the world in unexplainable ways. As such, the philosophical savant of the anomaly study finds herself intrigued by these primal events. The philosophical savant gains access to the Shapechange subschool and the Spellscar mystery.
• Cabalist: The mysteries of the occult world rings true to many pursuers of knowledge, but none more so than the philosophical savant of the cabalist study. The philosophical savant gains to the Banishment subschool and Occult mystery.
• Druidic: While not inherently a druid, the philosophical savant takes her teachings from and seeks the wisdom born of the druidic study. The philosophical savant gains access to the Creation subschool and Nature mystery.
• Health: The philosophical savant gains access who treasures life often follows the health study and dedicates her study to medicine and physical care over a willingness to harm others. The philosophical savant gains access to the Life subschool and Life mystery.
• Infernal: The demons and devils entice many with forbidden knowledge, and techniques for exerting mastery over these creatures. To the philosophical savant, such knowledge is known as the infernal sStudy. The philosophical savant gains access to the Infernal Binder subschool and Outer Rifts mystery.
• Knowledge: Philosophy in its original form is the pursuit of lore and secrets, and otherwise known to the philosophical savant as the knowledge study. The philosophical savant gains access to the Scryer subschool and Lore mystery.
• Martial: While some say violence is never the answer. However, the philosophical savant who say otherwise, treasuring the knowledge of tactics and warfare, enters the martial study. The philosophical savant gains access to the Generation subschool and Battle mystery.
• Nocturnal: The night holds many secrets and dark powers, but to the philosophical savant that pursues such knowledge calls it the nocturnal study. The philosophical savant gains access to the Shadow subschool and Lunar mystery.
• Ritual: Voodoo and juju are mysterious and deadly magics indeed. It is worthy of examination and practice by the philosophical savant who has entered the ritual study. The philosophical savant gains access to the Manipulator subschool and Juju mystery.
• Spectrum: Light and color build the foundations of illusion and perception. So it is to the philosophical savant who follows the spectrum study. The philosophical savant gains access to the Mage of the Veil subschool and Heavens mystery.
• Spiritual: Ghosts and apparitions that manifest themselves on the material plane intrigue certain philosophical savants, and so they enter the estranged spiritual study. The philosophical savant gains access to the Phantasm subschool and Ancestor mystery.
• Temporal: The concept of time is something of a mystery, but to what degree is it controllable is the question raised by philosophical savants that follow the temporal study. The philosophical savant gains access to the Foresight subschool and Time mystery.
• Undeath: Followers of the undeath study examine the undead and the effects of necromantic energies, tapping into this dark forbidden knowledge. The philosophical savant gains access to the Undead subschool and Bones mystery.
Elemental Studies: These areas of study focus on elemental schools of magic and oracle mysteries.
• Aquatic: Water as an element offers freedom and life, to which the followers of the aquatic study will testify, harnessing the powers over the waves and seas. The philosophical savant gains access to the Water elemental school and Waves mystery.
• Carpentry: To some philosophical savant’s, carpentry is an honest craft, while to others, basic natural elements like wood and fibers have the capacity for so much more. Thus, certain philosophical savants have brought the carpentry study into existence. They have a The philosophical savant gains access to the Wood elemental school and Wood mystery.
• Cryogenic: The power of arctic frost and bitter cold can be utterly devastating to those who do not understand its powers. To those philosophical savants who do are often drawn to the cryogenic study. The philosophical savant gains access to the Cold* elemental subschool and Winter mystery.
• Geology: Earth provides foundation and stability, and as such those philosophical savant’s learning from the geology study better understand the force of stone. The philosophical savant gains access to the Earth elemental school and Stone mystery.
• Incendiary: Fire represents power and knowledge. While often seen as pyromaniacs, this is a standard to which the philosophical savants of the incendiary study adhere. The philosophical savant gains access to the Fire elemental school and Flame mystery.
• Metallic: Metal is a malleable and practical element, used to create the sharpest blades and toughest armor. The philosophical savant of the metallic study prides herself on knowledge of metalsmithing and battle. The philosophical savant gains access to the Metal elemental school and Metal mystery.
• Stellar: The dark tapestry entices many to seek the knowledge of star patterns and wonder what lies beyond. The philosophical savant who does is often part of the stellar study. The philosophical savant gains access to the Void elemental school and Dark Tapestry mystery.
• Weather: There are those who believe a shift in the wind is an omen and that storms represent a change in events. Such ideas lure the superstitious philosophical savant to the weather study. The philosophical savant gains access to the Air elemental school and Winds mystery. *(see the Cold elemental subschool by Super Genius Games)
This ability otherwise functions as and replaces the oracle’s mystery ability.
Revelation: This is exactly like the oracle ability of the same name, except that that whenever the philosophical savant could select a revelation from her mystery, she can choose an arcane discovery that she qualifies for instead.
Table: Philosophical Savant
Base
Class Attack Fort Ref Will Spells per Day
Level Bonus Save Save Save Special 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th 7th 8th 9th
1st +0 +0 +0 +2 Oracle’s curse, orisons, revelation, study 3 — — — — — — — —
2nd +1 +0 +0 +3 Mystery spell 4 — — — — — — — —
3rd +2 +1 +1 +3 Revelation 5 — — — — — — — —
4th +3 +1 +1 +4 Mystery spell 6 3 — — — — — — —
5th +3 +1 +1 +4 6 4 — — — — — — —
6th +4 +2 +2 +5 Mystery spell 6 5 3 — — — — — —
7th +5 +2 +2 +5 Revelation 6 6 4 — — — — — —
8th +6/+1 +2 +2 +6 Mystery spell 6 6 5 3 — — — — —
9th +6/+1 +3 +3 +6 6 6 6 4 — — — — —
10th +7/+2 +3 +3 +7 Mystery spell 6 6 6 5 3 — — — —
11th +8/+3 +3 +3 +7 Revelation 6 6 6 6 4 — — — —
12th +9/+4 +4 +4 +8 Mystery spell 6 6 6 6 5 3 — — —
13th +9/+4 +4 +4 +8 6 6 6 6 6 4 — — —
14th +10/+5 +4 +4 +9 Mystery spell 6 6 6 6 6 5 3 — —
15th +11/+6/+1 +5 +5 +9 Revelation 6 6 6 6 6 6 4 — —
16th +12/+7/+2 +5 +5 +10 Mystery spell 6 6 6 6 6 6 5 3 —
17th +12/+7/+2 +5 +5 +10 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 4 —
18th +13/+8/+3 +6 +6 +11 Mystery spell 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 5 3
19th +14/+9/+4 +6 +6 +11 Revelation 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 4
20th +15/+10/+5 +6 +6 +12 Final revelation 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 6
And here's a new oracle's curse that can be chosen by any oracle. If this one is chosen, then the PS can gain additional arcane spells as mystery spells.
You choose one arcane school (or subschool) or one elemental school as your school of focus. When you learn a mystery spells, you can choose to learn a school spell of the same level in place of your mystery spell. You also choose two arcane schools or your opposite elemental school as your opposition school(s). This represents your focus on a specific area of magical knowledge. If you cast spells from your opposition school(s) you must use two spell slots of that level to cast the spell. For example, an oracle with evocation as an opposition school must expend two of her available 3rd-level spell slots to cast a fireball. You also take a –4 penalty on any skill checks made when crafting a magic item that has a spell from one of your opposition schools as a prerequisite. In addition, you suffer a –2 penalty to your saving throws against any spell from your opposition school(s) that is cast against you. The spell’s effect lasts for 1 extra round if the saving throw against that spell fails.
At 5th level, you add half your oracle class level (minimum 1) to all Knowledge skill checks and may make all Knowledge skill checks untrained.
At 10th level, you can cast any spell from your arcane school (or subschool) or elemental school of focus with a +1 caster level.
At 15th level, you gain spell resistance equal to your oracle level against all spells (arcane or divine) with the same alignment type as your own.
@Blooded Rogue
1) we need a better name.
2) I want to address the Coldblooded Rage ability. The urban barbarian's ability may actually be a good ability to use for this. Obviously the balance to the Controlled Rage ability is the fact that its a +4 bonus applied to only one ability (Str, Dex, or Con) or split into +2 to two abilities, plus the lack of AC penalty, Will save bonus, and able to do Int, Dex, and Cha-based skills. I really think this fits.
To balance it out more, I think we can reduce the rounds of rage to 2 + Con mod at 1st, and 1 round per level after 1st. So essentially, she can rage for only 1.2 the time a true barbarian can at the same level.
I also think if we change the fatigued to shaken after a rage ends, its more in flavor. I also think incorporating a Concentration check to end the rage would be good, to show the difficulting of ending it like Nihilakh has suggested. I think we can make this as true to life as possible with a few tweaks.
So here's what I'm suggesting.
To end a cold rage, the blooded rogue must make a concentration check. The DC for this check is equal to 10 + the number of rounds spent in cold rage. Once a cold rage ends, the blooded rogue is shaken for a number of rounds equal to the number of rounds spent in the cold rage. A blooded rogue cannot enter a new cold rage while shaken but can otherwise enter a cold rage multiple times during a single encounter or combat. This ability replaces trapfinding.
We could reduce this to +2 for the Cold Rage, and up to +4 for the Greater Cold Rage ability if everyone thinks +4 at 1st and +6 for GCR is too much. If we did that, we could probably remove the shaken condition. I think I'm leaning towards this.
I'm not sure if the DC of the Concentration check is sufficient or not. I have it at 10 + rounds of rage, but also though 10 + double the rounds spent in rage. I looked at the concentration table on the d20PFSRD and based it off of the various spell DCs for concentration. Thoughts?
I think the key ones to compare this to are the following.
Cast defensively (15 + double spell level)
Vigorous motion while casting (10 + spell level)
Violent motion while casting (15 + spell level)
Extremely violent motion while casting (20 + spell level
As you would use the blooded rogue's level as the caster level (essentially a bonus to the check = your level) plus Cha mod as the "casting" ability score, and we don't want it to be too easy or too hard to end at 1st level, I think maybe the 10 + rounds in cold rage or 10 + double rounds in cold rage. At 1st, a max of 3 or 4 rounds, making that a 13 (16 if double) or 14 (18 if double) on a d20. So d20 +1 level +2 Cha. At 20th it could be 22 rounds or more, so 10 +22 (or 44) if she went all out. So a d20 +20 level + say +5 (Cha 20) vs either a DC of 32 or 54. Thoughts?
# Philosophical Savant
Nice mash Elghinn!
Just on flavor, and I can see you are trying to avoid using the same names as the mashups where possible, but....
Carpentry? How about Fiber, Lignin, Botanic or just plain Wood? Worked for the metal/metal mash Metallic.
Cryogenic? How about Boreal? Or Frozen? "Do you wanna build a snowman"... (sorry, couldn't help it, took my son to see it recently...)
Health for Life/Life? How about just Life?
Druidic? How about Gaia or just Nature?
I really like the rest of the studies and the reasons you give for them. Makes me want to play a PS, if only because it's a 3/4 BAB divine caster with wizard spells. Which an oracle/wizard should be...
# Blooded Rogue
Cool Killer. Dedicated Assailant. Vengeful/Studied Striker.
Cold-blooded works fine for me...
I'm fine with shaken rather than fatigued and yes, it can be dispensed with if the bonuses are lower than the vanilla Barbarian.
Concentration to end is a fantastic idea. Not sure on the D (I'm not understanding your example yet...) but I wouldn't go higher than 15 + (something). Maybe the DC increases by 1 or 2 per round of cold-blooded rage as you get drawn further into the zone...
#Philosophical Savant
I didn't name them, just used what was given to us. Though I think those simple changes would be good. Wood, Boreal, Life, and Nature are more in tune with other namings of things.
#Blooded Rogue
I assume you mean Cold Killer, not Cool Killer? I like Coldblooded Killer...
I really think that if we go with Cold Rage built on the Urban Barbarian's Controllable Rage mechanics, reduce to +2 bonus to one of the three stats, 2 + Con rounds plus 1 round per level (like the spell), then have it increase to +4 for Greater Cold Rage, and use the concentration check, and no shaken (or fatigue), those two abilities should be more or less a balanced swap for Trapfinding and a Rogue Talent. Essentially you're gaining Rage for Trapfinding and a Rogue Talent, but it's a lesser version until 9th, when she gets her Greater Cold Rage.
Rogues can be so difficult to do swaps with, as they seem to be underpowered compared to other classes.
Cool Killer was more in jest. ;)
# Blooded Rogue
@ Cold Rage
As 'wolf already pointed out, the cold rage is overpowered. A Dex bonus is a lot better than a Con bonus because the bonus hit points get you killed. But that is already being worked on.
I feel fatigued is actually a pretty good description of the aftereffects of an adrenaline rush, shaken makes it more of a mental condition.
I don't quite see the point in making it hard to control; as it has no enforced activity (killing indiscriminately seems way off here), all it does is eat your precious rage rounds. I think I prefer to make the player nervous about running out of scarce rounds rather than make it a die roll.
# Philosophical Savant
I feel it is manageable to pick from both cleric and wizard lists for a spontaneous caster - the choices are made outside of game time, and the number you have to chose from during the game is not huge.
# Philosophical Savant
I feel it is manageable to pick from both cleric and wizard lists for a spontaneous caster - the choices are made outside of game time, and the number you have to chose from during the game is not huge.
I think it's possible, I feel as though players may wish to take some wizard spells from schools she isn't restricted to (that is to say ones that aren't part of her two sacrificed schools or chosen focus school).
I think it would be best to keep Oracle's Discovery Bonus Spells and the Wizard's arcane school powers, as they help define the Study a whole lot more, otherwise the choice in arcane subschool becomes completely irrelevant, and would make a normal Oracle/Wizard build more appealing.
As for the Oracle's Curse? The Wizard's Burden is ideal for the class, but other curses don't really seem to fit in so well, so I feel as though it'd be better just to have Wizard's Burden in place of standard curses. Though perhaps name it something like 'Burden of Wisdom', 'Close Minded' or perhaps 'Scholar's Bane'.
#Philosophical Savant
I didn't name them, just used what was given to us. Though I think those simple changes would be good. Wood, Boreal, Life, and Nature are more in tune with other namings of things.
The names of Studies I put aren't set in stone, I feel as though if somebody wanted to rename them, it's up to the player :)
The only thing I didn't want to do was repeat the names given for the mysteries or schools, hence avoiding 'Wood' and 'Life' originally, it was a little on the nose to me~
I think it would be best to keep Oracle's Discovery Bonus Spells and the Wizard's arcane school powers, as they help define the Study a whole lot more, otherwise the choice in arcane subschool becomes completely irrelevant, and would make a normal Oracle/Wizard build more appealing.
You'll need to explain this further. What are you saying you want to keep? Sounds like you want to keep the wizard school's bonus spells and school powers, but what do we get rid of? We can certainly allow the choice of either a mystery or school spell. With revelations, there's no room for school powers. Uless you are suggestion getting rid of revelations in favor of the school powers, or what I had suggested before, allow them to choose either the school powers of revelations at 1st?
I also made a change to Cold Rage. Istead of a static concentration to end the rage, I changed it so that ending the rage requires a full-round action instead of a free action (like the barbarian), making it a tougher type of rage to end. At 5th it improves to a standard action. Then, if she makes her concentration check (at whatever level), she can end it as a free action.
So instead of an unended rage continuing each round and costing rounds of rage, it has an action economy penalty instead. So, make concentration, end it as a free action, fail, it can be ended as a full-round action (or a standard action at 5ht).
Then Greater Cold Rage improves the morale bonus, and the action economy to end the rage from standard action to a move action, as she should be getting better at it in general as she levels.
A cold rage is not easily ended. The coldblooded killer can end her cold rage as a full-round action. At 5th level, this improves to a standard action. A coldblooded killer can focus her mind and force her rage to end as a free action if she makes a successful concentration check. This check uses her coldblooded killer level as her caster level and Charisma as her casting ability. The DC for this check is equal to 15 + the number of rounds spent in cold rage. If the check fails, the coldblooded killer ends her cold rage as a full-round action or a standard action as normal. A coldblooded killer can enter a cold rage multiple times during a single encounter or combat. This ability replaces trapfinding.
You'll need to explain this further. What are you saying you want to keep? Sounds like you want to keep the wizard school's bonus spells and school powers, but what do we get rid of? We can certainly allow the choice of either a mystery or school spell. With revelations, there's no room for school powers. Uless you are suggestion getting rid of revelations in favor of the school powers, or what I had suggested before, allow them to choose either the school powers of revelations at 1st?
I think it would be best to keep Oracle's Discovery Bonus Spells and the Wizard's arcane school powers, as they help define the Study a whole lot more, otherwise the choice in arcane subschool becomes completely irrelevant, and would make a normal Oracle/Wizard build more appealing.
I'm unsure what in this class dictates the need for sacrifice, when all that's put into the class is already available if you were to play Oracle/Wizard normally (albeit somewhat handicapped).
What I'm suggesting is that this class keeps it's Arcane School spells and powers, as well as gaining access to Revelations and Mystery Bonus Spells. It makes little sense if we're removing core content from each class to make sacrifices that need not be made. School powers are a key aspect in why these subclasses exist, or else it'd be plain Necromancy, Abjuration, etc.
If there's anything that perhaps provides greater balance if a sacrifice is absolutely necessary is to instead remove Arcane Discoveries, as I've found some eliminate the need for certain Revelations.
So to reiterate;
- Arcane School Powers. Keep these and offer them in place of a Revelation at levels 1, 3 and 7 (as there are two level 1 abilities and one at 6-9)
- Revelations. A key aspect, no doubt remaining with the class
- Mystery Bonus Spells. Would be allowed to be kept in maybe?
- Opposition Schools. Only the wizard spell list is affected, or both wizard and oracle?
- Wizard's Bonus Spells. To what are you referring? There's no 'bonus' spells included in Arcane Schools.
- Oracle's Curse. Removed in place of 'Wizard's Burden' (or whatever it shall be named)
- Arcane Discoveries. Seem like weaker or unbalanced versions of Revelations, can be removed?
There is a difference between injecting options into the MCA, and full-out giving it all the abilities of the two classes. I suggested the swap out of revelations for school powers before, but it comes down to what is balanced. Three revelations for the three school powers may not be balanced. Remeber we are combining a full arcane caster with 1/2 BAB with a full divine caster with 3/4 BAB. Oracles have up to 9th level spells, with all his curse and mystery related things, while a wizard is full arcane with arcane bond, arcane schools, and bonus feats. So we need to decide what is an even swap.
Maybe we can reduce the number of revelations and give school powers also, instead of the whole idea of choosing one or the other. An oracle with full access to arcane spells is similar to a sorcerer, but also has divine spell access, a 3/4 BAB, and mystery spells and revelations instead of bloodline spells, powers, and feats.
I would deem that arcane school is at least on par with mystery spells, plus 1/2 of the revelations, including final revelation, as one of the powers always increases up to 20th. The curse is likely equal to arcane bond, and the rest of the revelations are equal to the wizard's bonus feats.
Aproximate Equivalents
Light armor + med armor prof = 2 wizard bonus feats
Orisons = cantrips
Oracle's Curse = Arcane bond + Arcane opposition schools
Mystery spells = bonus school spell from arcane school
3 revelations + final revelation = Arcane school powers
Last 3 revelations = wizard's Scribe Scroll and 2 bonus feats
So, I think we should beable to allow the choice of either a school spell or mystery spell when gaining a mystery spell, then we can swap out the revelations at 1st, 7th, and 15th, plus final revelation, and give the school powers at 1st, 7th and 15th. that leaves a revelation at 3rd/11th/19th.
Burden of Wisdom will simply be a manditory curse choice for the MCA.
Another thing is, with access to all the wizards spells, whose to say she doesn't slect only spells from the wizard list. Spells on the wiz/sorcerer list are far more potent that those on the cleric/oracle list. That essentially makes a 3/4 BAB wizard with full casting. To off set this, I thinks the Philosophical Savant should have to spend a spell slot 1 level higher to cast her arcane spells. This would limit her to 8th level wizard spells, and cost a higher level slot to balance the power issue of certain spells, unless it's also on the cleric/oracle spell list, then it can be cast at normal level.
I would suggest this strongly, as I've spent a over 3 years building these things with Raider, who is our MCP resident arcane spellcaster expert, and this is definitely something he'd suggest too. Infact, he'd like suggest picking 4 opposition schools...:D
This is all part of the balancing when combining so many aspects of two classes.
Here's some changes again. I think we're finally where Tyrannical wants this to be. I swapped out revelations at 1st/7th/15th + Final revelation for school powers, removed the option to choose arcane discoveries in place of a revelation as there is only 3 now) and moved that to part of the Oracle's Curse, allowing her to select arcane discoveries in place of regular feats like a wizard.
Also, casting arcane spells requires a spell slot 1 level higher, unless that spell is a school spell learned as a mystery spell, in which case it's cast at normal level and is now considered a divine or oracle spell for this purpose.
Anyways, take a look.
From the grandest educational establishments to the dens of tribal shamans, knowledge has always been garnered by those who seek answers to the most unsolvable of divine questions. Those who delve deep into these mysteries in pursuit of answers are known as philosophical savants. These philosophical savants are seekers of knowledge and messengers of enlightenment. The life of a philosophical savant is often defined by an extraordinary revelation or some deeper calling that governs their ethical and doctrinal outlook. While the philosophical savant occasionally relies upon divine inspiration and the dogma of her god, she prefers to set her keen mind, reason, and logic to the task of solving such questions. Her belief in the divine allows her to leap beyond the bounds of logic that so readily binds other scholars, while allowing her to achieve feats unknown to those who aren't divinely blessed or cursed. Through the combined knowledge of the divine and the arcane, philosophical savants utilize their sheer arcane willpower to learn hidden secrets and theories that have been long forgotten.
Primary Class: Oracle.
Secondary Class: Wizard.
Alignment: Any.
Hit Die: d8
Bonus Skills and Ranks: The philosopher may select three wizard skills to add to her class skills in addition to the normal oracle class skills. The philosopher gains a number of ranks at each level equal to 4 + Int modifier. Some revelations grant additional class skills.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: The philosopher is proficient with all simple weapons, and with light armor.
Spellcasting: A philosophical savant casts divine spells drawn from the cleric/oracle spell list and the sorcerer/wizard spell list. The philosophical savant can cast any spell she knows without preparing it ahead of time. However, casting a sorcerer/wizard spell that is not on the cleric/oracle spell list expends a spell slot one level higher than normal. If a spell appears on both spell lists, the philosophical savant uses the cleric/oracle spell list to determine its level. In addition, a philosophical savant gains bonus spells for a high Wisdom score. A philosophical savant otherwise learns and casts spells as an oracle of her level.
Oracle’s Curse: This is exactly like the oracle ability of the same name, except that the philosophical savant must choose the new Scholar’s Burden curse. Any school spell learned as a mystery spell is considered a divine spell and does not require a spell slot one level higher to cast it. In addition, a philosophical savant is considered a wizard for the purpose of qualifying for arcane discoveries, and may choose one in place of a regular feat.
School Powers: At 1st level, a philosophical savant gains the powers of her arcane subschool or elemental school. She gains her first school power at 1st level, her second school power at 7th level, and her third school power at 15th level. This ability replaces the revelations gained at 3rd, 7th, and 15th level, and her final revelation.
Study: Starting at 1st level, a philosophical savant’s power comes from the knowledge and enlightenment she has obtained. A philosophical savant must choose one area of study. Each area of study grants the philosophical savant an arcane subschool or elemental school and an oracle mystery. Once an area of study is chosen, it cannot be changed. The philosophical savant cannot choose the arcane subschool or elemental school granted from her area of study as one of her Scholar’s Burden opposition schools. The philosophical savant chooses one of the following arcane or elemental areas of study.
Arcane Studies: These areas of study focus on specific subschools of magic and oracle mysteries.
• Anomaly: Eldritch magic seeps into the world in unexplainable ways. As such, the philosophical savant of the anomaly study finds herself intrigued by these primal events. The philosophical savant gains access to the Shapechange subschool and the Spellscar mystery.
• Cabalist: The mysteries of the occult world rings true to many pursuers of knowledge, but none more so than the philosophical savant of the cabalist study. The philosophical savant gains to the Banishment subschool and Occult mystery.
• Gaia: While not inherently a druid, the philosophical savant takes her teachings from and seeks wisdom born of the gaia study. The philosophical savant gains access to the Creation subschool and Nature mystery.
• Infernal: The demons and devils entice many with forbidden knowledge, and techniques for exerting mastery over these creatures. To the philosophical savant, such knowledge is known as the infernal study. The philosophical savant gains access to the Infernal Binder subschool and Outer Rifts mystery.
• Knowledge: Philosophy in its original form is the pursuit of lore and secrets, and otherwise known to the philosophical savant as the knowledge study. The philosophical savant gains access to the Scryer subschool and Lore mystery.
• Martial: While some say violence is never the answer. However, some philosophical savants treasure the knowledge of tactics and warfare and enter the martial study. The philosophical savant gains access to the Generation subschool and Battle mystery.
• Nocturnal: The night holds many secrets and dark powers, but to the philosophical savant that pursues such knowledge calls it the nocturnal study. The philosophical savant gains access to the Shadow subschool and Lunar mystery.
• Ritual: Voodoo and juju are mysterious and deadly magics indeed. It is worthy of examination and practice by the philosophical savant who has entered the ritual study. The philosophical savant gains access to the Manipulator subschool and Juju mystery.
• Spectrum: Light and color build the foundations of illusion and perception. So it is to the philosophical savant who follows the spectrum study. The philosophical savant gains access to the Mage of the Veil subschool and Heavens mystery.
• Spiritual: Ghosts and apparitions that manifest themselves on the material plane intrigue certain philosophical savants, and so they enter the estranged spiritual study. The philosophical savant gains access to the Phantasm subschool and Ancestor mystery.
• Temporal: The concept of time is something of a mystery, but to what degree is it controllable is the question raised by philosophical savants that follow the temporal study. The philosophical savant gains access to the Foresight subschool and Time mystery.
• Undeath: Followers of the undeath study examine the undead and the effects of necromantic energies, tapping into this dark forbidden knowledge. The philosophical savant gains access to the Undead subschool and Bones mystery.
• Vigor: The philosophical savant who treasures life often follows the vigor study and dedicates her study to medicine and physical care over a willingness to harm others. The philosophical savant gains access to the Life subschool and Life mystery.
Elemental Studies: These areas of study focus on elemental schools of magic and oracle mysteries.
• Aquatic: Water as an element offers freedom and life, to which the followers of the aquatic study will testify, harnessing the powers over the waves and seas. The philosophical savant gains access to the Water elemental school and Waves mystery.
• Boreal: The power of arctic frost and bitter cold can be utterly devastating to those who do not understand its powers. To those philosophical savants who do are often drawn to the boreal study. The philosophical savant gains access to the Cold* elemental subschool and Winter mystery.
• Geology: Earth provides foundation and stability, and as such, those philosophical savant’s learning from the geology study better understand the force of stone. The philosophical savant gains access to the Earth elemental school and Stone mystery.
• Incendiary: Fire represents power and knowledge. While often seen as pyromaniacs, this is a standard to which the philosophical savants of the incendiary study adhere. The philosophical savant gains access to the Fire elemental school and Flame mystery.
• Metallic: Metal is a malleable and practical element, used to create the sharpest blades and toughest armor. The philosophical savant of the metallic study prides herself on knowledge of metalsmithing and battle. The philosophical savant gains access to the Metal elemental school and Metal mystery.
• Stellar: The dark tapestry entices many to seek the knowledge of star patterns and wonder what lies beyond. The philosophical savant who does is often part of the stellar study. The philosophical savant gains access to the Void elemental school and Dark Tapestry mystery.
• Timbers: To some philosophical savant’s, woodworking is an honest craft, while to others, basic natural elements like wood and fibers have the capacity for so much more. Thus, certain philosophical savants have brought the timbers study into existence. The philosophical savant gains access to the Wood elemental school and Wood mystery.
• Weather: There are those who believe a shift in the wind is an omen and that storms represent a change in events. Such ideas lure the superstitious philosophical savant to the weather study. The philosophical savant gains access to the Air elemental school and Winds mystery. *(see the Cold elemental subschool by Super Genius Games)
This ability otherwise functions as and replaces the oracle’s mystery ability.
Revelations: This is exactly like the oracle ability of the same name, except that that the philosophical savant can choose a revelation from her mystery at 3rd, 11th and 19th level.
Table: Philosophical Savant
Base
Class Attack Fort Ref Will Spells per Day
Level Bonus Save Save Save Special 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th 7th 8th 9th
1st +0 +0 +0 +2 Oracle’s curse, orisons, school power, study 3 — — — — — — — —
2nd +1 +0 +0 +3 Mystery spell 4 — — — — — — — —
3rd +2 +1 +1 +3 Revelation 5 — — — — — — — —
4th +3 +1 +1 +4 Mystery spell 6 3 — — — — — — —
5th +3 +1 +1 +4 6 4 — — — — — — —
6th +4 +2 +2 +5 Mystery spell 6 5 3 — — — — — —
7th +5 +2 +2 +5 School power 6 6 4 — — — — — —
8th +6/+1 +2 +2 +6 Mystery spell 6 6 5 3 — — — — —
9th +6/+1 +3 +3 +6 6 6 6 4 — — — — —
10th +7/+2 +3 +3 +7 Mystery spell 6 6 6 5 3 — — — —
11th +8/+3 +3 +3 +7 Revelation 6 6 6 6 4 — — — —
12th +9/+4 +4 +4 +8 Mystery spell 6 6 6 6 5 3 — — —
13th +9/+4 +4 +4 +8 6 6 6 6 6 4 — — —
14th +10/+5 +4 +4 +9 Mystery spell 6 6 6 6 6 5 3 — —
15th +11/+6/+1 +5 +5 +9 School power 6 6 6 6 6 6 4 — —
16th +12/+7/+2 +5 +5 +10 Mystery spell 6 6 6 6 6 6 5 3 —
17th +12/+7/+2 +5 +5 +10 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 4 —
18th +13/+8/+3 +6 +6 +11 Mystery spell 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 5 3
19th +14/+9/+4 +6 +6 +11 Revelation 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 4
20th +15/+10/+5 +6 +6 +12 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 6
You choose one arcane school (or its subschool) or one elemental school as your school of focus. When you learn a mystery spell, you can choose to learn a school spell of the same level in place of your mystery spell. A school spell learned in this way is now considered a divine spell.
You also choose two arcane schools or your opposite elemental school as your opposition school(s), which also applies to your oracle spells. This represents your focus on a specific area of magical knowledge. If you cast spells from your opposition school(s) you must use two spell slots of that level to cast the spell. For example, an oracle with evocation as an opposition school must expend two of her available 3rd-level spell slots to cast a fireball.
You also take a –4 penalty on any skill checks made when crafting a magic item that has a spell from one of your opposition schools as a prerequisite. In addition, you suffer a –2 penalty to your saving throws against any spell from your opposition school(s) that is cast against you. The spell’s effect lasts for 1 extra round if the saving throw against that spell fails.
At 5th level, you add half your oracle class level (minimum 1) to all Knowledge skill checks and may make all Knowledge skill checks untrained.
At 10th level, you can cast any spell from your arcane school (or subschool) or elemental school of focus with a +1 caster level.
At 15th level, you gain spell resistance equal to your oracle level against all spells (arcane or divine) with the same alignment type as your own.
Perfect!
Glad we could come to a happy compromise, I understand I can be quite the handful when it comes to bartering balance and mechanics. No disrespect intended of course, but as a newbie it's easy to feel intimidated by the veterans here :P
The only thing I'd say is keep the Final Revelation at it's position at level 20. Since all the other Oracle MCA's feature Final Revelations, and without it it wouldn't feel much like an Oracle primary without it.
Can't wait to see this up and running on the MCA page, thanks a bunch!
Don't feel intimidated. The one thing I expect from a newbie or anyone coming to this thread is a good idea of what they want to keep from both classes. I can't work with what I don't know I need to work with. Plus, as I'm sure OSW would confirm, when it comes to working with these things and other's ideas, I'm more velvet glove than iron hand.
Glad you like it! I think its a good mash of both classes and fits a niche not yet filled. If you have other concepts for MCA combos not yet created, feel free to post up a queue hold for it and I'll add you in.
As to the final revelation, the thing is that's an oracle's capstone, while the wizard's capstone is always his first school power, which the MCA gets at 1st. And we never incorporate two capstones into an MCA, it's always one or the other.