Orientalementalists

[I'm Hiding In Your Closet]

I've been idly entertaining the prospect of making a Metal, Wood, and/or Void Elemental Wizard. They have a strong je ne sais quoi that makes me want to at least see them in action. They each have their significant issues, though: Metal has a pretty good spell list, but the school powers leave much to be desired (I like Shrapnel Burst, but it doesn't do enough to make up for the other two). Wood has some pretty good school powers, but I'd like some input as to how to put the very subtle and situational spell list to best use (not that I have any problem with subtle and situational, mind you). Void is a mixed bag; it offers some good spells and 2 school powers out of 3 are good, but others are disappointing, and there are a couple spell levels where the school doesn't offer any good options of the sort appropriate to preparing every day of an adventure (which is what one does with the bonus spell slot of each level that all specialist wizards get).

Long story short (too late?) my interest is nonetheless piqued by these schools of wizardry, and I'm looking for pointers on how one might do well with them and make the least of their defects, as well as stories of people's own experiences with them.

[Master of the Dark Triad]

I've heard spellbinder+void school is really tough.

[nate lange]

i like wood elementalist for an arcane druid... like you said, they have interesting, though often subtle, spells (with some druid crossover); if you take the Magaambyan Arcanist PrC (Collegiate Arcanist on pfsrd) you get to add even more druid spells to your list and pick up some other interesting powers (and gain the ability to take sacred summons if you want). you can also take a 3 feat tree to add an animal companion, though your choice of animals is restricted (see nature soul and animal ally from faiths and philosophies, plus boon companion).

[I'm Hiding In Your Closet]

Master of the Dark Triad wrote:

I've heard spellbinder+void school is really tough.

How so?

Anyone else have any feedback?

[Master of the Dark Triad]

I'm not positive, but I think spell binder lets you prep chosen spells in a minute. This combined with a void school ability that lowers enemy saves without a save makes you quite versatile.

[I'm Hiding In Your Closet]

Anyone have anything else to say? I was hoping for more input here....

[insaneogeddon]

Wood elementalist stat boost is good but with wizard bab the spear ability is useless. Cooperative defense can save the odd familiar, animal companion or poor will save fighter but could equally assure a TPK.

Spells are sub-par. No point competing with druids/nature oracles/fey sorcerers at their game!

Metal has the armor thing (a REAL let down) but 2 great things. Swift action shrapnel burst and extra damage vs armored opponents from 1st. Thats killer exp. as it says "The damage is of the same type as the spell."
.... just make sure said spell does bleed or ability damage and your right !!

Spells are great and spread through saves/damage, utility and some exotics. the Focus on lightning and anti-fire school might be an issue in some campaigns but there are plenty of fine cold spells and metal gives you sonic spells.

Theme wise metal is great for a crafter - who better to make constructs?

[Third Mind]

I'm playing a wood wizard in a kingmaker campaign and the splinter spear ability has actually been quite useful at lower levels. Sure, later it's less useful, but by then you have awesome spells. The ability to shore up attribute weaknesses was and still is awesome. As for spell list, while it's unconfirmed if it's right, you do get Sirocco at lv. 4 even though it's normally a lv. 6 spell. Entangle can be a good crowd control spell early on and the only spells I've really missed that my opposing school makes harder to use is Glitterdust and Lightning Bolt. Wind wall is great for me basically making swarms and archers less of a problem. Overall, I'm happy with my wood wizard.

[insaneogeddon]

Something worth noting if your intending a wood/air elementalist is the sylph race. Bonus to int and favored class =

"Wizard: Select one arcane school power from the air or wood elemental schools that the wizard can currently use. The wizard treats her class level as though it were +1/2 higher (to a maximum of +4) when determining the effects of that power."

Might be better with air elementalist though, fly at will at 7th level nevermind you can stack it with the sylph wind listener archetype a better group of abilities. Wind Listener gives you all your divination needs and perception and Air Elementalists get suffocation,lightning spells, sirrico, shout etc so make for a good save or die + blaster.
A great advantage of the elementalist schools!

[I'm Hiding In Your Closet]

Thank you, thank you...how about Void?

[insaneogeddon]

Void is weird considering your original question.

Wood and Metal fit into the wood, metal, fire, water, earth chinese style mythology.

Void even though its name is no doubt plagiarized from the Japanese Miyamoto Musashi book of 5 rings. Its really more 'aether' and fits into the greek classic western elements.
Fire, water, earth, air and aether (void).

Paizo separates them as such-

its either:
air, fire, water, earth OR air fire, water, earth, void OR fire, water, earth, wood, metal.

So really probably decide on the mythos you're playing first. That will happily limit the choice.

Its EITHER wood and metal OR void.

That said. Void: Bonus spells are bad. The spell list is all passive but great- each level there is something you would likely want anyway. Bonus to saves is nice if you get targeted. Reveal weakness is kinda a waste unless you have nothing better to do (cannot even be quickened as its an (su) ability! Aura of prescience is good if you have nothing better to do but as an 8th level wizard you probably have better things to do.

Its hard to beat static or constant bonuses or swift actions! Casters are one of the classes that struggle not to have something great to do round to round so filler abilities are questionable.

RP wise I have yet to see a wood based philosophy that's convincing after a few cheap jokes. It hampers the awesome wood oracle archer as well if you role play. Void is good if you go the distant/knowing/confused visionary and metal works with civilized/adventuring parties quite well - the conan 'riddle of steel' thing is pretty cannon for sword and sorcery.

[insaneogeddon]

Lightning has its perks ....

common on the metal and air lists:

Conduit Rod: +1 CL for electricity spells , Shocking Robe: +1 CL for electricity spells, Orange Prism Ioun Stone: +1 caster level, Yuelral's Blessing (Wizard arcane discovery): +1 CL for "spells that appear on both the wizard and druid spell lists (that's a fair few electric spells).

[I'm Hiding In Your Closet]

Can anyone think of metamagic feats that would go well with the Void school? Some levels of the Void school lack the sorts of spells that one would find routinely useful (specifically, 4th, 5th, and 7th levels), but one could circumvent that by occupying the school slots at those levels with metamagic versions of lower-level Void school spells. Any thoughts?

[Titania, the Summer Queen]

Void is absolutely amazing especially if your working with a witch.

Say your level 10. Your first level ability can drop their saves or whatever without a save by 5. Your enemy just got hit by a cackiling misfortune and now has to roll 2 times for everything and take lower. Or by yourself get a familiar that can use wands and have familiar use a wand of enervation. Now that wizard who has bad fort saves to begin with, now has less levels and lost there most powerful plspells. Your familiar carries wands for each of the saves. Hold person for will, and something else for your reflex.

[Titania, the Summer Queen]

Quickened save or die spells are your friend for the void as well.

[blackbloodtroll]

Orientals?

[I'm Hiding In Your Closet]

Void's 4th, 5th, and 7th-level spells (7th especially, where 2 of the 3 spells given require expensive material components) seem especially situational - I don't have a problem with situational, but the situationalism, combined with lack of breadth, combined with "you have a bonus slot per day of every spell level that you have to put one of these spells in" is a little more troublesome. Any suggestions for ameliorating this issue?

[I'm Hiding In Your Closet]

*BUMP*

[I'm Hiding In Your Closet]

Anyone? Anything?

[I'm Hiding In Your Closet]

*Final BUMP*

[Cornielius]

i hadn't looked at void before, but a glance gave me one idea.

a dwarf with the steel soul feat and the void benefit would be nearly immune to spell and spell-like abilities with saves.

+ 6 versus, increasing by +1 per 5 levels, and i think there's a dwarven racial trait for another +1?

sound like a low wisdom, stubborn and very tough wizard.