I hit a problem using the Medusa Mask yesterday.
I had cornered the Villain, he was the only card left and in the only open location. Sadly he kept beating me up badly, I would cure and come back for another go .... then I found the mask.
Right, now you're stone I think..... I explore again while he was helpless and of course there were no cards in the location so I was able to close it permanently.
At the end of the turn the villain returns to the top of the pile.
So I explore again, encounter him and lose again, but he doesn't have anywhere to run to as all the locations are closed.
I win, but ..... it doesn't feel right.
Sounds like a need for a FAQ adjustment and ruling.
One would think that you can't actually win without defeating the villain, as it doesn't simply flop over dead because it doesn't have a location to run to when it actually wins, but the rules say you win if this happens.
If the Villain Has Nowhere to Escape to, You Win!
So it does seem kinda anti-climactic.
It doesn't say "If you defeat the villain and it has nowhere to escape to, you win." so that implies that regardless of whether you defeated the villain or not, if it has nowhere to escape, you win.
One might think placing the villain back into the closed location should re-open it, but that seems like it'd make the card a lot wordier and start doing funky things with locations that do special things upon closing, like the general store.
Perhaps the card should say "When you encounter a non-villain monster, you may..." or "When you encounter a monster that is not a villain or henchman, you may..."
Or, like most of the cards in the game, it's exactly as the designers intended it. You just got lucky with the mask in your hand at the right time and the game played out in such a way as to allow you to close all the other locations before ending up with the villain there as a lone card, and poof, you turned it to stone, locked all the doors so it couldn't escape, and so it surrendered.
It's hard to tell; maybe one of the team will pop in and grace us with their words, because this does sound like quite a cheapy way to win if you manage to pull it off, but it also seems like it should be a very semi-rare circumstance, but not ultra-rare, as it only requires that a group have closed at least 2 locations and have everyone available to temp-close the rest (if any), and the villain be the lone card in the other location.
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You haven't defeated the Villain, so the rule "If you have defeated the Villain and there are no open locations for him to go to, then you win." wouldn't count.
You can have closed locations with cards in them and you can still explore cards at closed locations [i.e.General Store]. Therefore the Villain goes back onto that location as the only card in a close location.
Now, if in closing the location you had to put cards there, the order would be put the cards in the location, and then at your end of your turn the Mask would return the Villain to the top of that pile.
(Note that if you did not defeat the villain, there is always at least one open location: the one in which it was just encountered.)
You haven't met the condition for closing the location, because there's still a card in the deck. It's just "phased out" for the moment, but it'll be right back, and the deck knows it. So you can't even close the location.
Thanks for the replies.
Winning using the mask does seem wrong and I agree with your ruling Mike, however the rules as written don't make that clear so it might be worth considering an amendment to either the rules or the Medusa Mask.
The current (updated pdf) rules state.
Page 8
Close a Location: If your character is at a location that has no cards
remaining and has not been closed, at this time you may make one
attempt to close it (see Closing a Location on page 13).
Page 18
If the Villain Has Nowhere to Escape to, You Win!
An errata to the Medusa Mask along the lines of adding the following to the end of the current text block would clear things up.
"You may not permanently close this location during your turn"
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Page 18
If the Villain Has Nowhere to Escape to, You Win!An errata to the Medusa Mask along the lines of adding the following to the end of the current text block would clear things up.
"You may not permanently close this location during your turn"
And as I already pointed out, you have not met the requirements to even get to this point in the rules. You have not DEFEATED the Villain. You have only put them to the side temporary. There is no need for errata.
And as I already pointed out, you have not met the requirements to even get to this point in the rules. You have not DEFEATED the Villain. You have only put them to the side temporary. There is no need for errata.Page 18
If the Villain Has Nowhere to Escape to, You Win!An errata to the Medusa Mask along the lines of adding the following to the end of the current text block would clear things up.
"You may not permanently close this location during your turn"
I have double checked the rules and I'm failing to find this rule you are referring to - any chance you can enlighten me please?
Page 17
Unlike monsters and henchmen, villains don’t just need to be
defeated—they also need to be cornered, meaning you need to ensure
there are no open locations for them to escape to.
Perhaps this message above will help? This says the villain needs to be defeated AND cornered.
Page 17
Unlike monsters and henchmen, villains don’t just need to be
defeated—they also need to be cornered, meaning you need to ensure
there are no open locations for them to escape to.Perhaps this message above will help? This says the villain needs to be defeated AND cornered.
Thanks - that does help.
The rules on page 18 that detail the steps when encountering the villain don't expect you to have found a way to have closed the location where the villain is, so you end up having one rule saying you have won if the villain has nowhere to hide and another saying you need to have defeated him and cornered him.This issue is probably moot because, as Mike says, the location deck knows it is not empty so it can't be closed. I had interpreted the situation differently as it wasn't obvious to me that the card on the Medusa mask was still considered to be in the location deck. As far as I was concerned, the location deck was empty and the location could then be closed.
My intention was to find out if I had
a) Misplayed it
b) Misinterpreted the rules
c) Found a problem that needed fixing in the rules/errata
I'm happy to leave it with the designers to decide if anything needs to change. They can make the final call as to whether those rules are open to interpretation and if an amendment would make the rules clearer and make the product better.
Thanks - that does help.
The rules on page 18 that detail the steps when encountering the villain don't expect you to have found a way to have closed the location where the villain is, so you end up having one rule saying you have won if the villain has nowhere to hide and another saying you need to have defeated him and cornered him.This issue is probably moot because, as Mike says, the location deck knows it is not empty so it can't be closed. I had interpreted the situation differently as it wasn't obvious to me that the card on the Medusa mask was still considered to be in the location deck. As far as I was concerned, the location deck was empty and the location could then be closed.
My intention was to find out if I had
a) Misplayed it
b) Misinterpreted the rules
c) Found a problem that needed fixing in the rules/errataI'm happy to leave it with the designers to decide if anything needs to change. They can make the final call as to whether those rules are open to interpretation and if an amendment would make the rules clearer and make the product better.
No problem. Glad we could all provide some help.
Just one final bit of information: The beauty of being able to play at home and with your friends is that mistakes can happen, and it's ok. Just remember next time to change what you do. Not all the rules and conditions are perfect, so sometimes you might have to wing it in a way that makes sense and that is fair. I don't exactly recall where I saw the message, but in the end the Game Designers really want you to have fun with the game. Granted, they want to make it as clear and easy to understand as possible, but they really just want you to have fun.
Game on! =)