My campaign world has consolidated most of the shops that sell magic items into a worldwide spellcaster's consortium and if you have the gold, and know who to talk to, you can pretty much get anything you want from any shopkeeper, collector or broker who has access to the consortium's magic item inventory.While that makes logical sense, I cannot express how much I abhor this development. I would run screaming from the table, with an urge to bathe, vomit or both.
(That, of course, is personal preference. Your campaign may well be a brilliant one.)
You probably wouldn't even realize it until you had played in my world for months, if not years, Jaelithe. And if you were then rendered vomitous by the discovery that the world worked that way, you would be welcome to leave.
The existence of the consortium is not part of the campaign world's player's guide Jaelithe.
You know, I could play in a no magic world or a high magic world or any world in between. I play to explore heroic stories with characters I like to role play.
It always amazes me how many things, LITTLE THINGS people on these boards claim is a deal-breaker for them to play in a campaign.
Seriously, if you're that dang picky, you probably won't fit in my group anyway. Not for this specific reason, just in general.
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LazarX, I dunno, maybe so. But how high magic "evolves" can be controlled by a sufficiently determined and powerful group of spellcasters who want to maintain their power.
In my own campaign world magic absolutely fills some of the niches that technology fills in our own world. Permanent "light" spells are commonplace in major cities. Magic items range from minor trinkets that do things like provide endless ink to a stylus all the way to great pumping stations that drive the irrigation of the vast areas of farmland.
Sometimes my players are amused by magical items that exist in my world. A typical country general store, for example, might have a "plow of stone avoidance" or a "bridle of horse control". Such things are useful to people with money. Your typical landed gentry is much more likely to buy a magical trinket that makes it safer for his children to ride a horse than to buy a magical weapon. The market reflects this.
Powerful magic is more rare, but it can be found. And by the time a PC is at a level that they are thinking about a +5 Holy Avenger, they have almost certainly made the connections necessary to figure out how to find one. If they care to pay the cost.
Sure, that's not "Lord of the Rings" style magic. But it's Pathfinder style magic.
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The existence of the consortium is not part of the campaign world's player's guide Jaelithe.But knowing how you handle the distribution and frequency of magic items would be a question I'd require you to answer before play began, Adamantine Dragon ... and rightly so. If you refused to do so, I'd consider that sufficient reason to politely move on.
You know, I could play in a no magic world or a high magic world or any world in between. I play to explore heroic stories with characters I like to role play.So do I ... but in addition in a world I don't find too objectionable on certain grounds—a position every player has, even though what is found acceptable varies from person to person.
It always amazes me how many things, LITTLE THINGS people on these boards claim is a deal-breaker for them to play in a campaign.Respectfully, you're not the arbiter of what's "little" for others.
Seriously, if you're that dang picky, you probably won't fit in my group anyway. Not for this specific reason, just in general.And seriously, if you're that dang sensitive, when I already acknowledged that you may well run a brilliant campaign, I wouldn't be lobbying for a spot in your group—for this specific reason, if not in general.
I feel as though players who have a particular 'requirement' on how the DM runs the game world and has demands on how much wealth and/or the specific items available to him are players that I do not enjoy gaming with.
To be fair, my first experience in the game is from having the most tyrannical DM in the history of the universe, banning feats and combos from the Player's Handbook because he felt every thing was overpowered, since I played my characters to be powerhouses and maxed out DPR (mostly because no one else at the table did and if I hadn't there would be many a TPK). I'm used to having so little, and to being shafted for things like not being able to show up for two sessions because of work and now in his game because I have since moved cities I now have to play a character 4 levels behind everyone else with NPC wealth. And I still have fun.
I think any player should be willing to play in any kind of game setting, because all of them bring something unique to the experience. High wealth, low wealth, high stats, low stats, high magic, low magic, undead heavy, evil characters, random adventures, railroad story, puzzle crawls, dungeon gauntlets, combat based, RP based, world immersing, all of these styles provide some serious gaming to be had and all of them are fun.
If you as the player only like one kind of game setting then that is on you, and the availability of magic items is only one facet of a very deep game with plenty of experiences and fun to be had.
Back to the OP, some games simply do not revolve around the power level of the PCs and magic items are not all ubergod artifacts. Such games can be just as fun as your weekly reenactment of LOTR. In certain games, the 'Magic Shop' is there because something has to be there to get the game moving on, but it really has no effect on the actual game.
If the magic shop is the center of the game, that is a completely different style, and if you make such a huge deal of it that it becomes the center of the game because you personally feel that's the way everyone should be playing the game, then I feel sorry for you because I have fun regardless of how much MIC is going on in game, since I like to hang out, have a few, and roll some dice with mah bros. After all isn't that what this game is about?
Ok, can we get away from the magic shop thing and discuss the more important issue of whether or not PCs have access to WBL appropriate items in your campaigns regardless of how they get them. (Quest rewards, conveniently in treasure hoards, etc.)
As far as I can make out you are opposed to players having WBL appropriate items yes Jaelithe, strayshift, LazarX, and master_marshmallow?
Rather then discussing whether or not you dislike magic marts could you discuss why you dislike PCs having level appropriate gear (or correct me if that isn't your position)?
Ok, can we get away from the magic shop thing and discuss the more important issue of whether or not PCs have access to WBL appropriate items in your campaigns regardless of how they get them. (Quest rewards, conveniently in treasure hoards, etc.)
As far as I can make out you are opposed to players having WBL appropriate items yes Jaelithe, strayshift, LazarX, and master_marshmallow?
Rather then discussing whether or not you dislike magic marts could you discuss why you dislike PCs having level appropriate gear (or correct me if that isn't your position)?
That was never my position here. I am saying that Magic Marts exist as a means for the DM to facilitate the need for the players to get their appropriate items without having to invest time (in game or out) in fleshing out quests and different shops/npcs to obtain those items. That style of game usually has a much more pressing story that going on shopping tangents takes away from.
The point of magic marts is that it eliminates any worry the PCs have in getting those important items. It is a game play style choice that players who theorycraft a lot prefer because they basically always have access to their build choice magic items.
Ok, can we get away from the magic shop thing and discuss the more important issue of whether or not PCs have access to WBL appropriate items in your campaigns regardless of how they get them. (Quest rewards, conveniently in treasure hoards, etc.)
As far as I can make out you are opposed to players having WBL appropriate items yes Jaelithe, strayshift, LazarX, and master_marshmallow?
Rather then discussing whether or not you dislike magic marts could you discuss why you dislike PCs having level appropriate gear (or correct me if that isn't your position)?
That was never my position here. I am saying that Magic Marts exist as a means for the DM to facilitate the need for the players to get their appropriate items without having to invest time (in game or out) in fleshing out quests and different shops/npcs to obtain those items. That style of game usually has a much more pressing story that going on shopping tangents takes away from.
The point of magic marts is that it eliminates any worry the PCs have in getting those important items. It is a game play style choice that players who theorycraft a lot prefer because they basically always have access to their build choice magic items.
Ok, this still sounds like your the side of PCs should not have access to level appropriate items, unless they are theorycrafters. Could you please clarify your own position as I'm still uncertain what it from this post.
Ok, this still sounds like your the side of PCs should not have access to level appropriate items, unless they are theorycrafters. Could you please clarify your own position as I'm still uncertain what it from this post.Ok, can we get away from the magic shop thing and discuss the more important issue of whether or not PCs have access to WBL appropriate items in your campaigns regardless of how they get them. (Quest rewards, conveniently in treasure hoards, etc.)
As far as I can make out you are opposed to players having WBL appropriate items yes Jaelithe, strayshift, LazarX, and master_marshmallow?
Rather then discussing whether or not you dislike magic marts could you discuss why you dislike PCs having level appropriate gear (or correct me if that isn't your position)?
That was never my position here. I am saying that Magic Marts exist as a means for the DM to facilitate the need for the players to get their appropriate items without having to invest time (in game or out) in fleshing out quests and different shops/npcs to obtain those items. That style of game usually has a much more pressing story that going on shopping tangents takes away from.
The point of magic marts is that it eliminates any worry the PCs have in getting those important items. It is a game play style choice that players who theorycraft a lot prefer because they basically always have access to their build choice magic items.
My position? How do you mean? I have played in low magic games where we have to fight the DM tooth and nail for +1 weapons, and I have also played in ridiculous games where we didn't even have to bother going to a store in game we could just convert money into magic items straight out of the book and I had fun with both of them.
The fact that you think you need to take a side is the real problem here me thinks.
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Ok, can we get away from the magic shop thing and discuss the more important issue of whether or not PCs have access to WBL appropriate items in your campaigns regardless of how they get them. (Quest rewards, conveniently in treasure hoards, etc.)
As far as I can make out you are opposed to players having WBL appropriate items yes Jaelithe, strayshift, LazarX, and master_marshmallow?
Rather then discussing whether or not you dislike magic marts could you discuss why you dislike PCs having level appropriate gear (or correct me if that isn't your position)?
I'm not one of the ones you list, but I don't like the PF base assumption of lots of magic items purely on aesthetic grounds. The fantay stories I've read and enjoyed are predominantly about the characters triumphs with access to only very rare, very powerful magic items. As a consequence, those are the stories I like to tell.
I think there'd be a concomitant adjustment to the foes a PC would be expected to meet at various levels, were one concerned with preserving balance.
LOL, Jaelithe, you are the one putting conditions on how you have to have fun. Not me. I'm the one saying I could deal with any range of magical item distribution. That's because I game to have fun with my friends, not to impose my idea of what constitutes "verisimilitude" on them. Or to miss out on fun campaigns because there's a "Ye Olde Magic Shoppe" on main street.
The reality is that if you were to game with me, you would be the first to abandon the game for any reason other than you had to move away or your significant other invoked demon-worship accusations on you.
I have to say if you came to me at the start of a campaign and started demanding that you understand the background and rationale for the distribution of magic items before you would play the game, I'd politely invite you to find another game that met your expectations and would consider myself lucky to have avoided the likely disagreements gaming with you would entail.
But have fun anyway!
Ok, this still sounds like your the side of PCs should not have access to level appropriate items, unless they are theorycrafters. Could you please clarify your own position as I'm still uncertain what it from this post.Ok, can we get away from the magic shop thing and discuss the more important issue of whether or not PCs have access to WBL appropriate items in your campaigns regardless of how they get them. (Quest rewards, conveniently in treasure hoards, etc.)
As far as I can make out you are opposed to players having WBL appropriate items yes Jaelithe, strayshift, LazarX, and master_marshmallow?
Rather then discussing whether or not you dislike magic marts could you discuss why you dislike PCs having level appropriate gear (or correct me if that isn't your position)?
That was never my position here. I am saying that Magic Marts exist as a means for the DM to facilitate the need for the players to get their appropriate items without having to invest time (in game or out) in fleshing out quests and different shops/npcs to obtain those items. That style of game usually has a much more pressing story that going on shopping tangents takes away from.
The point of magic marts is that it eliminates any worry the PCs have in getting those important items. It is a game play style choice that players who theorycraft a lot prefer because they basically always have access to their build choice magic items.
My position? How do you mean? I have played in low magic games where we have to fight the DM tooth and nail for +1 weapons, and I have also played in ridiculous games where we didn't even have to bother going to a store in game we could just convert money into magic items straight out of the book and I had fun with both of them.
The fact that you think you need to take a side is the real problem here me thinks.
I don't see how determining whether people prefer to play with level appropriate items or not is taking a side. You must have some preference no?
I don't see how determining whether people prefer to play with level appropriate items or not is taking a side. You must have some preference no?
I can truly say that I do not truly have a preference when playing, since each game is unique.
Myself I haven't played in months since I GM pretty much exclusively, and I do so in a very lax sense when the number crunching rules are concerned.
I do not use CR nor do I use WBL mostly because I run my game through my local game shop and have a constantly changing cast of characters that makes tailoring encounters to a specific group of characters impossible.
Instead, I level the characters based on the story, and I give out wealth and have the characters obtain new items based on what I think is appropriate power level in game. My players have been enjoying it, thought their own tangents have been keeping the story stretched longer than I'd like, but that's what happens when everyone wants to be CN.
I do not use a Magic Mart because my players enjoy the sandbox style of gaming where they interact with NPCs and have things to do out of combat, and we've spent a lot of time looking through and implementing Ultimate Campaign. Often we only get through one combat per week.
Magic Items in my game world are integral to the story, as the ability to make them and obtaining the reagents for MIC is a major plot point that my players enjoy playing through because they get rewarded with the things that they would want to buy at the 'magic mart' anyway.
That said, I don't hold anything against DMs who include magic marts because they don't want to waste time on shopping in game because they have a story to tell and a game to play through and lets face it, shopping can get pretty boring for the other people sitting at the table.
In other words, players who demand a high level of control of magic access.Ok, can we get away from the magic shop thing and discuss the more important issue of whether or not PCs have access to WBL appropriate items in your campaigns regardless of how they get them. (Quest rewards, conveniently in treasure hoards, etc.)
As far as I can make out you are opposed to players having WBL appropriate items yes Jaelithe, strayshift, LazarX, and master_marshmallow?
Rather then discussing whether or not you dislike magic marts could you discuss why you dislike PCs having level appropriate gear (or correct me if that isn't your position)?
That was never my position here. I am saying that Magic Marts exist as a means for the DM to facilitate the need for the players to get their appropriate items without having to invest time (in game or out) in fleshing out quests and different shops/npcs to obtain those items. That style of game usually has a much more pressing story that going on shopping tangents takes away from.
The point of magic marts is that it eliminates any worry the PCs have in getting those important items. It is a game play style choice that players who theorycraft a lot prefer because they basically always have access to their build choice magic items.
More or less, but again that's not necessarily a bad thing for those who prefer a metagame like experience.
I've been in games where the in game world was so metagamed that the fundamentals of playing the game and particular items were simply 'pseudo banned' like animated shields because the DM based the world on a metagame perspective. When I walked into that game they told me to make the most powerful character I could.But that's okay too, because the game can still be fun.
Ok, this still sounds like your the side of PCs should not have access to level appropriate items, unless they are theorycrafters. Could you please clarify your own position as I'm still uncertain what it from this post."Level appropriate" is a subjective term. For what's "level appropriate" is going to vary with the campaign. The book describe what is roughly a "generic" approach for beginning DM's. But the rules exist to kick it quite a few different ways from that path.
And again I think that you're asking the wrong question. I don't think anyone is going to argue that he PC's should be kept woefully unprepared for every scenario. The real question is who controls the introduction of magic in the game... is it primarily the DM who controls magic by treasure introduction? or primarily the PC's who buy magic to order.... Or are you willing to consider a spectrum between the two extremes.
I use the rules out of the book which determine what the level appropriate amount of wealth a player should have and for determining what magic items are available. Thus while the GM controls what treasure is given as loot it the players who ultimately decide how to spend their resources. If playing Pathfinder a PC should be able to expect wealth by level appropriate resources to purchase items of their choice.
Ok, can we get away from the magic shop thing and discuss the more important issue of whether or not PCs have access to WBL appropriate items in your campaigns regardless of how they get them. (Quest rewards, conveniently in treasure hoards, etc.)
As far as I can make out you are opposed to players having WBL appropriate items yes Jaelithe, strayshift, LazarX, and master_marshmallow?
Rather then discussing whether or not you dislike magic marts could you discuss why you dislike PCs having level appropriate gear (or correct me if that isn't your position)?
That was never my position here. I am saying that Magic Marts exist as a means for the DM to facilitate the need for the players to get their appropriate items without having to invest time (in game or out) in fleshing out quests and different shops/npcs to obtain those items. That style of game usually has a much more pressing story that going on shopping tangents takes away from.
The point of magic marts is that it eliminates any worry the PCs have in getting those important items. It is a game play style choice that players who theorycraft a lot prefer because they basically always have access to their build choice magic items.
I theorycraft, but I never get every item I want. Unexpected expenses pop up. Something will happen that will make another item a priority. I may not have time to get the time due to time constraints..etc...One think I do is save money until I can get the item I want, assuming it is likely to be in the city I am in.
I do prefer magicmart(not really like a magical walmart), because it makes things easier. If I was in a game where I had less choice over what I could get I would just take crafting feats. The only time I have taken them otherwise was when I had an animal companion that I needed to keep outfitted.
Ok, can we get away from the magic shop thing and discuss the more important issue of whether or not PCs have access to WBL appropriate items in your campaigns regardless of how they get them. (Quest rewards, conveniently in treasure hoards, etc.)
As far as I can make out you are opposed to players having WBL appropriate items yes Jaelithe, strayshift, LazarX, and master_marshmallow?
Rather then discussing whether or not you dislike magic marts could you discuss why you dislike PCs having level appropriate gear (or correct me if that isn't your position)?
That was never my position here. I am saying that Magic Marts exist as a means for the DM to facilitate the need for the players to get their appropriate items without having to invest time (in game or out) in fleshing out quests and different shops/npcs to obtain those items. That style of game usually has a much more pressing story that going on shopping tangents takes away from.
The point of magic marts is that it eliminates any worry the PCs have in getting those important items. It is a game play style choice that players who theorycraft a lot prefer because they basically always have access to their build choice magic items.
I theorycraft, but I never get every item I want. Unexpected expenses pop up. Something will happen that will make another item a priority. I may not have time to get the time due to time constraints..etc...One think I do is save money until I can get the item I want, assuming it is likely to be in the city I am in.
I do prefer magicmart(not really like a magical walmart), because it makes things easier. If I was in a game where I had less choice over what I could get I would just take crafting feats. The only time I have taken them otherwise was when I had an animal companion that I needed to keep outfitted.
magic mart is one of the few things lessening the gap between martial characters and casters. removing magic mart penalizes martial characters even more, because they won't be able to buy their build specific items, that backup weapon, or whatever.
a smart level 10+ martial should keep 5 backup weapons minimum, at least 3 of which, should be +1 or better. sunder happens, and it is very irksome indeed.
a smart level 10+ martial should keep 5 backup weapons minimum, at least 3 of which, should be +1 or better. sunder happens, and it is very irksome indeed.
Why 5?
dagger=piercing/slashing
main weapon is normally bludgeoning or slashing
Then choose a weapon to cover what the main weapon does not cover.
Maybe a backup of the main weapon if you have a lot of feats going to it.
a smart level 10+ martial should keep 5 backup weapons minimum, at least 3 of which, should be +1 or better. sunder happens, and it is very irksome indeed.Why 5?
dagger=piercing/slashing
main weapon is normally bludgeoning or slashing
Then choose a weapon to cover what the main weapon does not cover.
Maybe a backup of the main weapon if you have a lot of feats going to it.
Dagger =/Piercing/Slashing
Cestus = Bludgeoning/Slashing
Composite Bow = Ranged, good for most monstrous fliers
Polearm = Reach, both for enlargement scenarios, and for fighting huge and gargantuan foes
1hander and shield = Defense for when it's needed
other weapons chosen as desired
other good must have weapons include
Club, free bludgeoning weapon that can be used with 1 or 2 hands, can be thrown
sling, free, can fire pebbles for free, or can fire alchemical goods farther than normal. poor man's composite bow
2+ backups of a weapon you invested many feats in the mastery of
We've but a few "magical marts" in our games -- usually only in larger cities where such an accumulation might occur. As a GM, and really as a player, I dislike the idea that every hamlet, thorp and tiny town has XdY of magical items sitting around for the players to pick and choose from. It is why I tend to chuckle quietly to myself when I see the theorycrafted builds that assume that you'll always have access to every item on your list just when you want it; it isn't a style we tend to play towards.
Magic shops are fine in plenty of campaigns and impractical in others. It's always been that way and probably always will be.
For the latter, I've considered simply housing Master Craftsman to allow magic item crafting with any Craft or relevant Profession skill the player might have, removing the crafting feats entirely along with Spellcraft's "make anything" status, lifting the level restrictions on item types such as staves and rings, and tossing magic shops out the window.
Parties would get reasonable WBL treasure during the campaign but still have the ability to somewhat customize their gear according to the skills that fit their character. Characters that didn't want to craft or dumped Int wouldn't need to take the MC feat or spend skill points on such feats. Magic items that aren't useful could be sold when appropriate or given to cohorts, followers, allies or family members, or bartered for other items in the event that the party comes across someone willing to part with such an item. It also neatly deals with the "Craft Wondrous Items über Alles" problem by removing categorization entirely.
Well, it's a thought anyway, and not completely explored yet. For one thing, it ignores the in-game economic questions entirely. That doesn't bother me much; the whole Tippyverse exercise prompted me to avoid gazing into that particular abyss.
I usually introduce the characters to a magic crafter npc that they can go to with their requests. Although in one game, the npc did run a literal magic shop. It was the first of it's kind in the setting. With the generous financial support of the characters, a second branch was opened on another continent. The second branch specialized in more "everyday" magic items. Useful household or personal cantrip level stuff.
Whether it's a stodgy wizard in a hidden tower, or a fresh faced tiefling in a new storefront, I find it doesn't hurt, and indeed helps, the flow of my games to have the option of buying & selling magic gear.
The very idea that one can simply plunk down cash for magic items is arguably inherently antithetical to the spirit of fantasy literature, which is why so many object to it, and in their opinion rightly so.
It's one of the qualities that assure I'll never play in a Pathfinder Society game, because I'd be unable to avoid expressing my distaste at the relative ease with which players and characters acquire that which they want.
Actually, to be fair PFS has some strong limits on what magic items are available. No item crafting feats are allowed, nor are any custom items. Only low-level items are "always available" and you have to earn the right to buy better stuff, either by finding it in an adventure or by reaching a certain amount of "fame" (which is more or less tied to XP). This guarantees that unless you found it in-game you won't ever be able to dedicate too much of your wealth to any specific item.
Personally I think straight published-adventure-based games should allow magic marts since you basically don't want to spend time on that sort of thing. The GM should tell people what kind of things can be bought in the town (usually it will be a gp limit) and they submit their shopping lists and move on. Let's get on with the actual game, which was written assuming players have gear by WBL.
On the other hand, in sandbox games you can make a "game" out of a lot of things including finding items, so by all means adjust the world as you see fit. I actually do prefer this type of game and to me the high availability of magic items should have a lot more ramifications than are shown in most game universes.
But I like playing published adventures too and the magic items don't bother me in those since you just want to get on with playing the module.
Peet
The above sounds eminently reasonable.
How is it any different from what I said?
"Level appropriate" is a subjective term. For what's "level appropriate" is going to vary with the campaign. The book describe what is roughly a "generic" approach for beginning DM's. But the rules exist to kick it quite a few different ways from that path.
Ok, this still sounds like your the side of PCs should not have access to level appropriate items, unless they are theorycrafters. Could you please clarify your own position as I'm still uncertain what it from this post.
Which rules in particular would those be?
Wow, all this talk has me wondering if I shouldnt have stuck with my Hyborian Campaign where the setting doesnt even entertain such notions. I run a pretty low magic game certainly, I prefer them, but if the very mechanics of Pathfinder REQUIRE this sort of dynamic, Im going to be doing a lot of adjusting along the way.
Perhaps he's referring to this one:
"The Most Important Rule
LazarX's comment strongly implies that there's a useful "To adjust your campaign for low-wealth play, do X, Y, and Z to avoid frequent TPKs" guideline somewhere. Rule 0 is all well and good, but referring to it in this context is like pointing someone toward a racing river and telling them "Most people cross the bridge to get across, but there are other ways so it's your call." While this is true, the person won't be thanking you when his canoe breaks up on the hidden rocks just below the river's surface, and he finds himself drowning.
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Your "magic mart", whatever form it takes, doesn't have to have every item on sale and feed a player's desire for a certain item for their build. It only has to facilitate the buying and selling of magic items, and it could well only have a dozen or so random items on hand at any given time which tend to sit on the shelf for only a few hours before finding a buyer.
Something that should be pointed out is that prior to the nineteenth century, you bought goods in three ways:
1) You went to a market hoping to find what you wanted and haggle a price for it;
2) You find a craftsman who can make it, commission it, and haggle for the price;
3) You find someone with the item you are looking for, and see if you can persuade them to sell it, and haggle for a price for it.
The whole idea of selling goods for a fixed priced didn't exist before the nineteenth century, because before then goods were not, with a few rare exceptions, manufactured to any kind of standard that you could attach a fixed price too. Cannons and muskets were exceptions to this rule, but they were seldom bought by individuals - usually they were bought in large numbers by governments to arm army and navy.
Golarian is not an industrial age world (unlike Eberron I will add, which is industrial, but arcanely so), so you will not get standard goods at a standard price. The values of items in the CRB and other sources are guidelines so far as I am concerned. If the players want items that fall within the "value" of a settlement, it can be assumed that someone there can make the item as a commission. Likewise, it can be assumed there may be a buyer for items up to that value.
I agree that where such items can be made there will be a market for them...if there are buyers. With adventurers being rare (at least, successful ones should be), that leaves the nobility, so the kinds of things available will be the things the nobility want. To get into that circle of buyers, the PCs have to show that they the means to buy such items - that usually means dressing the part of wealthy patrons and flashing their cash at the very least (remember, knobs do not like slumming it with riff-raff, so if they are frequenting an elite bazaar YOU have to conform to THEIR expectations - the traders will not offend their regular customers just for a one-off sale).
As such...on the question of magic marts, I don't have them in my games. Even a "magic item shop" in a city I regard as a loose collection of brokers and craftsmen with their own elite bazaar. However, the name of the game is not "Traders & Crafters", the players may not want to descend into that level of detail in their gaming experience, so if they want to handle the buying and selling of items fast and loose at CRB prices without having to RP the haggling and searching, I'm cool with that.
Wow, all this talk has me wondering if I shouldnt have stuck with my Hyborian Campaign where the setting doesnt even entertain such notions. I run a pretty low magic game certainly, I prefer them, but if the very mechanics of Pathfinder REQUIRE this sort of dynamic, Im going to be doing a lot of adjusting along the way.
Yes, as I mentioned earlier, it's possible to run a low wealth/magic PF game, but you have to fight the system to do so. You either need a house rule (see the inherent bonuses that were discussed earlier), or you need enough experience to gauge your own 'challenge ratings.' (Which is the less than ideal solution, as it fundamentally changes combat dynamics regardless of how much experience you have.)