So, with limited time to play and a little bit more time to post, I've pretty much decided to focus my efforts on the two most extreme new classes insofar as my personal favor goes; I will work on my favorite (Bloodrager) to try to ensure that it gets all the awesome it deserves, and my LEAST favorite (Warpriest) in hopes that it gets enough awesome for me to want to play one.
What are YOUR plans for this playtest? While I'm primarily asking people with limited time, I'm happy to hear from folks with less restriction on their playtest-ability.
Thanks.
My plan is to schedule an extra session with my group sometime this month and play a 6th level session of a party of 6.
No point in testing level 1 as people can imagine level 1 encounters in their head.
3 is a good point because classes differentiate.
6-8 to see how the action economy of a class effects full attacks and utility
11-15 for the same reason as 6-8 and because those levels are essentially "end game" for Pathfinder adventure paths.
Dragoon, those certainly sound like good "milestone" levels, where (without having to play through from 1-20) a group of seven folks can capture the "whole" concept of a class.
What do you plan as far as picking classes? I wonder because a new class alongside three classic classes should differ significantly from one amongst many ACG classes.
I'm not picking on you, I just happen to still be awake. I will likely "pick on" lots of people to get an idea of the depth of playtest being had. I really wonder, since many of the classes seem decent, but given the range of classes, especially considering the option of archetypes, could make these hybrid classes seem irrelevant or "lost in the sauce."
I've admittedly mostly been picking through the class theories. However, I do try to run through five combat encounters at ECL 11 as a basic test of if a class can handle 'heroic' enemies. They are, in a random order (done twice: once with refresh between and once without):
- 16 vampire spawn attacking in waves of four in the ruins of a crypt
- Four Erinyes, fought in a newly-desecrated cathedral
- A stone golem, faced within the alchemical laboratory it guards
- A group of diabolical cultists encountered in the woodlands (Two level 8 fighters, a level 8 cleric, and a level 8 rogue)
- One white dragon (whichever age category is CR 11, I don't have time to look it up right now) confronted in its lair.
A single character against an encounter with CR = to their level is in for a hell of a fight (in theory) which they're not certified to live through and which should kick the crap out of them. In practice some of these fights are going to be much easier than others.
Thus far, worrisome things have manifested. Pre-revision Arcanist stomped face until the dragon (which he narrowly defeated). Brawler nearly died to the vampire spawn and go roflstomped on the other four. Swashbuckler drew the crap card with dragon on the first round, we'll see how she does.
Prince, those sound like excellent "test" encounters! Luck to you, I wish I had a group with which to test in that kind of manner. As is, I'll have to make due with a PFS group (not a bad thing, mind you, just less capable of setting levels to satisfy playtest curiosity).
Prince, those sound like excellent "test" encounters! Luck to you, I wish I had a group with which to test in that kind of manner. As is, I'll have to make due with a PFS group (not a bad thing, mind you, just less capable of setting levels to satisfy playtest curiosity).
What is this 'group' of which you speak? No, my friend, it's just me, some saved maps on Paint, and whatever free time I have in which I can't get ahold of my design lead or the Bossman to work on PoW stuff.
No idea why I bother doing it. I suppose I just need to keep my hand in. One of these days I'll get around to doing a 'traps and social encounters' battery for this kind of thing - those are in-game obstacles too!
Well, Prince, I'm sorry to hear that you don't have a group, but it sounds like you are doing some good, impartial work for the betterment of our hobby. Commendations.
Don't worry about the "why." I was overseas for a couple of years and little RPG opportunity outside of DLing 4E material and "speculation" building characters. Eventually I found a group who introduced me to PFRPG and I'm totally hooked. My statement stands, though; your test encounters seem like a good overall test of the strengths and weaknesses of builds and classes (I assume they would be good for playtesting races, too, but they don't really need a lot of help).
Dragoon, those certainly sound like good "milestone" levels, where (without having to play through from 1-20) a group of seven folks can capture the "whole" concept of a class.
What do you plan as far as picking classes? I wonder because a new class alongside three classic classes should differ significantly from one amongst many ACG classes.
I'm not picking on you, I just happen to still be awake. I will likely "pick on" lots of people to get an idea of the depth of playtest being had. I really wonder, since many of the classes seem decent, but given the range of classes, especially considering the option of archetypes, could make these hybrid classes seem irrelevant or "lost in the sauce."
Hmm good question.
Running three new classes and three classes of existing class/archetype combinations that could compete with ACG characters would be a good test.
I would want to test Slayer VS Ranger at level 11 both running two weapon fighting. See how sneak attack dice compare to an animal companion and spell casting (So far I've predicted that the animal companion and spell casting would be more useful in more situations, but playtest data is the only way to prove that)
Cleric VS Shaman because I've heard things about how strong shaman are.
Warpriest vs Inquisitor
Ninja/vivisectionist vs Investigator
Bloodrager vs barb (rage powers vs bloodline powers and are the spells helping?)
Brawler vs fighter/tactician fighter/lore warden fighter
I don't see Hunter as a class yet and some people are already doing testing on it and trying to get it buffed.
These are examples of comparisons I can use. Maybe run parties of 4 using different combos and seeing which classes fade in and out?
Well, Prince, I'm sorry to hear that you don't have a group, but it sounds like you are doing some good, impartial work for the betterment of our hobby. Commendations.
Don't worry about the "why." I was overseas for a couple of years and little RPG opportunity outside of DLing 4E material and "speculation" building characters. Eventually I found a group who introduced me to PFRPG and I'm totally hooked. My statement stands, though; your test encounters seem like a good overall test of the strengths and weaknesses of builds and classes (I assume they would be good for playtesting races, too, but they don't really need a lot of help).
You know, this has been a really interesting thing to think about for Pathfinder. Even with the buffs given to Races in General one's race is a very minor part of one's mechanical build; you can safely play almost any race with almost any class and be essentially workable. Yes, there's some ideas that are, shall we say, not great (Int penalty wizard yeah!) but they aren't, and this is important, nonfunctional. They work, you just have to work a little harder.
And then Pathfinder changed all of that with Favored Class Bonuses. Suddenly race is a big gigantic mechanical deal! It's REALLY important to test classes with multiple races!
...Buuuuuut we have no FCBs for these bad boys. None whatsoever. So I'm back in 3.5Land being able to run whatever I want (usually Human b/c Feat) as the base race for the class. Which is this weird feeling.
Weird that I kind of inspired that kind of thinking but didn't think of it myself! What kind of playtests are we running with ALL of the core races and their alternate abilities? How about the featured races? Uncommon? There are almost certainly some legal rules combinations that will be broken, while most will be mediocre, at best.
I hadn't seen you around, Prince, before the playtest, but you're a thinker!
Weird that I kind of inspired that kind of thinking but didn't think of it myself! What kind of playtests are we running with ALL of the core races and their alternate abilities? How about the featured races? Uncommon? There are almost certainly some legal rules combinations that will be broken, while most will be mediocre, at best.
I hadn't seen you around, Prince, before the playtest, but you're a thinker!
I can only attempt to give the sort of feedback I'd like to receive, y'know?
There's other things I'd do if I had the free time and/or a magically-conjured second party to come up with specifics for me so that I don't ruin them with bias. Things like:
- The party is attending a royal ball. They're not there to talk to the king and queen; they need the support (and lances) of the Baron de Witcholm to hold the flank at Mothgarde while they seek and destroy the source of the enemy's power. The Baron is a prickly sort, but open to persuasion. How does [Class] help persuade him or at least not get the party thrown out of the ball?
- The party is going to need to pass through the territory of a bronze dragon on their way to deliver an artifact to the Temple of the Laughing Sisters. Negotiate passage with the dragon without ending in combat or letting slip that you have the artifact.
- The character enters a room that locks itself. Inside the room are 16 identical smoked glass spheres. One contains the magical key to get out, three contain loot, and the other 12 contain monsters. Survive and leave.
- An adamantine door, potentially trapped, stands between the party and Mirral the Lichdrow. Get the door open with a minimum of harm. Bonus points: don't tip the Lichdrow to your presence.
- A village is in the path of an impending natural disaster. Persuade the villagers to leave and get them to the minimum safe distance.
- Krystal Brightblood has taken hostages and things are not pretty; she's got a dozen children pinned under cursed blades that will condemn their souls to Hell if her demands are not met. Rescue the children.