Fighter skills?

[Thank Dog]

I'm hoping to get into a long term PF game with my current group. If it all works out, then I think I'll probably end up playing a fighter concept I have. The idea behind the character is to be well rounded rather than focusing purely on combat damage. The only problem I'm having is in choosing skills past the first few levels.

Perception is going to be a set choice every level (Eyes and Ears of the City), leaving two other skill points to utilise every level. Past that I don't really know what to do with the skill points.

His build is a human two-handed weapon archetype. He's lawful neutral as the alignment suits the personality I have in mind for him so no barbarian multi-classing but I'm not averse to other classes or prestige classes to open up skills a bit more.

He has Heart of the Wilderness which gives him a small amount of Survival skill. I don't mind the idea of putting points into survival but at the same time, I'm not sure if doing that for twenty levels is such a great idea.

His feat build to 10th-level: Cleave, Critical Focus, Improved Initiative, Iron Will, Lightning Reflexes, Combat Reflexes, Improved Critical (greatsword), Power Attack, Furious Focus, Weapon Focus (greatsword), Weapon Specialisation (greatsword). I'm open to changing that up a bit but I quite like him having the Improved Initiative, Iron Will and Lightning Reflexes so would prefer not to change them out.

Starting stats are: Str 18, Dex 15, Con 14, Int 12, Wis 14, Cha 7. Bump Dex at 4th and from then on everything to Strength. I'd prefer not to change that up either as it really suits the personality of the character I envisage playing. He's brash, rude, but at the same time very loyal to his friends. He's not afraid to take the lead but equally not afraid to submit to leadership. He's a team-player, first and foremost, with a military mindset that is deeply rooted in the camaraderie and strength of the brother beside you mentality.

Mainly I just don't know what to do with his skills because everything other than Perception seems kinda pointless or redundant. Dungeoneering and Survival whilst not bad, won't do much for him when considering the other party members will outpace him on both very quickly. And by the time swimming or climbing become remotely able to be of any benefit due to their bonus versus his armour penalty, they're made redundant by magic. Intimidate would be good but with the low Charisma, kinda blows.

I considered taking Focused Study and putting it into Perception at 1st-level but by 8th-level, what other use would there be for it? And I'm not sure it's worth sacrificing the feat at 1st either, especially when his Perception will be fairly decent without it.

Oh, and while I'm at it, is the human favoured class benefit, "Bonus CMD" really worth it above the extra hit point?

[Rynjin]

Focused Study is actually pretty neat for skill intensive builds, and you can do Intimidate just fine if you grab Intimidating Prowess (add Str to Intimidate as well as Cha). With the +3-+6 from Skill Focus and Cornugon Smash you could be Intimidating everything up in hurr.

[MrSin]

You might consider taking Fast Study > Improvisation.

Focused study is pretty cool I think. You always have something you need to boost. If you plan to take skill focus even once its a really good trade.

[Nicos]

Thank Dog wrote:

Mainly I just don't know what to do with his skills because everything other than Perception seems kinda pointless or redundant. Dungeoneering and Survival whilst not bad, won't do much for him when considering the other party members will outpace him on both very quickly. And by the time swimming or climbing become remotely able to be of any benefit due to their bonus versus his armour penalty, they're made redundant by magic. Intimidate would be good but with the low Charisma, kinda blows.

I considered taking Focused Study and putting it into Perception at 1st-level but by 8th-level, what other use would there be for it? And I'm not sure it's worth sacrificing the feat at 1st either, especially when his Perception will be fairly decent without it.

Oh, and while I'm at it, is the human favoured class benefit, "Bonus CMD" really worth it above the extra hit point?

You still need/wants to devote a coupel of skill in swim and climb. You may do not need them everytime but when you need them you really need them.

As rynjin said a fighter can benefit a lot from intimidate/corgungon smash/intimidating prowess, when you reduce teh "to hit bonus" of your enemy you are improving the survivality of your entire group, for example.

About the CMD, I consider the extra bonus against trip and grapple to ve invaluable, as a Two hander you are pretty much screw is something grapple you.

[Thank Dog]

Rynjin wrote:

Focused Study is actually pretty neat for skill intensive builds, and you can do Intimidate just fine if you grab Intimidating Prowess (add Str to Intimidate as well as Cha). With the +3-+6 from Skill Focus and Cornugon Smash you could be Intimidating everything up in hurr.

I'm not too keen on using a feat just for that though. It seems like there are so many better feats out there that take priority, or at the very least my attention.

MrSin wrote:

You might consider taking Fast Study > Improvisation.

Focused study is pretty cool I think. You always have something you need to boost. If you plan to take skill focus even once its a really good trade.

Fast Learner? Then I have another skill point I don't know what to do with! :D And it'd also mean upping Int to 13 which is too painful to consider.

Nicos wrote:

As rynij stated a fighter can benefit a lot from intimidate/corgungonsmash/intimidating prowess, when you reduce teh "to hit bonus" of your enemy you are improving the survivality of your entire group, for example.

Hmm, I suppose Cornugon could be taken later and I could use Focused Study at 8th-level to bump Intimidate, making Intimidating Prowess also possibly worthwhile. Three feats seems like a big cost for it all though.

Thanks all for giving me some things to consider.

[Nicos]

Remember that you do not need to max out skills. You can help your teamates witht he "aid another option" and for that you do not need that much.

[Thank Dog]

Nicos wrote:

Remember that you do not need to max out skills. You can help your teamates witht he "aid anther option" and fot hat you do not need that much.

Admittedly I didn't think of that. That's very much in character for him to do, to.

[Mysterious Stranger]

Spread your skills around instead of maxing out a few. Perception is about the only skill I would max out. For the first few levels pick up class skill but after that you can put some in other skills. You will want to put a few points into climb and swim so that you are not completely unable to perform these skills. Acrobatics may also be worth investing a few points into just so that you can jump onto a low object like a table or a rock if needed. Stealth may also be worth putting a few points into.

Some of the skill checks are not that high, but having huge penalties mean you will need to roll very high to succeed. A knotted rope for example is only a DC 5 climb check. A heal check of 15 will allow you to stabilize a dying character, or stop a bleeding wound. For skills that are opposed rolls don’t worry about keeping up with the specialist just make sure you have a good chance against ordinary people. If your sense motive is higher than the average bluff for NPC you will be fine. By average NPC I mean the normal people on the street, not the charismatic rogue.

[Ciaran Barnes]

Nicos wrote:

You still need/wants to devote a coupel of skill in swim and climb. You may do not need them everytime but when you need them you really need them.

And as a fighter, your party will expect you to have skills like this covered, particularly at lower levels when there isn't a magical solution to every problem, and at higher levels for emergencies.

[Thank Dog]

Aside from grapple and trip, what are other common CMD's I could put points towards? I'm thinking that by the time I've gotten a +5 bonus that I'm about as maxed as I need to be on those defences, unless I'm mistaken?

Are sunder or dirty tricks common? Overrun? Bull Rush?

[Rynjin]

Overrun and Bull Rush are likely to rarely come up, and are rarely more than an annoyance when they do.

I have NEVER seen Dirty Trick used by anyone, PC or NPC.

Sunder comes up rarely, but when it does...you'll want as much resistance to it as possible. Same with Disarm.

Nothing worse than some guy jacking your weapon or, worse, smashing it into tiny pieces.

[peterrco]

I always wonder why Fighter builds seem to ignore Handle Animal, for an investment of 1 skill point, you get a skill that can be used as:

1. An extra attack, make your own flanking buddy.
2. Create a designated defender of a soft party member, *before* combat.
3. Driving, Carts, Wagons and Chariots (note that your ability to do this is not effected by armour penalties)
4. A Perform skill
5. A Track skill
6. A Carry/Move heavy objects skill, which with a little imagination can also be used to break things.
7. Fetch trick gives some interesting theft options. (Monkey 3gp, Ulimate Equipment)
8. Animals have scent. Use a rat (1 cp) or a Thrush (1 sp) and the seek skill to search out invisible or concealed creatures before entering an area.
9. An interesting option for a Fighter during "Campaign Play"

And these are just of the top of my head, but handle animal seems very cheap for just 1 skill point, even after dumping Charisma (IMHO A short sighted move which practically invites the GM to hose you in any non-combat interaction)

[Lemmy]

Since you have 4~5 skill points, I'd do the following:

Max Perception
Max Intimidate (Then get Intimidating Prowess and Cornugon Smash)
Max Knowledge (Dungeoneering)

Add a single skill to Climb and Swim. Use the rest on a interesting skill. I particularly love Linguistics. Getting extra languages is fun! :)

Your caster friends will love you for using Cornugon Smash (that -2 to all saves is like giving all casters Spell Focus and Improved Spell Focus for free! And the -2 to attack rolls will help to keep everyone alive!)

I'd take the human favored class option and use it on Trip and Grapple, since you'll be seeing those maneuvers far more often than all other maneuvers combined.

Disarm can be foiled by weapon cords and sunder rarely comes up. The bonus from Weapon Training alone should suffice. Still, always carry a backup weapon, preferably one made of Adamantine, so you can give a big middle finger to any sunder-happy enemies around.

Oh, and don't forget ranged weapons! (BTW, take Bows for your 2nd Weapon Training).