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And no spells. You have three levels of spells.
Of which the moment you use, you become just barely under the Fighter. In which case your spells would have been better off buffing your allies. And I was considering spells in that equation. With Divine Favor, the most obvious buff spell, it only puts him just under the Fighter.
And you wasted a turn casting it.
And the Fighter could have consumables.
And you can't have consumables why exactly?
So you buff your allies instead?
What is the issue?
The issue is if your delegated to buffing your allies, you may as well play a Cleric and be good at it, throwing down Blessing of Fervor at 8th level for instance.
Time is the issue. Most combats end in 2-4 round. The Warpriest needs approximately 2 buffs to keep up with the fighter and to make sure his efforts aren't a waste. The Fighter can use 1 turn to drink a potion then start fighting the second.
Compared to the Cleric who can round 1 Blessing of Fervor aiding the whole party, Round 2 helping fight or throwing down another area buff. The Warpriest doesn't even have any good area buff spells yet and most folks will tell you spending a turn to get a +1 to something in combat is not an efficient use of your turn.
The Bard gets both his buffs up in one round and helps his whole team.
The issue is we need this Warpriest to be effective in combat no matter the circumstances because WAR takes many forms and you need to be able to adapt or you will die. This means using a Ranged weapon when the Dragon strafe runs you, a dagger to cut your way free out of it's gut and a spear when fighting the Sahuagin underwater.
This is why pigeonholing the character concept into using a SINGLE weapon is idiotic. Heck, the God of WAR within Golarion recognizes that yeah, you'll need to use other weapons sometimes. I don't see him denying you your enhancements when you need to whip out a different weapon when the situation calls for it.
If we put so much focus on making your Favored Weapon the best and only good choice as the basis for the class we're going to see a lot of Warpriests looking the exact same. Every Warpriest of Gorum will use a Greatsword, every Warpriest of Iomedae will use a Longsword, and when they're forced to use a different weapon and they will as combat is an ever changing battlefield, they'll be dead weight. Literally.
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Not really. The Magus is going to have one weapon they take weapon focus, specialization, etc with. They aren't as good with other weapons, since they don't get bonuses with them.
The difference is that the Magus can use his arcane pool to improve any weapon he is holding. I don't care so much if the Warpriest only gets free weapon focus with his deity's favored weapon, I mean, c'mon, it's weapon focus. II do think, however, that it is a problem that a Warpriest can't use Sacred weapon with any other weapon. I can see the fluff reasons that they'd be more trained in the deity's favored weapon, but I don't see why they'd be forced to use it to receive the deity's blessing; it's not like clerics of Cayden can't cast bless weapon on rapiers or paladins of Abadar must use a bow for divine bond.
Also, I think it's silly that a Warpriest who doesn't worship a deity must pick a simple weapon as a focus weapon.
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Because gods grant bonuses arbitrarily, right? Thanks for letting me use this twice.Yeah, they really kind of do. They're called cleric spells, and the caster is under complete control of which ones he gets and when, where, and how they're used. I mean, really, man? That's the best you can come up with?
Yes.
And this class can cast cleric spells, regardless of what weapon they wield, can't they?
But they happen to get bonuses for using the favored weapon, like rangers get bonuses for fighting favored enemies.
So your point earlier was what exactly?
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Not really. The Magus is going to have one weapon they take weapon focus, specialization, etc with. They aren't as good with other weapons, since they don't get bonuses with them.The difference is that the Magus can use his arcane pool to improve any weapon he is holding.
And the Warpriest can cast spells to buff whatever he is holding.
But the Magus gets additional bonuses to only one weapon.
Same as the Warpriest.
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Like Lord Malkov and some others have said, the devs have stated they're working on favored weapons, so at this point we really are in a wait and see mode on that issue. There have been some decent suggestions in this thread amid all of the bluster, and I hope the devs have taken note of them. Now we're just chasing our own tails. There are other issues we could discuss, like the action economy of the class, but it's pointless to try and do it here. Until we've heard further from the devs on this issue, I'll be looking for honest dialog elsewhere.
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Like Lord Malkov and some others have said, the devs have stated they're working on favored weapons, so at this point we really are in a wait and see mode on that issue. There have been some decent suggestions in this thread amid all of the bluster, and I hope the devs have taken note of them. Now we're just chasing our own tails. There are other issues we could discuss, like the action economy of the class, but it's pointless to try and do it here. Until we've heard further from the devs on this issue, I'll be looking for honest dialog elsewhere.
Would love your ideas over here.
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Like Lord Malkov and some others have said, the devs have stated they're working on favored weapons, so at this point we really are in a wait and see mode on that issue. There have been some decent suggestions in this thread amid all of the bluster, and I hope the devs have taken note of them. Now we're just chasing our own tails. There are other issues we could discuss, like the action economy of the class, but it's pointless to try and do it here. Until we've heard further from the devs on this issue, I'll be looking for honest dialog elsewhere.
Charge of Valor: Once per day at 5th level, the Warpriest may cast one spell on himself with a casting time of a standard action as part of a charge action. This spell can only effect him. The movement part of this charge action does not provoke attacks of opportunity. He gains an additional use of this ability every 3 levels.
I'd tweak the increase of uses to better match the chart but I like the feel of this ability.
Its got a good image of the Warpriest charging through the enemy ranks to get to the BBEG commander.
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(Wonders how many people are actually interested in discussing the Warpriest as a class and how many people are just here to pile on Ciretose.)
Can't we all just get along? Or at least go out and do some more playtesting?
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Because gods grant bonuses arbitrarily, right? Thanks for letting me use this twice.Yeah, they really kind of do. They're called cleric spells, and the caster is under complete control of which ones he gets and when, where, and how they're used. I mean, really, man? That's the best you can come up with?Yes.
And this class can cast cleric spells, regardless of what weapon they wield, can't they?
But they happen to get bonuses for using the favored weapon, like rangers get bonuses for fighting favored enemies.
So your point earlier was what exactly?
My point is that if that's all they've got, the class is essentially cleric-lite and there's no point in having it except as a balance-replacement for cleric for GMs who think full casting is bad. A warpriest should be better at the whole war thing. Giving them proficiency in all martial weapons but then giving the class's BAB-compensation mechanic (that all 3/4 BAB classes that the designers expect to actually fill the front-line role have, you may notice) heavy restrictions limiting it to a single weapon (meaning the class cannot keep up if handed any other weapon, unlike the inquisitor or magus) is a sad joke, pointlessly limiting for no good reason because, once again, most favored weapon entries are arbitrary filler on a chart and in many cases the almighty fluff that you go on about all the time suggests that the deity actually favors a whole bunch of weapons (Gorum) or has a favored "weapon" that's primarily for ceremonial purposes (Pharasma, Calistria) and not, y'know, war or battle.
There are fixes for this. Many have been proposed in this thread. The class itself isn't a bad idea, but it needs something special to set it apart from the other divine casters, who as it stands right now are just as good or better at filling its intended role. Fortunately the developers are looking at the most obvious one (buff spell action economy) according to the blog, so we'll see. Continuing to limit Sacred Weapon to a single weapon type, though, doesn't help at all; no other class that needs a BAB-compensation mechanic has that kind of millstone tied to its use. (Magus: "Any weapon he is holding." Inquisitor: "All attack rolls," "All weapon damage rolls." Ninja, monk: "One additional attack at his highest attack bonus." None of these make any mention of what weapons they apply to except the magus, which specifically says any weapon he cares to hold. And then there's paladin, and the function of a weapon bond should be directly analogous considering the source.) It isn't helpful, it isn't particularly flavorful, and it is needlessly limiting.
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Charge of Valor: Once per day at 5th level, the Warpriest may cast one spell on himself with a casting time of a standard action as part of a charge action. This spell can only effect him. The movement part of this charge action does not provoke attacks of opportunity. He gains an additional use of this ability every 3 levels.
I'd tweak the increase of uses to better match the chart but I like the feel of this ability.
Its got a good image of the Warpriest charging through the enemy ranks to get to the BBEG commander.
This is an excellent idea! Supports the image of a divine warrior charging into battle with a prayer on his lips, and goes along with the dev's stated goal of making the warpriest the best at buffing and healing himself. I like it.
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And the Warpriest can cast spells to buff whatever he is holding.
But the Magus gets additional bonuses to only one weapon.
Same as the Warpriest.
I'm not sure what you mean by "additional bonuses," but there is absolutely no standard Magus class ability which relates to using a specific type of weapon. A Magus may use his arcane pool to empower any weapon he is holding; Warpriest may only use his sacred weapon ability to empower his deity's favored weapon and only that weapon. That is not the same. As I said, I have no problem with the Warpriest only getting weapon focus with his deity's favored weapon, I just object to the fact a Warpriest can only use sacred weapon with his deity's favored weapon. That is not the same.
As for action economy, I think allowing the Warpriest to just apply a limited number of buffs for free at the start of combat will help at least a little. It still won't address the choice between casting and combat they'll face on their action, but they'll at least be able to go in swinging without "buffing rounds."
EDIT: I really like charge of valor. It's kind of a unique spin on the Magus's action economy solutions that shares their elegance while still letting the Warpriest feel distinct.
Ummmm, Spell Combat?
And the Warpriest can cast spells to buff whatever he is holding.
But the Magus gets additional bonuses to only one weapon.
Same as the Warpriest.
I'm not sure what you mean by "additional bonuses," but there is absolutely no standard Magus class ability which relates to using a specific type of weapon. A Magus may use his arcane pool to empower any weapon he is holding; Warpriest may only use his sacred weapon ability to empower his deity's favored weapon and only that weapon. That is not the same. As I said, I have no problem with the Warpriest only getting weapon focus with his deity's favored weapon, I just object to the fact a Warpriest can only use sacred weapon with his deity's favored weapon. That is not the same.
As for action economy, I think allowing the Warpriest to just apply buffs for free at the start of combat will help at least a little. It still won't address the choice between casting and combat they'll face on their action, but they'll at least be able to go in swinging without "buffing rounds."
As I assume the Warpriest is trying to subsume the Battle Cleric role, I find that having even a round of buffing makes that full attack really tempting. If you can get that round and use that Charge of Valor suggestion I posted earlier, I think you'd have a solid combatant.
Tune it with some nice Blessings and do SOMETHING with that spell list and we'd be good to go. By 8th level, the only good buff you have is Divine Favor. I'd like Blessings to have early entry spells from all over the place to tune up their spell list.
Getting 6th level Cleric casting on a delayed progression is so painful I don't even know what to do with it.
We need stuff like Divine Power or Righteous Might asap.
Ah, my apologies, I meant "specific type of weapon" in reference to something like "light mace" or "heavy pick." I included the word "type" to differentiate between a weapon in general (those warhammers on the shelf) and a single, individual weapon (this warhammer my grandfather made).
More broadly, I don't really think the restrictions are particularly comparable. For one, the weapons allowed by Spell combat are significantly broader than those allowed by Sacred weapon, as I said. Secondly, Spell Combat's restriction is essentially a moot point, since you'd need the other hand free to cast a spell, anyhow.
I'm not entirely sure how to parse the statement in the blog post that they're looking for "the class to be among the best in healing and casting spells on itself." Is it: the best at healing and the best casting spells on itself; or the best at healing and casting spells on itself?
If it's the latter, and I personally think it is, I think the class really either needs its own spell list focused on buffs and self-heals, or it needs for the blessings to allow appropriate early access to those spells as Scavion suggested. Couple that with some ways of incorporating casting into other actions, like Scavion's Charge of Valor, and I think you're well on the way to building a coherent class.
If it's the former, I think a version of spell combat would be in order, though without the free hand requirement of the Magus version to allow for the variety of two-handed favored weapons out there. Allow the favored weapon to act as a divine focus, and maybe add in some sort of limited reach spell mechanic so that the Warpriest could provide some combat support to his party members while taking the fight to his opponents.
What do you guys think?
I'm not entirely sure how to parse the statement in the blog post that they're looking for "the class to be among the best in healing and casting spells on itself." Is it: the best at healing and the best casting spells on itself; or the best at healing and casting spells on itself?
If it's the latter, and I personally think it is, I think the class really either needs its own spell list focused on buffs and self-heals, or it needs for the blessings to allow appropriate early access to those spells as Scavion suggested. Couple that with some ways of incorporating casting into other actions, like Scavion's Charge of Valor, and I think you're well on the way to building a coherent class.
If it's the former, I think a version of spell combat would be in order, though without the free hand requirement of the Magus version to allow for the variety of two-handed favored weapons out there. Allow the favored weapon to act as a divine focus, and maybe add in some sort of limited reach spell mechanic so that the Warpriest could provide some combat support to his party members while taking the fight to his opponents.
What do you guys think?
Honestly I'm not too sure about the healing comment. As long as he has a delayed channel energy I don't see him pulling anything cool off with it. In fact if they try to tie in channel energy to pretty much anything in the middle of combat it'll likely come out lackluster unless your an evil Warpriest. And it might make Selective Channeling a feat tax and the whole thing a trap option.
I'm hoping they drop it and do something like a Holy Power pool that they can do neat stuff with it or something. The talent system is great. We need more classes like that. Adds a lot of customization options.
I kinda want our Warpriest to be invigorated by battle that way we can have these soldiers holding on by faith alone then dropping unconscious after the battle. A psuedo ragelike ability would be cool called like...
That sounds cool.
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Just a small suggestion, two actually:
1) Count Warpriest levels as Fighter and Cleric levels when counting for bonus feats.
2) Add bonus feats to the selectable list based on the blessings chosen. This way you are adding a bit more flavor from your blessings and you're not just stuck doing combat feats.
I'm playtesting tomorrow, but these are two things I thought of while writing up my character.
I hope you guys get to see it among the sea of replies :D
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Also, adding class skills based on blessings, such as adding Knowledge (Arcana) for choosing the Magic blessing.
I could see doing this, although some of the "relevant" skills are probably already part of the class list. Maybe in those cases, give a bonus to the skill?
Could we stop arguing for options that don't exist?
If you think you have a good idea to fix the Warpriest, and want to treat that idea as "the default" for the class, please make a new thread?
This thread is for discussing the Warpriest as presented by the developers, and for offering feedback based on nothing else.
Suggesting fixes is fine. Assuming a suggested fix is "canon" (for lack of a better word) is not fine, and pretty far off-topic.
Just a small suggestion, two actually:
2) Add bonus feats to the selectable list based on the blessings chosen. This way you are adding a bit more flavor from your blessings and you're not just stuck doing combat feats.
Considering the word count they're already putting into making all the Favored Weapons balanced, I really don't want to sink more word count into having each Blessing with it's own bonus feat options. While it would be cool, I think it'd be detrimental to the book as a whole.
Remember theres only so much room in the book. We still need to fit all the archetypes, magic items, feats, and new options for the base classes in.
Hey guys, I've been spending the past day or so going over and playtesting various Warpriest ideas, and I've decided to rewrite every single blessing available for the warpriest at the moment. I'm pretty happy with most of the results, save the following: I'm not really sure what to do with the Nobility or Rune blessings, so I've left them pretty much as-is. I also don't feel the current Death blessing abilities are appropriate for a Warpriest of Pharasma, but neither were the originals. Also, we still need blessings for the Scalykind and Void domains: I'm guessing those were low-priority since none of the core deities have those. I'm not sure what to do with those, either.
Deities: Gozreh, Shelyn
Zephyr's Gift (Minor): Any ranged weapon the warpriest holds gains the quality of air. Making ranged attacks with this weapon never provokes an attack of opportunity, and the range increment of the weapon increases by 5 feet per class level.
Soaring Assault (Major): The Warpriest gains a fly speed of 60 feet with average maneuverability, and a bonus on fly skill checks equal to his class level. Whenever you succeed at a charge attack while flying, that attack deals additional electricity damage equal to your class level. This is a supernatural ability.
Animal
Deities: Erastil, Gozreh
Animal Fury (Minor): The Warpriest gains 2 claw attacks or 1 bite attack (the decision is made when the ability is gained). These attacks deal appropriate damage for the warpriest's size. These are primary natural attacks that replace any similar primary natural attacks the warpriest may already have.
Call of the Wild (Major): The Warpriest gains Scent, Low-Light Vision, and Darkvision out to 60 feet (if he already possessed Darkvision, its range extends by 60 ft.). As a swift action, the Warpriest gains a +2 morale bonus to Strength or Dexterity (warpriest's choice) until the end of his turn. This bonus increases to +4 at 15th level, and +6 at 20th level.
Artifice
Deities: Torag
Crafter's Wrath (Minor): The Warpriest gains a +4 morale bonus to damage rolls against constructs and objects (including damage rolls for sunder combat maneuvers). The warpriest also gains Improved Sunder as a bonus feat.
Enhance Magic (Major): As a swift action, you may activate your Sacred Weapon or Sacred Armor ability, gaining an enhancement bonus on your armor or weapon 2 points greater than otherwise. These points may be used to grant the item magic properties, as normal.
Chaos
Deities: Calistria, Cayden Cailean, Desna, Gorum, Lamashtu, Rovagug
Anarchic Strike (Minor): Any weapon you hold deals an extra 1d6 points of damage against lawful creatures. This bonus damage doesn't stack with the anarchic weapon special ability.
Strike of Limitless Chaos (Major): As a swift action, the next attack you make with your weapon stuns a lawful creature it strikes, unless that creature succeeds at a will save. A Lawful Outsider takes a -4 penalty to this save. If the creature it strikes isn't Lawful, or misses, this ability does nothing and is wasted.
Charm
Deities: Calistra, Cayden Cailean, Norgorber, Shelyn
Forceful Domination (Minor): As a swift action, you can issue a Command (as the spell) to 1 enemy within 30 feet. It must succeed at a will saving throw or submit for 1 round.
Charming Presence (Major): The warpriest becomes strangely mesmerizing, as the effects of a Sanctuary spell, save that if the warpriest attacks an enemy the effect is only broken towards that enemy. This is a mind-affecting effect.
Community
Deities: Erastil
Communal Aid (Minor): Whenever the Warpriest uses the Aid Another action, the bonus is increased to +4.
Arrow Deflection (Major): As a swift action, you can touch a shield to give it the Arrow Deflection ability for 1 minute. In addition, any projectile or thrown weapon aimed at a target within 30 feet of the shield's bearer diverts from its original target and targets the bearer instead.
Darkness
Deities: Zon-Kuthon
Enshrouding Darkness (Minor): The warpriest becomes cloaked in shadows. All attacks against him have a miss chance equal to 5% * half his class level (minimum 5%). This ability does not work in full daylight. Creatures able to see normally in supernatural darkness ignore this miss chance. This miss chance does not stack with miss chance granted from any other source, such as concealment.
Darkened Vision (Major): As a swift action, any successful attack you make with your weapon until the beginning of your next turn blinds the target as blindness/deafness for 1 minute, unless the target succeeds at a will saving throw.
Death
Deities: Norgorber, Pharasma, Urgathoa, Zon-Kuthon
From the Grave (Minor): You gain a corpse-like visage, making you more intimidating and giving you undead-like protection. You gain a +4 bonus to Intimidate checks, and to Disguise checks to resemble an undead creature, as well as a +2 bonus on saving throws against disease, mind-affecting effects, paralysis, poison, and stun.
Death's Touch (Major): As a swift action when you hit an opponent with a melee attack, the target gains 1 temporary negative level for 1 minute. These temporary negative levels stack. You gain 1d6 temporary hit points when you inflict a negative level this way.
Destruction
Deities: Gorum, Nethys, Rovagug, Zon-Kuthon
Destructive Attacks (Minor): As a swift action, all attacks you make with your weapon this turn gain a morale bonus to damage rolls equal to half your level (minimum 1).
Heart of Carnage (Major): The critical threat range of any weapon you hold increases by 1. This benefit is not doubled by effects such as the Improved Critical feat or the Keen weapon property, but it does stack with those effects.
Earth
Deities: Gorum, Nethys
Acid Strike (Minor): As a swift action, all attacks you make with your weapon for 1 minute deals an additional 1d4 points of acid damage with each strike. This bonus damage does not stack with the corrosive weapon special ability.
Armor of Earth (Major): Your skin hardens like stone. You gain DR 3/-. If you already have DR 3/- or greater, this DR increases by 1 point, to a maximum of DR 15/-.
Evil
Deities: Asmodeus, Lamashtu, Norgorber, Rovagug, Urgathoa, Zon-Kuthon
Unholy Strike (Minor): Any weapon you hold deals an extra 1d6 points of damage against good creatures. This bonus damage does not stack with the unholy weapon special ability.
Strike of Unspeakable Evil (Major): As a swift action, the next attack you make with your weapon stuns a good creature it strikes, unless that creature succeeds at a will save. A Good Outsider takes a -4 penalty to this save. If the creature it strikes isn't Good, or misses, this ability does nothing and is wasted.
Fire
Deities: Asmodeus, Sarenrae
Flaming Strike (Minor): As a swift action, all attacks you make with your weapon for 1 minute deals an additional 1d4 points of fire damage with each strike. This bonus damage does not stack with the flaming or flaming burst weapon special abilities.
Armor of Flame (Major): The warpriest becomes wrapped in flames. You become under the constant effect of a Fire Shield (warm shield only). You may suppress or resume this ability as a free action.
Glory
Deities: Gorum, Iomedae, Sarenrae
Glorious Presence (Minor): The Warpriest gains Intimidate as a class skill, and may add his Wisdom modifier to his Charisma modifier for the purposes of making Diplomacy and Intimidate checks.
Demoralizing Glory (Major): As a swift action when you damage an opponent with an attack, you can attempt to demoralize that opponent with the Intimidate skill, using your Warpriest level in place of your ranks in Intimidate.
Good
Deities: Cayden Cailean, Desna, Erastil, Iomedae, Sarenrae, Shelyn, Torag
Holy Strike (Minor): Any weapon you hold deals an extra 1d6 points of damage against good creatures. This bonus damage does not stack with the unholy weapon special ability.
Strike of Overwhelming Good (Major): As a swift action, the next attack you make with your weapon stuns an evil creature it strikes, unless that creature succeeds at a will save. An Evil Outsider takes a -4 penalty to this save. If the creature it strikes isn't evil, or misses, this ability does nothing and is wasted.
Healing
Deities: Irori, Pharasma, Sarenrae
Close Wounds (Minor): As an immediate action, one ally within 60 feet heals 1d8 points of damage for every 4 warpriest levels you possess (minimum 1d8). If this ability is used in response to that creature taking damage, the damage this ability heals is considered to be prevented. (For example, if you use this ability when an ally would be reduced to below -10 hit points, and this ability heals them above -10 hit points, that ally does not die.)
Fast Healing (Major): The Warpriest gains Fast Healing 1.
Knowledge
Deities: Calistria, Irori, Nethys, Norgorber, Pharasma
Lore Keeper (Minor): Whenever you make a knowledge check to learn a creature's strengths and weaknesses, you may add your Wisdom modifier as a bonus to the check. You gain all Knowledge skills as class skills.
Monster Lore (Major): As a swift action, you may make a check against all creatures present to learn about their strengths and weaknesses (this is considered only one use of the blessing no matter how many creatures there are). You be trained in the appropriate knowledge skill to make this check. Against any creatures for which the check succeeds, you gain a +4 insight bonus on attack rolls, damage rolls, AC, and saving throws for 1 minute.
Law
Deities: Abadar, Asmodeus, Erastil, Iomedae, Irori, Torag, Zon-Kuthon
Axiomatic Strike (Minor): Any weapon you hold deals an extra 1d6 points of damage against chaotic creatures. This bonus damage does not stack with the axiomatic weapon special ability.
Strike of Perfect Order (Major): As a swift action, the next attack you make with your weapon stuns a chaotic creature it strikes, unless that creature succeeds at a will save. A Chaotic Outsider takes a -4 penalty to this save. If the creature it strikes isn't Chaotic, or misses, this ability does nothing and is wasted.
Liberation
Deities: Desna
Liberation (Minor): As a swift action you can ignore impediments to your mobility for 1 round, as freedom of movement. You may activate this blessing even if you're unable to take actions, but not if you are unconscious.
Freedom's Call (Major): You emit an aura of freedom. You and all allies within 30 feet become immune to the confused, dazed, grappled, frightened, panicked, paralyzed, pinned, shaken, or stunned conditions.
Luck
Deities: Calistra, Desna, Shelyn
Lucky Surge (Minor): Whenever you roll an attack roll, skill check, or saving throw, as a swift action you can roll twice and take the higher result.
Unlucky Aura (Major): All enemies within 30 feet of you take a -2 luck penalty to attack rolls, skill checks, AC, and saving throws.
Madness
Deities: Lamashtu
Vision of Insanity (Minor): As a swift action, you may confuse a creature within 30 feet for 1 round that fails a will save, as the spell Lesser Confusion. The creature rerolls any result except "Attack Self" or "Babble Incoherently." This is a mind-affecting ability.
Aura of Nightmares (Major): Any creature that comes within 30 feet of you gains the Shaken condition. This bypasses immunity to fear, but does not stack with any other fear effect.
Magic
Deities: Asmodeus, Nethys, Urgathoa
Magical Surge (Minor): Any allied spellcaster within 10 feet of you gains a +1 bonus to their spell's caster level or saving throw DCs; The spellcaster chooses which benefit their spell gets at the time of the casting of the spell. This ability does not work on your own spells.
Eldritch Disruption (Major): As a swift action, you can select 1 creature within 30 feet: That creature loses all ability to cast spells or use its spell-like or supernatural abilities, as if it were in an antimagic field, for 1 round.
Nobility
Deities: Abadar
Inspiring Word (Minor): As a swift action you can speak an inspiring word to a creature within 30 feet. The creature receives a +2 morale bonus to attack rolls, skill checks, ability checks, and saving throws for 1 round. You cannot use this ability on yourself.
Lead By Example (Major): You can inspire allies to follow your lead. If you take an action on your turn, all allies within 30 feet who take the same action on their next turn gain a +4 morale bonus to the attack roll, skill check, ability check, or saving throw to complete that action. For example, if you charge an opponent and make a melee attack, and an ally also charges an opponent and makes a melee attack, she gains a +4 morale bonus on her attack roll.
Plant
Deities: Erastil, Gozreh
Entangling Vines (Minor): As a swift action, you can summon vines to entangle a creature within 60 feet for 1 round (reflex negates).
Tree Guardian (Major): By spending 10 minutes meditating beneath a tree, you can turn that tree into a Treant that serves you absolutely. You may only have one Treant at a time created this way: Creating another one turns the old one back into an ordinary tree.
Protection
Deities: Abadar, Nethys, Shelyn, Torag
Increased Defense (Minor): As a swift action, you can give yourself a +1 resistance bonus to all saving throws for 1 minute. This bonus increases to +2 at 5th level, and +1 for every 5 levels after that (to a maximum of +5 at 20th level). This resistance bonus stacks with any resistance bonus to saving throws you already have.
Aura of Protection (Major): You emit a 30-foot aura that fills allies with feelings of warmth and safety. You and your allies within this aura gain a +1 deflection bonus to AC and resistance 5 against acid, cold, electricity, fire, and sonic. The deflection bonus increases to +2 at 15th level and +3 at 20th level. At 15th level, the energy resistance increases to 10.
Repose
Deities: Pharasma
Gentle Rest (Minor): As a swift action, you can fill a creature within 30 feet with lethargy, causing it to be staggered for 1 round. If the creature is already staggered, it instead falls asleep for 1 round. An undead targeted by this ability is staggered for a number of rounds equal to your Wisdom modifier instead (minimum 1).
Back to the Grave (Major): You gain Turn Undead as a bonus feat, even if you don't channel positive energy, and the save DC to resist being turned is increased by your Wisdom modifier. Any undead that fails its will save by 5 or more when you use this ability is destroyed utterly.
Rune
Deities: Irori, Nethys
Blast Rune (Minor): As a swift action, you can create a blast rune in any adjacent square. Any creature entering this square takes points of damage equal to 1d6 + half your class level. This rune deals either acid, cold, electricity, or fire damage, designated when the rune is created. the rune lasts a number of rounds equal to your warpriest level or until discharged. You cannot create a blast rune in a square occupied by another creature. This rune counts as a 1st-level spell for the purposes of dispelling. It can be discovered with a DC 26 perception check, and disarmed with a DC 26 Disable Device check.
Spell-Storing Weapon (Major): As a standard action, you can cast a spell into a weapon as if it had the spell storing special ability. If the stored weapon is not used within 10 minutes, it dissapates.
Strength
Deities: Cayden Cailean, Gorum, Irori, Lamashtu, Urgathoa
Strength Surge (Minor): As a swift action, you gain a morale bonus equal to your class level (minimum +2) to your Strength for 1 round.
Strength of Will (Major): You can ignore the movement penalties from wearing medium and heavy armor (or carrying a medium or heavy load). You may add your Strength bonus on your saving throws against effects that would paralyze, slow, daze, or stun you.
Sun
Deities: Iomedae, Sarenrae
Blinding Strike (Minor): When you strike an opponent with an attack, as a swift action you can make it glow with a flash of sunlight. If the creature struck by the attack fails a reflex saving throw, it is blinded for 1 round; otherwise, it's dazzled for 1 round. This is a light effect. Creatures with light blindness or light sensitivity take a -4 penalty on this saving throw. Sightless creatures are unaffected by this ability.
Bane of Undead (Major): Any weapon you hold gains undead-slaying weapon special ability.
Travel
Deities: Abadar, Cayden Cailean, Desna
Agile Feet (Minor): You ignore all difficult terrain and take no penalties for moving through it.
Dimensional Hop (Major): As a swift action, you can use Dimension Door as a supernatural ability. At 20th level, you can instead use Greater Teleport as a supernatural ability.
Trickery
Deities: Asmodeus, Calistria, Lamashtu, Norgorber
Distraction (Minor): Any foe adjacent to you is considered to be flat-footed for the purposes of all effects except your own.
Greater Invisibility (Major): As a swift action, you can turn invisible, as the spell Greater Invisibility, for 1 round.
War
Deities: Gorum, Iomedae, Rovagug, Urgathoa
War Mind (Minor): You gain a bonus on all initiative checks equal to your Wisdom modifier. At 10th level, when you roll initiative, you may roll twice and take the higher result. At 20th level, you're always treated as if you rolled a natural 20 for your initiative check.
Weapon Master (Major): As a swift action, you can gain the benefits of any combat feat for 1 round, but you must meet the prerequisites of this feat.
Water
Deities: Gozreh, Pharasma
Frost Strike (Minor): As a swift action, all attacks you make with your weapon for 1 minute deals an additional 1d4 points of cold damage with each strike. This bonus damage does not stack with the frost or icy burst weapon special abilities.
Armor of Ice (Major): The warpriest becomes wrapped in freezing mist. You become under the constant effect of a Fire Shield (cold shield only). You may suppress or resume this ability as a free action.
Weather
Deities: Gozreh, Rovagug
Storm Strike (Minor): As a swift action, all attacks you make with your weapon for 1 minute deals an additional 1d4 points of electricity damage with each strike. This bonus damage does not stack with the shock or shocking burst weapon special abilities.
Wind Barrier (Major): The Warpriest is surrounded by a barrier of fast-moving winds. You are constantly protected by the effects of a Feather Fall and a Wind Wall, save that it doesn't interfere with your own ranged attacks.
W.r.t Craft's blessing changes, I generally like them though I haven't play tested them. Just a couple of ideas.
The darkness minor blessing is way impressive by mid-level. It's better than total concealment by level 11. It needs a cap IMO, e.g. no more than 50% miss. Or less. Making it fail in sunlight is an odd way to balance it.
I've never liked water being primarily associated with cold. A power named Liquid Body which acts as Fortification (negating some amount of SA/crits) might replace one of those.
W.r.t Craft's blessing changes, I generally like them though I haven't play tested them. Just a couple of ideas.
Thanks!
The darkness minor blessing is way impressive by mid-level. It's better than total concealment by level 11. It needs a cap IMO, e.g. no more than 50% miss. Or less. Making it fail in sunlight is an odd way to balance it.
It's 5% * half class level. At level 11 the miss chance is 25%. Btw, the "fails in direct sunlight" thing comes from the Shadowcraft Mage ability, which is what that blessing power is based on. (The ScM ability is actually stronger because the miss chance scales much faster, but doesn't go above 50%.)
I've never liked water being primarily associated with cold. A power named Liquid Body which acts as Fortification (negating some amount of SA/crits) might replace one of those.
I considered this actually, but you can already get fortification with Sacred Armor, so I didn't see much of a point. Then again, the elemental and alignment blessings all give you something that can be duplicated with Sacred Weapon. Still though, I think there's a place for the permanent fire shield with a different energy type. Maybe make it a sub-blessing, if we ever get those.
Warpriest
Finally we get to the warpriest. We are looking at strengthening the role of this class by taking it a bit away from the cleric's position. While we want the class to be among the best at healing and casting spells on itself and we are investigating a mechanic to let it do just that (probably in place of channel energy). We are also looking into a new class feature that allows the warpriest to be an effective combatant with the favored weapon of its deity, regardless of what weapon is favored by their deity. Look for increased damage and additional effects depending on the type of weapon and its role in the game.
I am looking forward to seeing how they manage to make a warpriest of Kurgess work. That will be some task they sat for themselves. A thrown weapon that can't really be used in melee...
Good Luck.
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Warpriest
Finally we get to the warpriest. We are looking at strengthening the role of this class by taking it a bit away from the cleric's position. While we want the class to be among the best at healing and casting spells on itself and we are investigating a mechanic to let it do just that (probably in place of channel energy). We are also looking into a new class feature that allows the warpriest to be an effective combatant with the favored weapon of its deity, regardless of what weapon is favored by their deity. Look for increased damage and additional effects depending on the type of weapon and its role in the game.
I am looking forward to seeing how they manage to make a warpriest of Kurgess work. That will be some task they sat for themselves. A thrown weapon that can't really be used in melee...
Good Luck.
Maybe they could just stick returning on it for a warpriest. :P Then you can stand at the limit of their first range increment and let'em whirl. You'll only be able to get one attack per round that way, but you'd at least still be able to use it. They could probably allow that particular favored weapon to grant otherwise melee only warpriest abilities special dispensation to work in that first range increment, through the weapon. Or y'know, give it some kind of effect that is similar to returning, but puts it back in your character's hand in time for it to do a full round of attacks. Not the most optimal thing in the world, but I bet the right setup could make that pretty mean.
Personally I enjoy the concept behind a Warpriest (and Cleric, Paladin, and inquisitor) being masters of their diety's favorite weapon. But they shouldn't be completely useless without said weapon. Another option, which would require work, would be to give certain dieties multiple favorite weapons, such as Lamashtu's Kukri and Falchion. Because, let's face it, Clerics of Gorum should also be proficient in armor spikes.
Kali is depicted as using a different weapon in each arm. And then there is symbolic weapons, only example I can think of right now is Thor and Mjollnir. He also uses lightning, which could be a javelin.
Anyway, I was a little bummed at the 3/4 bab, but their goodies seem like it might help out. I need to playtest it before I decide.
do you guys think that we get the Scalykind and Void blessings in this book or what about Subblessings?
do you guys think that we get the Scalykind and Void blessings in this book or what about Subblessings?
+1 for Void.
do you guys think that we get the Scalykind and Void blessings in this book or what about Subblessings?
I'd hope so, but probably not. None of the core deities have the scalykind/void domains, so that'd probably be material more appropriate for a golarion-specific book. Inner Sea Faith, or whatever. Sub-blessings would be neat but there's a lot of subdomains to go over, so it seems like an obvious choice to leave to expansion books. Maybe we'll see a few, but I doubt we'll get one for every subdomain that's been published.
I would like this class to have full channel ability, that or give it lay on hands like a paladin and a way to channel. The paladin/antipaladin which is a 4 level caster can, in theory, get full 9d6 channels off. The warpriest that only gets 7d6 is a sub-par healer in and out of combat. I get that they want to fill the role of the battle cleric. I saw the battle in the class but I didn't see the cleric or healer. Maybe there is an archetype in the works that gets the full channeling, maybe I'm just weird. I also just don't see the fighter mix into this class. I've seen a lot of people posting to make warpriest levels count as fighter for feats and to that +1.
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I'm not sure what you mean by "additional bonuses," but there is absolutely no standard Magus class ability which relates to using a specific type of weapon.And the Warpriest can cast spells to buff whatever he is holding.
But the Magus gets additional bonuses to only one weapon.
Same as the Warpriest.
Fighter training allows the Magus to access the fighter bonus feats, like weapon specialisation, greater weapon focus, etc...which would only apply to one weapon.
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Personally I enjoy the concept behind a Warpriest (and Cleric, Paladin, and inquisitor) being masters of their diety's favorite weapon.
And they are. All the buff spells (6 levels) apply to all weapons. In fact almost everything but a buff to damage on favored weapons applies to all weapons.
At this point, it is simply a bonus to the favored weapon.
It isn't a penalty to other weapons. It isn't saying other bonuses don't apply to other weapons.
It is saying "Here is a bonus to a weapon."
If ranger came out today, I expect we would here "Having to pick one favored enemy makes me useless against any other enemy!"...
If ranger came out today, I expect we would here "Having to pick one favored enemy makes me useless against any other enemy!"...
...Except that's what people actually say. It's one of the reasons archetypes that trade favored enemy (like Guide) are so popular, and why the Slayer has that instead of favored enemy.
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If ranger came out today, I expect we would here "Having to pick one favored enemy makes me useless against any other enemy!"......Except that's what people actually say. It's one of the reasons archetypes that trade favored enemy (like Guide) are so popular, and why the Slayer has that instead of favored enemy.
Called it.
@Ciretose
You seem to be under the impression that people who think the rangers favored enemy is bad are bad people.
This is not a construcive viewpoint.
You also seem to think that people who treat pathfinder like an elaborate mini wargame are bad people and that catering to them is bad, even when it doesn't hurt the people who want to roleplay.
Or(I think "and" would be more appropriate here.), at the very least, I find your definition of what 'hurts roleplaying' to be extremely silly.
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@Ciretose
You seem to be under the impression that people who think the rangers favored enemy is bad are bad people.
Citation?
I think the people who think the rangers favored enemy is bad are wrong.
If you think that everyone who thinks you are wrong about something does so because they think you are a bad person...
Boils down to badwrongfun.
Devs have asked to not fill up this page with favored weapon crap anymore, and there is another thread for it.
Let's not get the sticky thread locked.
@Craft Cheese: Broadly speaking I like it. Monopolizing the swift action prevents it from being too crazy. Good you have as having the Unholy property as of now. It should also overcome alignment DR (as should the one in the playtest methinks) and the Charm ability should only be useable on a creature 1/24hours as per a hex otherwise you just command the big-bad all day.
Of the blessings as they stand, I like the Air and Water abilities, although I don't know why not all of the Elemental abilities are symmetrical and Weather gets to fit in where air ought to be.
I don't particularly like the ones that have you make a touch attack (Like Repose does), considering you should always have your hands full as a warpriest. Rather, I should say you should expect to have your hands full. If it could activate on a hit or something, forcing a will save and 1/24 hours or something I'd be better with it.
I don't want to have the frustration with this class that I have had with the Holy Vindicator. I wanted a Vindicator of Gorum holding a BIG BAD GREATSWORD... but then I felt like I was losing out on a huge boon because I couldn't carry a shield for the Channel bonus to AC at the same time. That character is a battle oracle now.
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Favored Enemy sucks because you have to pick one (barring an archetype that trades it) whether your concept actually calls for it or not.
It's one thing to say "I'm an expert demon hunter, I have lots of special skills specifically for taking down demons. When people want a demon dealt with, they call me." Situational abilities that fit the character concept I'm fine with. It's another thing to say "I'm a ranger with no particular desire to specialize in taking down particular types of enemies. Might as well pick humanoid since every campaign has you fighting some eventually." Abilities that have nothing to do with your character concept are unnecessary fat dangling off the character: If you have more than a few of them it means the class isn't a good fit for the character.
Likewise, "I'm a fringe cultist of Iomedae who refuses to use anything other than a longsword, because that's what my religion is all about" is fine, and the rules should support it. It's another thing entirely to shoehorn every warpriest into that type of obsessive-compulsive concept that doesn't even fit the lore for most deities.
Fighter training allows the Magus to access the fighter bonus feats, like weapon specialisation, greater weapon focus, etc...which would only apply to one weapon.I'm not sure what you mean by "additional bonuses," but there is absolutely no standard Magus class ability which relates to using a specific type of weapon.And the Warpriest can cast spells to buff whatever he is holding.
But the Magus gets additional bonuses to only one weapon.
Same as the Warpriest.
You keep saying this, so now I've got to ask: are you aware of what those feats are actually worth? I'll give you a hint: nothing. They're wretched travesties that Pathfinder inherited from 3.5 and which the designers, for whatever reason, did not bother to fix, or did not have time to fix. The whole feat line should've been dragged out back and shot half a decade ago.
What's really interesting is that you seem to believe that every Magus will take them, that they're valuable enough to be must-have feats. Trust me: this is not the case. There are better ways to boost to-hit and damage that are compatible with Magus and those methods are - wait for it - weapon agnostic.
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Boils down to badwrongfun.
Devs have asked to not fill up this page with favored weapon crap anymore, and there is another thread for it.
Let's not get the sticky thread locked.
No, it boils down to we are having a discussion about what the mechanics of a new class should be.
I'm on record as saying I don't like the design of the Magus. Now people are getting on record as to not liking the design of the Ranger.
This isn't personal, or it shouldn't be. I don't assume that if someone thinks I'm wrong that they think I am a bad person. I think it is going to be a rough ride for anyone on the internet who thinks that way.
I made a statement that basically said many the people who don't like favored enemy are the same people who don't like ranger.
I was apparently correct.
That is context.
If someone said I don't like the idea of giving spell combat to this class because I don't like the magus, they would be correct. I think spell combat ruined that class.
And many people disagree with me.
Which is fine.
I like the concept of this class. I like the concept of the ranger. I like some things being better than other things, and special things being special for some classes and not others.
I like the flavor of a God seeing a follower using the weapon they favor and giving a bonus for that.
Because it is the weapon they favor.
If others don't, I am glad they are speaking now and not holding their peace. I wish it was less chicken little "They sky is falling you suck and this sucks"...but I also think that helps my argument a bit when people just...well...rage.
Many people on the other side have made arguments without being argumentative. I'm not one to let things slide when I disagree, and particularly when I think someone is being disagreeable toward me.
But it is very relevant to the discussion that I don't like the Magus and others don't like the ranger. It makes clear what type of design we think the class should follow.
Which is the point of the playtest.
@Craft Cheese: Broadly speaking I like it. Monopolizing the swift action prevents it from being too crazy. Good you have as having the Unholy property as of now. It should also overcome alignment DR (as should the one in the playtest methinks) and the Charm ability should only be useable on a creature 1/24hours as per a hex otherwise you just command the big-bad all day.
Ahh, having your weapon overcome appropriate alignment DR is a good idea.
As for the Charm ability, don't forget that the enemy gets a will save to resist the effect.
I don't particularly like the ones that have you make a touch attack (Like Repose does), considering you should always have your hands full as a warpriest. Rather, I should say you should expect to have your hands full. If it could activate on a hit or something, forcing a will save and 1/24 hours or something I'd be better with it.
I agree, that's why all of my blessings either got rid of the touch attack requirement, or let you use it through your weapon. (Note I allow such abilities to be used with a ranged weapon as well for every single one of my modified blessings. Blind mooks with arrows!)
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You keep saying this, so now I've got to ask: are you aware of what those feats are actually worth? I'll give you a hint: nothing. They're wretched travesties that Pathfinder inherited from 3.5 and which the designers, for whatever reason, did not bother to fix, or did not have time to fix. The whole feat line should've been dragged out back and shot half a decade ago.
"wretched travesties" the "which the designers, for whatever reason, did not bother to fix"
If you take greater weapon focus and weapon specialization you get roughly the same bonus above what any other class could potentially get, at the same level you get from Sacred Weapon.
But the difference between with and without sacred weapon is something you think would make using another weapon inconceivable.
Don't you think when you start throwing around ""wretched travesties" you've kicked the hyperbole up a bit?
...which has nothing to do with a moderator asking that that line of discussion end here, or be moved elsewhere.