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Yeah, I'd really like to see the bonus feats changed to 2nd level plus another every 3 levels. That way you'd get a bonus feat at some of the key BAB thresholds (8th level is +6 BAB, which has a lot of feats; 11th level is +8 BAB which has Improved Critical and Greater Weapon Focus, if they decide to give us access to that). Over 20 levels we'd get just as many feats, just less up front and at better timing to take advantage of them.
I also wouldn't mind if they allowed bonus feat swaps (ala Fighter) at maybe levels 5, 11, and 17. Not as often as a fighter, but enough to let you tweak your character if a planned progression goes awry.
^This. This will solve all the bonus feat problems. Great idea.
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It also makes the class a little less dippy to stick the feat at 2nd.
I think its a good change.
I still see this class's major issues being two-fold.
1) Action economy. Every melee focused cleric knows how this works out. Either you can buff before combat and you are good, or you can't and you have to spend a round doing at least one buff before you can compete at all with your 3/4 BAB and added wisdom stat dependancy.
2) Since buffs, and not class features, are creating the dividing line between when this class is effective in combat or not, a standard Cleric, who has more spells per day and, way more importantly, MUCH earlier access to the better buffs, still ends up looking better than the Warpriest.
In light of point 2, I think that allowing Warpriests to cast a handful of select combat buffs as if they were lower level spells might be in order.
Otherwise, you have a warpriest at level 9 who can cast divine power once per day against a cleric casting Righteous Might. Assuming they use the same stat array, or even asssuming that the warpriest has 2 more points of strength where the cleric has 2 more points of wisdom.... this ends up looking pretty bad for the warpriest.
Sacred Weapon +2 is not making up for enough here to justify all of the other losses.
So, needed fixes:
1. Action economy struggles.
2. Access to Buff spells/self heals
Eh, with the benefit of Weapon Focus it's roughly on par with the benefit you get from the Inquisitor's Judgement ability, though the duration does suck until later levels.
I think it's mostly the duration that kills it, for me. A resource that scarce should give a much more meaningful advantage for its expenditure. I've never played an Inquisitor to compare it to, but from having been in a campaign with one, it seems as though they have more versatility with their judgments.
Derp, yes. It would have made the ability much more useful in terms of action economy. I still don't think I would have used it until what I would perceive as the final battle of a day, though. It just doesn't do much.
Yeah, basically this. Sacred weapon either needs to be more powerful or usable more often; as it stands, its duration is short enough that I felt like I had to save it for climactic battles because it was a scarce resource, but its bonuses were small enough that it didn't really seem that pertinent when those climactic battles came.
That would be nice but there is still the problem that Sacred Weapons have a +5 enhancement bonus cap. Drop that, and suddenly you've got something pretty interesting. How cool would it be to, at higher levels, be able to spontaneously bring the equivalent of an artifact to bear against your enemy?
I think this is a really cool idea. It's not like more "pluses" are going to make the ability overpowered, and I really like the flavor of being so pious that a mundane weapon turns to an artifact of overwhelming holy power in your hands.
Oh my goodness. I hate to alarm people, but I'm beginning to fear that we've become... productive. (gasp!)
Blargh Favored Weapons are about as flavorful as oatmeal raisin cookies.
Besides the inquisitor, the base cleric and the paladin even the new shaman (with the battle spirit) is stepping on the warpriest's toes.
With the Battle Master hex he gets an additional AoO without needing a high dex, weapon specialization and eventually greater feapon focus. This can be done with any one weapon.
Later he gets to give his weapon the bane weapon special ability as a swift action a couple of times per day.
The fact that he can change his wandering spirit makes him very versatile.
So in the end the battle shaman is a better warpriest than the warpriest.
But if building one I'd probably dip a level into warpriest to benefit from his mighty front load.
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But if building one I'd probably dip a level into warpriest to benefit from his mighty front load.
Goodness that sounds wrong.
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So, needed fixes:
1. Action economy struggles.
2. Access to Buff spells/self heals
** spoiler omitted **** spoiler omitted **The first is a bit of an imitation of spell recall, with a new mechanic in it as well, and the second might need to be improved or downgraded.So, needed fixes:
1. Action economy struggles.
2. Access to Buff spells/self heals
I really like both those solutions ArmouredMonk, however I feel to mitigate the action economy boost of being able to buff as a swift action, the Warpriest should only be able to target himself. "Though they may have additional benefits" sounds like it could be construed to buffing other allies.
Also what level would he gain Sacred Empowerment?
Getting Paladin spells WOULD be really good. Since they get some early entry stuff you could justify by casting at a higher level. Solid stuff Beckett.
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Ok, let me try this, and please read it as “a” suggestion rather than “ciretose's” suggestion
So at first level lose the bonus feat and blessing as currently written and replace blessing with the ability to add a +1 enchantment (weapon or armor) linked to a domain of your deity for one round a level. This isn't a +1, this is a special enchantment, like bane:undead or flaming that is matched to a domain, and not just a +1.
This can be added to any weapon as a swift action, not just the favored weapon of your deity.
Enough to the useful at 1st but not so much to be broken. But what are you doing with Blessing being cut so much? Glad you asked.
Rather than using the domain style from Cleric, use the Mystery Style from Oracle. Replace the bonus spells with Combat Style feats similar to ranger (including not needing pre-requisites). There are 14 Weapon styles as opposed to the 32 blessing domains, so space will be similar. The special abilities (think Oracle revalations) will apply to any weapon, and in fact don't need to even be weapon specific. Giving fast movement to unarmed group perhaps? Just a list of abilities similar to revalations, only linked to weapon groups.
What about channel?
And finally
Yes this is a fairly big change for blessings, but in many ways it is really is just swapping using domains as the template for using mysteries as the template. I think this addresses the top loading, helps with the MAD (not prerequisites for combat style feats), keeps sacred being sacred without making other options "useless", and finally makes this unique from Cleric or Inquisitor without reinventing the wheel.
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I wonder if it would be better to allow Paladin, Inquisitor, and Druid spells instead of Wizard?That could be a good idea, I was just going with wizard list because it has the most buffs.
I really like both those solutions ArmouredMonk, however I feel to mitigate the action economy boost of being able to buff as a swift action, the Warpriest should only be able to target himself. "Though they may have additional benefits" sounds like it could be construed to buffing other allies.
Also what level would he gain Sacred Empowerment?
Getting Paladin spells WOULD be really good. Since they get some early entry stuff you could justify by casting at a higher level. Solid stuff Beckett.
Ah, sorry. Meant to include that it could only effect him. The additional benefit line was to include spells like divine power or protection from evil to work. Probably would need better wording. Paladin/Inquisitor list would probably be a lot better then wizard. Sacred Empowerment was meant to be first level.
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One thing I kind of would like to see with warpriests is a metamagic buff. Since they are capped at 6th level spells, they don't have a lot of leeway to apply metamagic (especially quicken spell). Maybe a buff that would reduce the spell level penalty for metamagic applied to harmless (such as bless, magic vestment, bull's strength) or personal (divine favor, divine power) spells. Even if it was only a -1 reduction (to a minimum +1 spell level) it would mean that they could quicken third level spells, instead of just 2nd.
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Okay. Just to get away from the Sacred Weapon thing for a bit, I'm going to bring back some suggestions for the class's other mechanics that kind of got buried under the back and forth. I'll give each topic its own post for ease of quoting and discussion. First, Craft (Cheese)'s idea for revamping Blessings:
Hey guys, I've been spending the past day or so going over and playtesting various Warpriest ideas, and I've decided to rewrite every single blessing available for the warpriest at the moment. I'm pretty happy with most of the results, save the following: I'm not really sure what to do with the Nobility or Rune blessings, so I've left them pretty much as-is. I also don't feel the current Death blessing abilities are appropriate for a Warpriest of Pharasma, but neither were the originals. Also, we still need blessings for the Scalykind and Void domains: I'm guessing those were low-priority since none of the core deities have those. I'm not sure what to do with those, either.
Spoiler:Air
Deities: Gozreh, Shelyn
Zephyr's Gift (Minor): Any ranged weapon the warpriest holds gains the quality of air. Making ranged attacks with this weapon never provokes an attack of opportunity, and the range increment of the weapon increases by 5 feet per class level.
Soaring Assault (Major): The Warpriest gains a fly speed of 60 feet with average maneuverability, and a bonus on fly skill checks equal to his class level. Whenever you succeed at a charge attack while flying, that attack deals additional electricity damage equal to your class level. This is a supernatural ability.Animal
Deities: Erastil, Gozreh
Animal Fury (Minor): The Warpriest gains 2 claw attacks or 1 bite attack (the decision is made when the ability is gained). These attacks deal appropriate damage for the warpriest's size. These are primary natural attacks that replace any similar primary natural attacks the warpriest may already have.
Call of the Wild (Major): The Warpriest gains Scent, Low-Light Vision, and Darkvision out to 60 feet (if he already possessed Darkvision, its range extends by 60 ft.). As a swift action, the Warpriest gains a +2 morale bonus to Strength or Dexterity (warpriest's choice) until the end of his turn. This bonus increases to +4 at 15th level, and +6 at 20th level.Artifice
Deities: Torag
Crafter's Wrath (Minor): The Warpriest gains a +4 morale bonus to damage rolls against constructs and objects (including damage rolls for sunder combat maneuvers). The warpriest also gains Improved Sunder as a bonus feat.
Enhance Magic (Major): As a swift action, you may activate your Sacred Weapon or Sacred Armor ability, gaining an enhancement bonus on your armor or weapon 2 points greater than otherwise. These points may be used to grant the item magic properties, as normal.Chaos
Deities: Calistria, Cayden Cailean, Desna, Gorum, Lamashtu, Rovagug
Anarchic Strike (Minor): Any weapon you hold deals an extra 1d6 points of damage against lawful creatures. This bonus damage doesn't stack with the anarchic weapon special ability.
Strike of Limitless Chaos (Major): As a swift action, the next attack you make with your weapon stuns a lawful creature it strikes, unless that creature succeeds at a will save. A Lawful Outsider takes a -4 penalty to this save. If the creature it strikes isn't Lawful, or misses, this ability does nothing and is wasted.Charm
Deities: Calistra, Cayden Cailean, Norgorber, Shelyn
Forceful Domination (Minor): As a swift action, you can issue a Command (as the spell) to 1 enemy within 30 feet. It must succeed at a will saving throw or submit for 1 round.
Charming Presence (Major): The warpriest becomes strangely mesmerizing, as the effects of a Sanctuary spell, save that if the warpriest attacks an enemy the effect is only broken towards that enemy. This is a mind-affecting effect.Community
Deities: Erastil
Communal Aid (Minor): Whenever the Warpriest uses the Aid Another action, the bonus is increased to +4.
Arrow Deflection (Major): As a swift action, you can touch a shield to give it the Arrow Deflection ability for 1 minute. In addition, any projectile or thrown weapon aimed at a target within 30 feet of the shield's bearer diverts from its original target and targets the bearer instead.Darkness
Deities: Zon-Kuthon
Enshrouding Darkness (Minor): The warpriest becomes cloaked in shadows. All attacks against him have a miss chance equal to 5% * half his class level (minimum 5%). This ability does not work in full daylight. Creatures able to see normally in supernatural darkness ignore this miss chance. This miss chance does not stack with miss chance granted from any other source, such as concealment.
Darkened Vision (Major): As a swift action, any successful attack you make with your weapon until the beginning of your next turn blinds the target as blindness/deafness for 1 minute, unless the target succeeds at a will saving throw.Death
Deities: Norgorber, Pharasma, Urgathoa, Zon-Kuthon
From the Grave (Minor): You gain a corpse-like visage, making you more intimidating and giving you undead-like protection. You gain a +4 bonus to Intimidate checks, and to Disguise checks to resemble an undead creature, as well as a +2 bonus on saving throws against disease, mind-affecting effects, paralysis, poison, and stun.
Death's Touch (Major): As a swift action when you hit an opponent with a melee attack, the target gains 1 temporary negative level for 1 minute. These temporary negative levels stack. You gain 1d6 temporary hit points when you inflict a negative level this way.Destruction
Deities: Gorum, Nethys, Rovagug, Zon-Kuthon
Destructive Attacks (Minor): As a swift action, all attacks you make with your weapon this turn gain a morale bonus to damage rolls equal to half your level (minimum 1).
Heart of Carnage (Major): The critical threat range of any weapon you hold increases by 1. This benefit is not doubled by effects such as the Improved Critical feat or the Keen weapon property, but it does stack with those effects.Earth
Deities: Gorum, Nethys
Acid Strike (Minor): As a swift action, all attacks you make with your weapon for 1 minute deals an additional 1d4 points of acid damage with each strike. This bonus damage does not stack with the corrosive weapon special ability.
Armor of Earth (Major): Your skin hardens like stone. You gain DR 3/-. If you already have DR 3/- or greater, this DR increases by 1 point, to a maximum of DR 15/-.Evil
Deities: Asmodeus, Lamashtu, Norgorber, Rovagug, Urgathoa, Zon-Kuthon
Unholy Strike (Minor): Any weapon you hold deals an extra 1d6 points of damage against good creatures. This bonus damage does not stack with the unholy weapon special ability.
Strike of Unspeakable Evil (Major): As a swift action, the next attack you make with your weapon stuns a good creature it strikes, unless that creature succeeds at a will save. A Good Outsider takes a -4 penalty to this save. If the creature it strikes isn't Good, or misses, this ability does nothing and is wasted.Fire
Deities: Asmodeus, Sarenrae
Flaming Strike (Minor): As a swift action, all attacks you make with your weapon for 1 minute deals an additional 1d4 points of fire damage with each strike. This bonus damage does not stack with the flaming or flaming burst weapon special abilities.
Armor of Flame (Major): The warpriest becomes wrapped in flames. You become under the constant effect of a Fire Shield (warm shield only). You may suppress or resume this ability as a free action.Glory
Deities: Gorum, Iomedae, Sarenrae
Glorious Presence (Minor): The Warpriest gains Intimidate as a class skill, and may add his Wisdom modifier to his Charisma modifier for the purposes of making Diplomacy and Intimidate checks.
Demoralizing Glory (Major): As a swift action when you damage an opponent with an attack, you can attempt to demoralize that opponent with the Intimidate skill, using your Warpriest level in place of your ranks in Intimidate.Good
Deities: Cayden Cailean, Desna, Erastil, Iomedae, Sarenrae, Shelyn, Torag
Holy Strike (Minor): Any weapon you hold deals an extra 1d6 points of damage against good creatures. This bonus damage does not stack with the unholy weapon special ability.
Strike of Overwhelming Good (Major): As a swift action, the next attack you make with your weapon stuns an evil creature it strikes, unless that creature succeeds at a will save. An Evil Outsider takes a -4 penalty to this save. If the creature it strikes isn't evil, or misses, this ability does nothing and is wasted.Healing
Deities: Irori, Pharasma, Sarenrae
Close Wounds (Minor): As an immediate action, one ally within 60 feet heals 1d8 points of damage for every 4 warpriest levels you possess (minimum 1d8). If this ability is used in response to that creature taking damage, the damage this ability heals is considered to be prevented. (For example, if you use this ability when an ally would be reduced to below -10 hit points, and this ability heals them above -10 hit points, that ally does not die.)
Fast Healing (Major): The Warpriest gains Fast Healing 1.Knowledge
Deities: Calistria, Irori, Nethys, Norgorber, Pharasma
Lore Keeper (Minor): Whenever you make a knowledge check to learn a creature's strengths and weaknesses, you may add your Wisdom modifier as a bonus to the check. You gain all Knowledge skills as class skills.
Monster Lore (Major): As a swift action, you may make a check against all creatures present to learn about their strengths and weaknesses (this is considered only one use of the blessing no matter how many creatures there are). You be trained in the appropriate knowledge skill to make this check. Against any creatures for which the check succeeds, you gain a +4 insight bonus on attack rolls, damage rolls, AC, and saving throws for 1 minute.Law
Deities: Abadar, Asmodeus, Erastil, Iomedae, Irori, Torag, Zon-Kuthon
Axiomatic Strike (Minor): Any weapon you hold deals an extra 1d6 points of damage against chaotic creatures. This bonus damage does not stack with the axiomatic weapon special ability.
Strike of Perfect Order (Major): As a swift action, the next attack you make with your weapon stuns a chaotic creature it strikes, unless that creature succeeds at a will save. A Chaotic Outsider takes a -4 penalty to this save. If the creature it strikes isn't Chaotic, or misses, this ability does nothing and is wasted.Liberation
Deities: Desna
Liberation (Minor): As a swift action you can ignore impediments to your mobility for 1 round, as freedom of movement. You may activate this blessing even if you're unable to take actions, but not if you are unconscious.
Freedom's Call (Major): You emit an aura of freedom. You and all allies within 30 feet become immune to the confused, dazed, grappled, frightened, panicked, paralyzed, pinned, shaken, or stunned conditions.Luck
Deities: Calistra, Desna, Shelyn
Lucky Surge (Minor): Whenever you roll an attack roll, skill check, or saving throw, as a swift action you can roll twice and take the higher result.
Unlucky Aura (Major): All enemies within 30 feet of you take a -2 luck penalty to attack rolls, skill checks, AC, and saving throws.Madness
Deities: Lamashtu
Vision of Insanity (Minor): As a swift action, you may confuse a creature within 30 feet for 1 round that fails a will save, as the spell Lesser Confusion. The creature rerolls any result except "Attack Self" or "Babble Incoherently." This is a mind-affecting ability.
Aura of Nightmares (Major): Any creature that comes within 30 feet of you gains the Shaken condition. This bypasses immunity to fear, but does not stack with any other fear effect.Magic
Deities: Asmodeus, Nethys, Urgathoa
Magical Surge (Minor): Any allied spellcaster within 10 feet of you gains a +1 bonus to their spell's caster level or saving throw DCs; The spellcaster chooses which benefit their spell gets at the time of the casting of the spell. This ability does not work on your own spells.
Eldritch Disruption (Major): As a swift action, you can select 1 creature within 30 feet: That creature loses all ability to cast spells or use its spell-like or supernatural abilities, as if it were in an antimagic field, for 1 round.Nobility
Deities: Abadar
Inspiring Word (Minor): As a swift action you can speak an inspiring word to a creature within 30 feet. The creature receives a +2 morale bonus to attack rolls, skill checks, ability checks, and saving throws for 1 round. You cannot use this ability on yourself.
Lead By Example (Major): You can inspire allies to follow your lead. If you take an action on your turn, all allies within 30 feet who take the same action on their next turn gain a +4 morale bonus to the attack roll, skill check, ability check, or saving throw to complete that action. For example, if you charge an opponent and make a melee attack, and an ally also charges an opponent and makes a melee attack, she gains a +4 morale bonus on her attack roll.Plant
Deities: Erastil, Gozreh
Entangling Vines (Minor): As a swift action, you can summon vines to entangle a creature within 60 feet for 1 round (reflex negates).
Tree Guardian (Major): By spending 10 minutes meditating beneath a tree, you can turn that tree into a Treant that serves you absolutely. You may only have one Treant at a time created this way: Creating another one turns the old one back into an ordinary tree.Protection
Deities: Abadar, Nethys, Shelyn, Torag
Increased Defense (Minor): As a swift action, you can give yourself a +1 resistance bonus to all saving throws for 1 minute. This bonus increases to +2 at 5th level, and +1 for every 5 levels after that (to a maximum of +5 at 20th level). This resistance bonus stacks with any resistance bonus to saving throws you already have.
Aura of Protection (Major): You emit a 30-foot aura that fills allies with feelings of warmth and safety. You and your allies within this aura gain a +1 deflection bonus to AC and resistance 5 against acid, cold, electricity, fire, and sonic. The deflection bonus increases to +2 at 15th level and +3 at 20th level. At 15th level, the energy resistance increases to 10.Repose
Deities: Pharasma
Gentle Rest (Minor): As a swift action, you can fill a creature within 30 feet with lethargy, causing it to be staggered for 1 round. If the creature is already staggered, it instead falls asleep for 1 round. An undead targeted by this ability is staggered for a number of rounds equal to your Wisdom modifier instead (minimum 1).
Back to the Grave (Major): You gain Turn Undead as a bonus feat, even if you don't channel positive energy, and the save DC to resist being turned is increased by your Wisdom modifier. Any undead that fails its will save by 5 or more when you use this ability is destroyed utterly.Rune
Deities: Irori, Nethys
Blast Rune (Minor): As a swift action, you can create a blast rune in any adjacent square. Any creature entering this square takes points of damage equal to 1d6 + half your class level. This rune deals either acid, cold, electricity, or fire damage, designated when the rune is created. the rune lasts a number of rounds equal to your warpriest level or until discharged. You cannot create a blast rune in a square occupied by another creature. This rune counts as a 1st-level spell for the purposes of dispelling. It can be discovered with a DC 26 perception check, and disarmed with a DC 26 Disable Device check.
Spell-Storing Weapon (Major): As a standard action, you can cast a spell into a weapon as if it had the spell storing special ability. If the stored weapon is not used within 10 minutes, it dissapates.Strength
Deities: Cayden Cailean, Gorum, Irori, Lamashtu, Urgathoa
Strength Surge (Minor): As a swift action, you gain a morale bonus equal to your class level (minimum +2) to your Strength for 1 round.
Strength of Will (Major): You can ignore the movement penalties from wearing medium and heavy armor (or carrying a medium or heavy load). You may add your Strength bonus on your saving throws against effects that would paralyze, slow, daze, or stun you.Sun
Deities: Iomedae, Sarenrae
Blinding Strike (Minor): When you strike an opponent with an attack, as a swift action you can make it glow with a flash of sunlight. If the creature struck by the attack fails a reflex saving throw, it is blinded for 1 round; otherwise, it's dazzled for 1 round. This is a light effect. Creatures with light blindness or light sensitivity take a -4 penalty on this saving throw. Sightless creatures are unaffected by this ability.
Bane of Undead (Major): Any weapon you hold gains undead-slaying weapon special ability.Travel
Deities: Abadar, Cayden Cailean, Desna
Agile Feet (Minor): You ignore all difficult terrain and take no penalties for moving through it.
Dimensional Hop (Major): As a swift action, you can use Dimension Door as a supernatural ability. At 20th level, you can instead use Greater Teleport as a supernatural ability.Trickery
Deities: Asmodeus, Calistria, Lamashtu, Norgorber
Distraction (Minor): Any foe adjacent to you is considered to be flat-footed for the purposes of all effects except your own.
Greater Invisibility (Major): As a swift action, you can turn invisible, as the spell Greater Invisibility, for 1 round.War
Deities: Gorum, Iomedae, Rovagug, Urgathoa
War Mind (Minor): You gain a bonus on all initiative checks equal to your Wisdom modifier. At 10th level, when you roll initiative, you may roll twice and take the higher result. At 20th level, you're always treated as if you rolled a natural 20 for your initiative check.
Weapon Master (Major): As a swift action, you can gain the benefits of any combat feat for 1 round, but you must meet the prerequisites of this feat.Water
Deities: Gozreh, Pharasma
Frost Strike (Minor): As a swift action, all attacks you make with your weapon for 1 minute deals an additional 1d4 points of cold damage with each strike. This bonus damage does not stack with the frost or icy burst weapon special abilities.
Armor of Ice (Major): The warpriest becomes wrapped in freezing mist. You become under the constant effect of a Fire Shield (cold shield only). You may suppress or resume this ability as a free action.Weather
Deities: Gozreh, Rovagug
Storm Strike (Minor): As a swift action, all attacks you make with your weapon for 1 minute deals an additional 1d4 points of electricity damage with each strike. This bonus damage does not stack with the shock or shocking burst weapon special abilities.
Wind Barrier (Major): The Warpriest is surrounded by a barrier of fast-moving winds. You are constantly protected by the effects of a Feather Fall and a Wind Wall, save that it doesn't interfere with your own ranged attacks.
There's some wording that could be cleared up (the major Sun blessing springs immediately to mind) and numbers that could be tweaked, but moving all the blessings to one passive ability and one swift-action activation each goes quite a way toward evening them in power, or at least making them more consistent (compare the current incarnation of Strength to current Destruction blessings, for instance).
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My own Battle Blessing swift-action casting proposal:
And the second revision:Having spent the day thinking it over, I think I have a solution to the whole "this entire class is duplicated by the inquisitor" problem that fits exactly in with its design goal and flavor.
1.) As suggested by several people upthread, move the bonus feats to 2nd level, 4th level, and every three levels thereafter to reduce frontloading and dip potential.
2.) Add this, or some variation thereof:
Battle Blessing: At 3rd level, the warpriest gains the ability to call upon his deity's blessings in the midst of battle. Once per day while making a full attack or charge, the warpriest can cast any spell he has prepared with a range of Personal and a target of You as a swift action. At 6th level, and at every three levels thereafter, the warpriest can use this ability an additional time per day, to a maximum of six times per day at 18th level.The per-day limitation and restriction to personal-range spells is to disincentivize simply preparing divine favor, divine power, shield of faith, bull's strength, and the like in every available spell slot and dropping buffs every round of combat. The levels chosen are the dead levels left by moving the feat progression around; this can easily be adjusted as appropriate by a more comprehensive reordering of the class abilities if warranted. Other means of restricting usage, such as channel energy charges or some sort of divine pool shared with Sacred Weapon/Armor as suggested above could also work.
3.) Tune other abilities as appropriate to account for the power boost this provides. Frankly, I think the focus on self-buff spells is more appropriate and thematic for a caster warpriest than Sacred Weapon and Sacred Armor, the former of which is already a signature ability of the paladin and the latter from a paladin archetype.
I don't agree that the warpriest class needs to be full BAB and half casting. I see it as aiming for a battle cleric, not a knight/paladin copy, and I aim my suggestions towards facilitating that rather than reworking the entire class into something else.
I still feel that to capture the essence of combat cleric (distinct from the actual, existing cleric class) the warpriest should capitalize on the cleric spell list's array of buffs. Having discussed it with several other people in the interim, however, I've been swayed to the need to allow a wider variety than just the self-only combat buffs, so I revise as follows:
Battle Blessing: At 3rd level, the warpriest gains the ability to call upon his deity's blessings in the midst of battle. Once per day while making a full attack or charge, the warpriest can cast any cleric spell he has prepared as a swift action provided the spell targets the warpriest, his wielded weapon, or his worn armor. At 6th level, and at every three levels thereafter, the warpriest can use this ability an additional time per day, to a maximum of six times per day at 18th level.As before, the proposed ability is timed to fill the dead levels left by moving the bonus feats to 2nd level and every three thereafter.
I'm concerned that this may go too far the other way, though. The paladin has swift action lay on hands; this guy at higher levels would have swift action heal. That could be specifically targeted by specifying that the spell chosen must be at least one spell level lower than the highest the warpriest can cast, but I worry that in the vastness of the cleric/oracle list across all the books that there may be other things that the wording would allow that would simply outshine similar abilities of other classes, and anyway it would further delay bringing the big-gun self buffs online (not to mention only allowing orisons when the ability is first gained if the timing remains the same). To clarify, I do think the warpriest should be able to self-heal in combat if we expect him to be able to fulfill the tank role with d8 hit dice and a focus on his casting stat, but the huge burst healing and debuff remover that is heal would have the effect of resetting the entire encounter with a warpriest; it would be like fighting a phoenix. Thoughts?
While I do like it (it's my idea, after all), it does suffer from adding yet another separate daily resource to track. So next we'll go to the various Divine Pool (or similar) proposals.
Goodness that sounds wrong.
But if building one I'd probably dip a level into warpriest to benefit from his mighty front load.
It's not that I want this to be. I'd rather have a balanced playable class. But right now all the Warpriest is good for is a dip. Because:
- It gives too much at first level
- Other classes fill it's intended role better
If you reduce the front load, you make dipping less attractive. But it doesn't change the fact that other classes are better at what the warpriest wants to do. (or at least they are good at warpriest stuff while giving the better packet overall.)
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OK, 800 posts and fours days since my last post. Thought I'd drop out another update. For the first 1,000 posts, the following topics were discussed:
OK - to summarize the major themes running through this thread so far (in no particular order):
1. Some people wonder why this class exists, since warpriest role is already filled quite well by the paladin, inquisitor, several varieties of oracle, and this little known class called the cleric.
2. Some people are looking for this class to be full BAB to increase it's martial ability.
3. Some people want a 1/2 BAB, armorless full caster. (moot now)
4. This class appears dependent on nearly every ability score to function (it's Multiple Ability Dependent; aka MAD). Looks like this is being addressed.
5. A few people have noted some imbalances in the Blessings, and that the mechanic as a whole could use a boost.
6. Several people don't like the class being tied to the deity's favored weapon, feeling it may limit deity to a few choices deities with "good" weapons.
7. Some people feel this class has too many abilities requiring tracking - spells, sacred weapon uses, sacred armor uses, blessings, etc.
8. Several people see the class as is as a great 1 level dip class. It's very frontloaded - it's gets a ton of stuff at 1st level.
9. There's is confusion over whether the class counts as a fighter and/or cleric for the purpose of qualifying for feats.
10. And the usual complaint about not enough skill points. :-)
And these too:
I'd add:
11. Lots of back and forth about Spell Combat; should this character be a divine gish?
12. Some talk of spontaneous casting.
13. Does the class really need Channel Energy or sixth level spells if it comes at the cost of full BAB?
14. Sacred Weapon and Sacred Armor are a little ho-hum and more or less identical to the paladin's Divine Bond sans penalty upon destruction.
15. The capstone is kind of boring.
Since then:
16. We've had nearly 800 posts of back and forth argument about the favored weapon mechanic. Much of this was not constructive, and probably unnecessary based on the blog post.
17. At least three messages from moderators warning to keep the discussion civil. Several posts deleted.
18. Some good thoughts on revising the Blessings - each Blessing discussed individually.
19. Concerns about action economy and self buffing.
20. A little solid playtest data. Hopefully repeated in the playtest forum.
Honestly, this is kind of disappointing after the first 1,000 posts. There are a few gems buried in the new 800, but honestly you'll have to wade through a ton of now unnecessary favored weapon arguments to find it.
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You know what, there's been so many suggestions for a points pool-style ability to power the warpriest's class features that I'm just going to write one myself; it'll be easier than hunting through 37 pages for them all. Except for numbers they're all fairly similar anyway. Borrowing a bit from the wording of the Arcane Pool of the magus, a rough draft:
Sacred Power (Su): At 3rd level, the warpriest gains a reservoir of divine power that he can call upon to aid him in battle. This reservoir has a number of points equal to 1/2 his warpriest level + his Wisdom modifier. As a swift action, the warpriest can cast any one warpriest spell prepared by expending one point per level of the spell, provided the spell targets the warpriest, his wielded weapon, or his worn armor. This use of the ability must be used in conjunction with a full attack or the charge action.
Alternately, as a swift action, the warpriest can spend a point from this pool to add a +1 enhancement bonus to any weapon he is holding for 1 minute. For every four levels beyond 3rd, the weapon gains another +1 enhancement bonus, to a maximum of +5 at 19th level. These bonuses can be added to the weapon, stacking with existing weapon enhancement to a maximum of +5. Multiple uses of this ability do not stack with themselves. If this ability targets the warpriest's focus weapon, the weapon gains an additional +1 enhancement bonus. At 6th level, the warpriest can imbue a weapon with any of the following weapon properties: brilliant energy, defending, disruption, flaming, frost, keen, and shock. In addition, if the warpriest is chaotic, he can add anarchic and vicious. If he is evil, he can add mighty cleaving and unholy. If he is good, he can add holy and merciful. If he is lawful, he can add axiomatic and ghost touch. Adding any of these properties consumes an amount of bonus equal to the properties base cost (see Table 15–9 of the Core Rulebook). Duplicate abilities do not stack. The weapon must have at least a +1 enhancement bonus before any other properties can be added, whether normally from itself or granted by this ability.
At 7th level, the warpriest can expend one point from the reservoir to imbue his armor with divine power for one minute as a swift action. This power grants the armor a +1 enhancement bonus. For every three levels beyond 7th, this bonus increases by +1, to a maximum of +5 at 19th level. These bonuses stack with any existing bonuses the armor might have, to a maximum of +5. The warpriest can imbue armor any of the following armor properties: energy resistance (normal, improved, and greater), fortification (heavy, light, or moderate), glamered, and spell resistance (13, 15, 17, and 19). Adding any of these properties consumes an amount of bonus equal to the properties' base cost (see Table 15–4 of the Core Rulebook). For this purpose, glamered counts as a +1, energy resistance counts as +2, improved energy resistance counts as +4, and greater energy resistance counts as +5. Duplicate abilities do not stack. The armor must have at least a +1 enhancement bonus before any other properties can be added, whether normally from itself or granted by this ability.
This ties up Sacred Weapon, Sacred Armor, and a spell action economy fix into one package; favors the deity's favored weapon without excluding other choices entirely; and gives Sacred Weapon a more useful duration. I just came up with this particular package on the fly, and the pool numbers might use some tweaking since it's default uses are so much more than Arcane Pool's, but it might be okay since Arcane Pool also fuels much of a magus's Magus Arcana. There might also be another way to scale the favored weapon than a tacked-on bonus +1, but I just wrote this up now in the post form, so I welcome other ideas. Thoughts?
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Renegade I like the way you think.
Lets make the Favored Weapon have a bit more umph in this regard.
"If this ability targets the Warpriest's Focus Weapon, the weapon gains an additional +1 enhancement bonus to a maximum of +6."
I actually really dig the thought of a completely mundane weapon becoming artifact level by sheer divine power.
The +1 Weapon Quality Grayflame should be added to this list if he keeps channel energy.
I like the feel of the Warpriest in combat growing greater and greater as the turns go on.
Looking at it from an evil standpoint I get a very "I need to snuff the flames of his faith quickly before it becomes an inferno" feel from it. And thats awesome.
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Renegade I like the way you think.
Thank you, I try. :)
Lets make the Favored Weapon have a bit more umph in this regard.
"If this ability targets the Warpriest's Focus Weapon, the weapon gains an additional +1 enhancement bonus to a maximum of +6."
I actually really dig the thought of a completely mundane weapon becoming artifact level by sheer divine power.
You know what? I like it. Contrary to the last several pages of arguing, I actually do think the class should have bonuses to the deity's favored weapon, just ones that are greater than the ones to other weapons, not ones that completely exclude other weapons. And that seems like a good and flavorful one.
The +1 Weapon Quality Grayflame should be added to this list if he keeps channel energy.
Seems good, except that's two swift actions; one to put the property on and another to activate it. I suppose one could write a clause specifying that the swift action to add grayflame also expends a channel use to charge it, but adding that kind of text-intensive description for what is otherwise a one-word entry on a list seems cumbersome. We're already swift action heavy with the class.
I like the feel of the Warpriest in combat growing greater and greater as the turns go on.
Looking at it from an evil standpoint I get a very "I need to snuff the flames of his faith quickly before it becomes an inferno" feel from it. And thats awesome.
It is, and I agree. :) The trouble is that, if the numbers in the ability stay the same, it costs a lot of points to do that. At 13th level (when he gets 5th level spells) if the warpriest wants to get his classic divine power and righteous might combo on, it costs nine points out of a pool that at that stage only has 6+WIS points in it total for the day. This might be totally acceptable from a balance standpoint (skipping out on the need to pre-buff entirely is kind of huge, and that's the sort of thing you should save for climactic encounters anyway), but it kind of cramps the style of the whole continuous powerup thing.
Actually the cost for swift action casting might need revision. I did that instinctually (and following ArmouredMonk's lead, admittedly) on the notion that quickening spells is really freaking powerful, but the pool simply doesn't have enough points in it to sustain that kind of cost; I'm fairly certain nothing the magus does costs 5 or 6 points in one go. Given that resolving all melee attacks for the round as touch attacks is two points and swift action, self-only haste is just one (!), that cost might need re-thinking. I'm not sure how to do it in a way that's fair, though; certainly using it with higher level spells is more valuable (and should therefore presumably cost more, somehow), so perhaps increasing the pool size is the way to go, or making it half the level of the spell (minimum 1)?
Well if it makes you feel better, the maximum pool of the Arcanist at 10th level is 30 points.
Perhaps a method to regain Sacred Power is in order?
Also I think you should limit the swift action cast to charges. It just feels more thematic that way.
I also feel that we're loading way too much on swift action. I'd be okay with dropping the armor bonus. It'd also reduce word count =P
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Well if it makes you feel better, the maximum pool of the Arcanist at 10th level is 30 points.
Perhaps a method to regain Sacred Power is in order?
Also I think you should limit the swift action cast to charges. It just feels more thematic that way.
I also feel that we're loading way too much on swift action. I'd be okay with dropping the armor bonus. It'd also reduce word count =P
In the first draft I was trying to keep the existing iconic abilities of the class intact. The armor bonus has the distinct advantage of costing 1 point to drop quickly as opposed to magic vestment's three, but the spell can just be put up in the morning and left all day; hour/level durations mean you really don't have an excuse to be casting it in reaction to an emergency if you're going to use it at all.
The class already loads a whole bunch on the swift action, to be honest. But then again, not all combats are one-and-done affairs. I'm thinking of the various raids on Sandpoint in Rise of the Runelords, which by design go on for several minutes in-game; complex encounters are a thing and being able to continually buff when fighting something that the party can't wipe in a couple of rounds isn't terrible.
It also forces tactical choices: What's more important right now, the AC buff, the attack/damage buff, or one of my many spells? I think that adds an interesting dimension to the game, but that might be just me.
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I like the idea of a Warpriest, and it suits the way several of my friends play their clerics. However, this is a Cleric/Fighter/Paladin, not a Cleric/Fighter.
My idea:
Drop the Sacred Weapon & Armor (getting the paladin out of here)
Give full BAB & d10HD
Give access to Weapon Spec with deity's weapon.
Allow the warpriest to cast a cleric spell on him/herself as a swift action whenever they confirm a critical hit on an enemy. To avoid giving the larger threat ranges all the love: x3 weapons the caster level is raised by +1, and x4 weapons by +2.
Move the First bonus feat to 2nd level to reduce dipping.
Actually, I'm satisfied with that Renegade. Tactical choices are at the heart of combat and the Warpriest will be making many of them. Between his class features and his spells I find this to be desirable.
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I like the idea of a Warpriest, and it suits the way several of my friends play their clerics. However, this is a Cleric/Fighter/Paladin, not a Cleric/Fighter.
My idea:
Drop the Sacred Weapon & Armor (getting the paladin out of here)
Give full BAB & d10HD
Give access to Weapon Spec with deity's weapon.
Allow the warpriest to cast a cleric spell on him/herself as a swift action whenever they confirm a critical hit on an enemy. To avoid giving the larger threat ranges all the love: x3 weapons the caster level is raised by +1, and x4 weapons by +2.
Move the First bonus feat to 2nd level to reduce dipping.
Good ideas thewhiteone. The crit range thing however, will still give high crit range weapons the advantage. A x4 crit gives at best a 10% chance to cast a spell that will last 2 rounds/minutes/hours/other duration increments longer than that of an 18-20 which will at best give a 30% chance just to get the spell off. A critical hit mechanic no matter what is done always (unfortunately) makes x4 crits fade and 18-20 crits shine*.
Random question, I'm sure, but as the class stands right now, should most every Warpriest be running straight into the Holy Vindicator prestige class? The requirements are really easy for them to meet.
Cons
- They lose a couple levels of spellcasting, which is less of a problem for them than clerics (losing 6ths, not 9ths).
- Feat requirement is a pretty unhelpful one, but right now Warpriests have more feats than they know what to reasonably do with.
Pros:
- Full BAB*
- d10 HD*
- Same good saves
- Actual class abilities that aren't just increasing flat bonuses.
*The only things that fighter has been able to lorde over you.
Here's the other little thing about the current version of Sacred Weapon/Sacred Armor. It already stacks onto your gear, up to a maximum of +5. All the higher bonuses let you do is pick up a mundane version of your deity's favored weapon and boost it to +5. As long as you can grab a +2 or +3 bonus, you're going to be fine in terms of saving money on equipment. The GP cost for a MW weapon is ~300 GP. A +3 weapon is 18,000. A +4 weapon is 32,000. You're still saving 14,000 GP compared to everyone else. Just spend that money on your armor (which is cheaper to enchant) to make up the difference from the loss of sacred armor's progression.
Besides that, the decrease is sacred weapon's potential bonus to-hit is going to be negated by your higher BAB anyway (which is on all the time).
You know what, there's been so many suggestions for a points pool-style ability to power the warpriest's class features that I'm just going to write one myself; it'll be easier than hunting through 37 pages for them all. Except for numbers they're all fairly similar anyway. Borrowing a bit from the wording of the Arcane Pool of the magus, a rough draft:
Why can you only cast a swift action spell on yourself when making a full attack or a charge attack? I get the parallels with the Magus's spell combat, but I don't think it's very fair. First, a Magus can use any spell he likes with spell combat and isn't restricted to spells cast on himself, his weapon, or his armor. Second, a Magus's spell combat doesn't take up actions (it's part of the full attack action) and just takes a -2 penalty on your attacks. They can use a swift action *and* a spell combat in the same turn. Finally, Spell Combat costs no resources (aside from provoking an AoO which Sacred Power also does), but a warpriest has to spend quite a few points to get the more powerful buffs up.
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You know what, there's been so many suggestions for a points pool-style ability to power the warpriest's class features that I'm just going to write one myself; it'll be easier than hunting through 37 pages for them all. Except for numbers they're all fairly similar anyway. Borrowing a bit from the wording of the Arcane Pool of the magus, a rough draft:Why can you only cast a swift action spell on yourself when making a full attack or a charge attack? I get the parallels with the Magus's spell combat, but I don't think it's very fair. First, a Magus can use any spell he likes with spell combat and isn't restricted to spells cast on himself, his weapon, or his armor. Second, a Magus's spell combat doesn't take up actions (it's part of the full attack action) and just takes a -2 penalty on your attacks. They can use a swift action *and* a spell combat in the same turn. Finally, Spell Combat costs no resources (aside from provoking an AoO which Sacred Power also does), but a warpriest has to spend quite a few points to get the more powerful buffs up.
Because otherwise you have free Quicken Spell and just turn into a spell battery, obviously. The very first iteration of this I wrote way back on page 4 allowed for that, and then I got taken to task for letting that slip in. :p As for the spell restrictions, that's kind of the point; the class is, per the blog, supposed to be good at buffing/healing itself, not the general spell combat of the magus. I designed my suggestion to fit with the stated design goals.
Because otherwise you have free Quicken Spell and just turn into a spell battery, obviously. The very first iteration of this I wrote way back on page 4 allowed for that, and then I got taken to task for letting that slip in. :p As for the spell restrictions, that's kind of the point; the class is, per the blog, supposed to be good at buffing/healing itself, not the general spell combat of the magus. I designed my suggestion to fit with the stated design goals.
Indeed, and I don't disagree with that, but as-written, I believe the ability has too many limits: It is simply strictly worse than a Magus at the "Buff myself then go to town" shtick that the Warpriest is supposed to be best at. Here are some ideas:
- Ditch the restriction on requiring it to be part of a full attack or a charge.
- Keep that restriction, but make it a once per round free action that doesn't provoke an attack of opportunity instead of a swift action, and specify that the spell goes into effect before the full attack/charge is made.
- Lower the cost to 1 point from the sacred pool, regardless of the spell level used.
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I just second the notions to make the Warpriest a Full BAB, d10 HD class. Alignments other than LG and CE are lacking in the divine warrior department.
A question is if the class really needs to have the spellcasting. Wouldn't it be better if the class only offered Domain-like powers and channel energy?
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I just second the notions to make the Warpriest a Full BAB, d10 HD class. Alignments other than LG and CE are lacking in the divine warrior department.
A question is if the class really needs to have the spellcasting. Wouldn't it be better if the class only offered Domain-like powers and channel energy?
If the warpriest evolves into a spell-less/lite Full BAB holy warrior class that had some divine perks like the Domain-likes and such, I'll be all over it so much that people could take incriminating photos.
If the warpriest evolves into a spell-less/lite Full BAB holy warrior class that had some divine perks like the Domain-likes and such, I'll be all over it so much that people could take incriminating photos.
Meh, I could only get excited about that if it had something really compelling to replace spellcasting, like maybe Sanctified Champion Supplications or Divine Invocations. And considering how they don't even want to give each class a unique spell list due to page space concerns, we've got about a snowball's chance in hell of seeing that.
I just second the notions to make the Warpriest a Full BAB, d10 HD class. Alignments other than LG and CE are lacking in the divine warrior department.
A question is if the class really needs to have the spellcasting. Wouldn't it be better if the class only offered Domain-like powers and channel energy?
I really like the versatility of game play by having a spell list. I think my interest in the class would evaporate if spells were gone.
Mikaze: Indeed, there is a ton of half and quarter casting clases and if Cleric isalready a full caster with 2/3 BAB, weapons and armour, then making another caster with armour and weapons with a little more abilities, a little less casting, the same BAB and HD the only makes it invade Inquisitor's territory. Druid and nature divine spin has received it's own inquisitor-like spin in the Hunter, and the Ranger is a warrior class. Divine servants of the gods on the other hand already have the Cleric and the Inquisitor...
Edit: 4 levels of cleric spells would be bearable, if not exactly hyper-useful. A class feature saying that you cna use items like you were a cleric of your levels could also help a bit.
Judging by SKR's post here the Warpriest is intended to help cover two different concepts, which at least partially overlap:
A. A more martial Cleric.
B. An Paladin without alignment restrictions, or possibly a paladin with an alignment restriction but is not limited to Lawful Good.
One possibility could be to leave the baseline Warpriest as a 3/4th progression class but create an archetype that lowers spellcasting to 4th level but gains full base attack progression and a D10 hit dice... My main concern would be that the archetype would be a very significant alteration to the base class. Are there any archetypes that alter or improve bab progression?
One possibility could be to leave the baseline Warpriest as a 3/4th progression class but create an archetype that lowers spellcasting to 4th level but gains full base attack progression and a D10 hit dice... My main concern would be that the archetype would be a very significant alteration to the base class. Are there any archetypes that alter or improve bab progression?
None that are first party. There are a couple of third-party archetypes that do so though, like the Theosophist.
(If I wanted a Paladin-of-any-Alignment though I'd go for importing the Crusader. Maybe we can get a Warlord archetype...)
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I know. It just seems that this one is equally in need, but the focus has been over there.
My main issue is that we know pretty clearly where the troubled issues are, but nearly nothing about what we can expect to have done about them, which kind of puts me on hold for any further playtesting I'm wanting to do, and the deadline is coming up.
Not really complaining, just explaining.
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I know. It just seems that this one is equally in need, but the focus has been over there.
My main issue is that we know pretty clearly where the troubled issues are, but nearly nothing about what we can expect to have done about them, which kind of puts me on hold for any further playtesting I'm wanting to do, and the deadline is coming up.
Not really complaining, just explaining.
Although I'm advocating for a fairly substantial change with making the blessings be mystery based vs domain based, I don't think this class "needs" anywhere near as much work as the arcanist in terms of being a potential problem in the game.
Worst case, this class is mediocre to weak, but on the whole harmless to the game writ large.
Worst case arcanist we spent the next few years facepalming.
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Revision, accounting for suggestions from Craft (Cheese) and Psyren, bringing the swift casting function more into line with the power level of Spell Combat while retaining a separate mechanic, and further enhancing the favored weapon:
Sacred Power (Su): At 3rd level, the warpriest gains a reservoir of divine power that he can call upon to aid him in battle. This reservoir has a number of points equal to 1/2 his warpriest level + his Wisdom modifier. Once per round as a free action, the warpriest can cast any one warpriest spell prepared with a casting time of one standard action or less by expending one point per two levels of the spell (minimum 1), provided the spell targets the warpriest, his wielded weapon, or his worn armor. This does not provoke an attack of opportunity. This use of the ability must be used in conjunction with a full attack or the charge action, and occurs at the beginning of the warpriest's turn.
Alternately, as a swift action, the warpriest can spend a point from this pool to add a +1 enhancement bonus to any weapon he is holding for 1 minute. For every four levels beyond 3rd, the weapon gains another +1 enhancement bonus, to a maximum of +5 at 19th level. These bonuses can be added to the weapon, stacking with existing weapon enhancement to a maximum of +5. Multiple uses of this ability do not stack with themselves. If this ability targets the warpriest's focus weapon, the weapon gains an additional +1 enhancement bonus, adding another +1 enhancement bonus for every three levels beyond 3rd, to a maximum of +7 at 18th level. This stacks with existing weapon enhancements on a focus weapon to a maximum of +7. At 6th level, the warpriest can imbue a weapon with any of the following weapon properties: brilliant energy, defending, disruption, flaming, frost, keen, and shock. In addition, if the warpriest is chaotic, he can add anarchic and vicious. If he is evil, he can add mighty cleaving and unholy. If he is good, he can add holy and merciful. If he is lawful, he can add axiomatic and ghost touch. Adding any of these properties consumes an amount of bonus equal to the properties base cost (see Table 15–9 of the Core Rulebook). Duplicate abilities do not stack. The weapon must have at least a +1 enhancement bonus before any other properties can be added, whether normally from itself or granted by this ability.
At 7th level, the warpriest can expend one point from the reservoir to imbue his armor with divine power for one minute as a swift action. This power grants the armor a +1 enhancement bonus. For every three levels beyond 7th, this bonus increases by +1, to a maximum of +5 at 19th level. These bonuses stack with any existing bonuses the armor might have, to a maximum of +5. The warpriest can imbue armor any of the following armor properties: energy resistance (normal, improved, and greater), fortification (heavy, light, or moderate), glamered, and spell resistance (13, 15, 17, and 19). Adding any of these properties consumes an amount of bonus equal to the properties' base cost (see Table 15–4 of the Core Rulebook). For this purpose, glamered counts as a +1, energy resistance counts as +2, improved energy resistance counts as +4, and greater energy resistance counts as +5. Duplicate abilities do not stack. The armor must have at least a +1 enhancement bonus before any other properties can be added, whether normally from itself or granted by this ability.
And yes, I do realize that this makes the warpriest, at high levels, able to just pick up a completely mundane example of his deity's favored weapon and boost it to artifact levels of power. I'm fine with that, considering what else they lose out on at high levels with only six level casting. The scaling mechanic for focus weapons might be a little borked, but numbers are easier to tweak than the base mechanic they're attached to. Ideas always welcome; I'd like us to have something useful for the devs to consider when they get back on Monday. :)
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I'll agree to disagree, but I'm not really wanting to have an argument on something here not really related to the Warpriest Playtest. :)
Don't get me wrong, I want this class to work. I wouldn't have put literally over an hour into working out the logistics on the suggestions to make it work. This is the class I'm most likely to play out of all 10.
I hope they are working on this behind the scenes and all that.
But if you read the blog, they heard the feedback, they know where they want to go, they just need to decide how to get there.
I think two of these classes are not for me or my group, and that is fine. Worst case the warpriest is not for me or my group, and that is fine.
But if they mess up the arcanist, that is the kind of thing that gets gamebreaking in the way 3.5 at the end you had to start banning books without GM approval if you wanted half of the core classes to be in the game.
The current warpriest is not strong enough offensively late and to much of a dip class early. But they know that. They said they know that and agree and are working on that.
Which is the key, IMHO.
Revision, accounting for suggestions from Craft (Cheese) and Psyren, bringing the swift casting function more into line with the power level of Spell Combat while retaining a separate mechanic, and further enhancing the favored weapon...
I love it. Much better than before. Two things though.
- You should specify that the ability to free action cast spells only works with spells with a casting time of 1 standard action or less, lest we see Spellguard of Silverymoon shenanigans all over again.
- Since you're going to be using this ability while in melee often, you should add a line saying that the casting doesn't provoke an AoO. This gives the ability a significant advantage over spell combat, but I believe is balanced by the limited nature of the spells you can cast.
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Judging by SKR's post here the Warpriest is intended to help cover two different concepts, which at least partially overlap:
A. A more martial Cleric.
B. An Paladin without alignment restrictions, or possibly a paladin with an alignment restriction but is not limited to Lawful Good.
One possibility could be to leave the baseline Warpriest as a 3/4th progression class but create an archetype that lowers spellcasting to 4th level but gains full base attack progression and a D10 hit dice... My main concern would be that the archetype would be a very significant alteration to the base class. Are there any archetypes that alter or improve bab progression?
It would be awfully difficult to change attack progression and spell allocation in a archetype.
I don't think they are interested in another Full BaB divine caster. A better chance would be you might get a Paladin Archetype that didn't have alignment restrictions.
It would be awfully difficult to change attack progression and spell allocation in a archetype.
I dunno, like I said, 3rd party archetypes do it just fine.
I don't think they are interested in another Full BaB divine caster. A better chance would be you might get a Paladin Archetype that didn't have alignment restrictions.
I'd rather see alternate classes that are counterparts to the Paladin of Freedom and Tyranny, like what the Antipaladin is to the Paladin of Slaughter.
It would be awfully difficult to change attack progression and spell allocation in a archetype.
I don't think they are interested in another Full BaB divine caster. A better chance would be you might get a Paladin Archetype that didn't have alignment restrictions.
The battle sorcerer was popular in 3e without being the universal choice.