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| 3 people marked this as FAQ candidate. |
Recently I had this come up and I was hoping for some clarification.
Level 6 Wizard casts hypnotic pattern, let's say he gets up to affecting 11 HD. There are two targets with 6 HD each in the radius of the spell. The first target makes the will save. Does that count against the 11 HD he has for targets? I would think it would, but the mage player is claiming it doesn't.
Edit: Also, if anyone knows where this is stated in the rulebook, that'd be helpful. The party is likely to ask.
I think you're right, but can't find any rule explicitly saying so.
So your player feels that he should get 'free' attempts at effect creatures with Hit Dice? First off let the player know how silly s/he sounds.
A good example that is similar in the situation is this.
Fighter who missed on his first hit and says 'That didn't count. I failed to hit them, let me attack another AGAIN til I succeed.'
Right in the spell description.
Edit : I was a bit too hasty, in fact this isn't the exact textual rule that I thought it was. My example need 'another' in it to be roughly the same.
The edit was unnecessary, the Wizard didn't have enough total amount of Hit Dice to effect two six hit dice worth of creatures.
I agree with the player. The spell attempts to affect the first 6HD enemy but if it makes it's save, it is not affected, therefore the spell continues to attempt to affect something by moving on the the next 6HD enemy.
The way I read it is, the spell says affected creatures become fascinated.
Using logic, if a creature is affected, it becomes fascinated. Therefore, if a creature does not become fascinated, it is not affected.
If a creature is not affected, it doesn't take away from the number of HD the spell can affect and if there are still valid HD creatures in the area, the spell attempts to affect them until it runs out of targets or runs out of HD it can affect.
You determine who the spell "can" affect first following the guidelines listed within the spell description. That's where the HD limitation comes into play. Then, those that "can" be affected get to make their Will saves. The targets who "can" be affected doesn't change after the spell is cast. I put the text from the PRD about spell results below. I hope that helps.
The Spell's Result
Once you know which creatures (or objects or areas) are affected, and whether those creatures have made successful saving throws (if any were allowed), you can apply whatever results a spell entails.
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Right, I understand that HD that are not sufficient to affect a creature is wasted. My issue is, his interpretation says that it doesn't count against the HD until it actually affects a creature. So if there's the two level 6 fighters, and the first one saves, he argues that he would still have 11 HD and then the second one would have to make a save. I am of the opinion that it does not work that way, for exactly the reason you stated, it'd be incredibly silly. But I'm trying to prove it, just because it doesn't say in the spell description that it works the way I'm sure it does.
Edit: Peachbottom and Dosgamer's posts came in as I was typing mine in. I'm trying to get the clarfication because as the player and Peachbottom are interpreting it, it seems incredibly OP, as you would keep getting to affect creatures in the radius until you find 11 HD of creatures that fail saves.
Thank you Dosgamer, this clears up that nagging feeling I feel that BTLOTM, VRMH, Partyrico, and myself were having about there not being a explicate rule.
Peachbottom, I feel that your interpretation is wrong. Your bolded sentence is the mechanical benefit for the caster for all who failed their save. It has no bearing to do with the caster's total Hit Dice limit.
Dosgamer's explanation is sufficient and leaves little to nit pick at.
Edit : Spelling is hard guys and gals.
I'm probably just playing devil's advocate but I still disagree. I read it as it affects creatures from lower to higher HD in order, that you resolve each creature one at a time until the spell affects the total HD it can affect.
Using the above example, so if it can affect 11HD, let's say:
2 HD - passes. 11 HD remaining
2 HD - fails. 9 HD remaining
2 HD - passes. 9 HD remaining
2 HD - passes. 9 HD remaining
3 HD - fails. 6 HD remaining
5 HD - fails. 1 HD remainng
5 HD - too many HD to affect, spell ends
I could be wrong, but that's how I read it. But to each his own. If you feel targeting ends before determining if the creature is actually affected or not, and that works for your group, use it.
I think both conclusions have validation.
Peachbottom is nearly right.
Leave out that "passes" option, whatever that means and it´s a fit.
In the area of the spell, low HD creatures get affected first, then going to higher HD creatures. For being affected it does not matter if they make their save or not.