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In discussing a recent game where I allowed a teleport into an anti-life shell, I was told that should not have worked as the PC was "entering" the area of the shell. The spell defines the shell as a "a mobile, hemispherical energy field that prevents the entrance of most types of living creatures." I always interpreted that as "entering" as trying to move across the energy field. As a hemisphere, a critter with burrow could always go under it, for example, so why would a teleport not work?
You are assuming that the hemisphere is a plane, and not filling the entire area. I mean, technically, a hemisphere is a 3-D object with volume, not just the outer bounds of that object as you're assuming.
In either case, the GM is correct, because there's no clear rule on it in the spell description itself.
Good question. The energy field of anti-life shell is described as hemispherical so it's not a barrier effect you can teleport past. It's anti-life all the way to the core, so to speak. Does teleporting inside the hemisphere count as entering it? Probably but I'm not sure.
The point of the spell is to keep people away. At that high level if teleport bypassed it, the spell would not be good at all since PC and NPC's to include monsters often have the ability to teleport.
Interesting. For some reason I thought it was a "shell" not a volume. I don't believe it would have changed the fight as the Anti-Magic Field would have killed it (along with the more troubleing "Fickle winds") on the next round. But the "volume" thing is good to know. Would that ruling stand in PFS?
It's called a "shell" in it's name but described as "hemispherical" in the spell description. The dictionary definition for hemispherical is half of a sphere, and a sphere has volume. Which they meant is open to interpretation <shrug>. I suppose it could be argued that it's a shell since it would be rather uncomfortable to be the caster in the center of such a field :-)
By people I mean living creatures and PFS would allow the caster to be protected. :)
A sphere does not have volume, only area. A ball has volume. This is consistent with the term "shell" used for the spell.
A sphere does not have volume, only area. A ball has volume. This is consistent with the term "shell" used for the spell.
Agreed - you can tunnel under it, or teleport within it. Of course - only so many people will fit inside, and a druid can be a rough person to melee with.
See. I think I am in more agreement with Seebs. Without getting into complicated emination issues, for me it simply comes down to the fact that it is described as a hemispherical shell that prevents entry. If if was not ment to be a shell and instead be a volume would not the spell be better named as Antilife Field (simlar to Antimagic Field, and include similar languge about the spells Area?) And why make it a hemisphere shell if you are not ment to be able to go under it?
I am back to thinking I ruled correctly. Convice me otherwise again. Maybe we need to FAQ this one?
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See. I think I am in more agreement with Seebs. Without getting into complicated emination issues, for me it simply comes down to the fact that it is described as a hemispherical shell that prevents entry. If if was not ment to be a shell and instead be a volume would not the spell be better named as Antilife Field (simlar to Antimagic Field, and include similar languge about the spells Area?) And why make it a hemisphere shell if you are not ment to be able to go under it?
I am back to thinking I ruled correctly. Convice me otherwise again. Maybe we need to FAQ this one?
The spell is an emanation so it has to be 3d. It just happens to take the form of a half circle. It is not so much a solid object as it is energy, much like protect from evil that stops summoned creatures from touching you.
You are not allowed to occupy the same space as that emanation, and if you try to burrow you will still run into the emanation once you reach above ground.
Now if it was like the domed version of Ice where it created an outer shell, but the inside was empty then it would work but it is not a solid object with an empty interior. It is not an object at all.
A hemisphere only means a half circle. It does does not default to an empty shell, and going back to the emanations:
Burst, Emanation, or Spread: Most spells that affect an area function as a burst, an emanation, or a spread. In each case, you select the spell's point of origin and measure its effect from that point.
A burst spell affects whatever it catches in its area, including creatures that you can't see. It can't affect creatures with total cover from its point of origin (in other words, its effects don't extend around corners). The default shape for a burst effect is a sphere, but some burst spells are specifically described as cone-shaped. A burst's area defines how far from the point of origin the spell's effect extends.
An emanation spell functions like a burst spell, except that the effect continues to radiate from the point of origin for the duration of the spell. Most emanations are cones or spheres.
It is radiating energy the center to the outer edge, much like invisibility purge.
In short emanation are AoE spells by the book so the entire area is affected.
edit:
The earth is divided into to hemispheres
hemisphere
A half of a symmetrical, approximately spherical object as divided by a plane of symmetry.
sphere (sfr)
n.
1. Mathematics A three-dimensional surface, all points of which are equidistant from a fixed point.
So all you did was cut the 3d object's volume in half. That does not mean it is no longer a 3d measurement. Go cut an apple in half, and it is still has volume.
See. I think I am in more agreement with Seebs. Without getting into complicated emination issues, for me it simply comes down to the fact that it is described as a hemispherical shell that prevents entry. If if was not ment to be a shell and instead be a volume would not the spell be better named as Antilife Field (simlar to Antimagic Field, and include similar languge about the spells Area?) And why make it a hemisphere shell if you are not ment to be able to go under it?
I am back to thinking I ruled correctly. Convice me otherwise again. Maybe we need to FAQ this one?
The spell is an emanation so it has to be 3d. It just happens to take the form of a half circle. It is not so much a solid object as it is energy, much like protect from evil that stops summoned creatures from touching you.
You are not allowed to occupy the same space as that emanation, and if you try to burrow you will still run into the emanation once you reach above ground.
Now if it was like the domed version of Ice where it created an outer shell, but the inside was empty then it would work but it is not a solid object with an empty interior. It is not an object at all.
A hemisphere only means a half circle. It does does not default to an empty shell, and going back to the emanations:
...Burst, Emanation, or Spread: Most spells that affect an area function as a burst, an emanation, or a spread. In each case, you select the spell's point of origin and measure its effect from that point.
A burst spell affects whatever it catches in its area, including creatures that you can't see. It can't affect creatures with total cover from its point of origin (in other words, its effects don't extend around corners). The default shape for a burst effect is a sphere, but some burst spells are specifically described as cone-shaped. A burst's area defines how far from the point of origin the spell's effect extends.
An emanation spell functions like a burst spell, except that the
Your dictionary quote supports the shell argument, not the volume argument. A sphere is a three-dimensional surface. It is not the area enclosed by that surface. That is specifically defined as a ball, just as a circle is the outer perimeter and a disk is the area enclosed.
I tend to think of the rules as descriptive and not rigid definitions. Taking them literally can get you into a mess of contradictions.
I feel the same actually, which is why I feel the spell, which is described as a "Shell" and a "Barrier" that "hedges out" and "prevents entrance", won't do more than it says. Nothing mathematical about it, other than correcting the definition of a hemisphere.
Got it. So, either the words "sphere" and "ball" are either off-limits for rules text or have to be redundantly defined each time they are used? Frankly, I'd hope that the writers could assume that the reader was familiar with elementary school shape definitions.
The rules are schizophrenic. Some of them are meant to be taken descriptively, and some are meant to be taken literally. When asked to clarify which are which, well, ... Good luck with that one.
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Did everyone ignore Wraithstrike? I'd read his post again and look at the wording on Emanations. Makes it pretty clear that its everything between the caster and the edge of the spell.
Components V, S, DF
Casting Time 1 round
Range 10 ft.
Area 10-ft.-radius emanation, centered on you
Duration 1 min./level (D)
Saving Throw none; Spell Resistance yes
You bring into being a mobile, hemispherical energy field that prevents the entrance of most types of living creatures.
The effect hedges out animals, aberrations, dragons, fey, giants, humanoids, magical beasts, monstrous humanoids, oozes, plants, and vermin, but not constructs, elementals, outsiders, or undead.
This spell may be used only defensively, not aggressively. Forcing an abjuration barrier against creatures that the spell keeps at bay collapses the barrier.
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S, M/DF (pinch of powdered iron or iron filings)
Range 10 ft.
Area 10-ft.-radius emanation, centered on you
Duration 10 min./level (D)
Saving Throw none; Spell Resistance see text
An invisible barrier surrounds you and moves with you. The space within this barrier is impervious to most magical effects, including spells, spell-like abilities, and supernatural abilities. Likewise, it prevents the functioning of any magic items or spells within its confines.
An antimagic field suppresses any spell or magical effect used within, brought into, or cast into the area, but does not dispel it.
Time spent within an antimagic field counts against the suppressed spell’s duration.
Summoned creatures of any type and incorporeal undead wink out if they enter an antimagic field. They reappear in the same spot once the field goes away. Time spent winked out counts normally against the duration of the conjuration that is maintaining the creature. If you cast antimagic field in an area occupied by a summoned creature that has spell resistance, you must make a caster level check (1d20 + caster level) against the creature’s spell resistance to make it wink out. (The effects of instantaneous conjurations are not affected by an antimagic field because the conjuration itself is no longer in effect, only its result.)
A normal creature can enter the area, as can normal missiles. Furthermore, while a magic sword does not function magically within the area, it is still a sword (and a masterwork sword at that). The spell has no effect on golems and other constructs that are imbued with magic during their creation process and are thereafter self-supporting (unless they have been summoned, in which case they are treated like any other summoned creatures). Elementals, corporeal undead, and outsiders are likewise unaffected unless summoned. These creatures’ spell-like or supernatural abilities may be temporarily nullified by the field. Dispel magic does not remove the field.
Two or more antimagic fields sharing any of the same space have no effect on each other. Certain spells, such as wall of force, prismatic sphere, and prismatic wall, remain unaffected by antimagic field. Artifacts and deities are unaffected by mortal magic such as this.
Should a creature be larger than the area enclosed by the barrier, any part of it that lies outside the barrier is unaffected by the field.
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S, DF
Range 10 ft.
Area 10-ft.-radius emanation, centered on you
Duration 1 min./level (D)
Saving Throw none; Spell Resistance yes
The antiplant shell spell creates an invisible, mobile barrier that keeps all creatures within the shell protected from attacks by plant creatures or animated plants. As with many abjuration spells, forcing the barrier against creatures that the spell keeps at bay strains and collapses the field.
All are 10' radius emanations. Here is the diagram (CRB p215):
_ _ _ _ _ _
_ _ X X _ _
_ X X,X X _
_ X X X X _
_ _ X X _ _
_ _ _ _ _ _
They center on the intersection (the comma in the pic), where you clearly cannot stand. This is a problem. Do you shift the field 2.5' up and over so it centers on your square, or do you increase the radius by that much? I vote the latter.
I agree with Wraithstrike that the entire volume is affected, however, I think the effect of the two "shell" spells is a surface barrier due to words like "entrance", "hedges out", and "barrier" in the antilife shell, and words like "barrier" in the antiplant spell, but "within", "brought into", and "cast into" for antimagic field.
Lastly, note that an antiplant field does not prevent a plant creature from starting in the field, but does prevent it from attacking. How that works is another matter. :-)
/cevah
Did everyone ignore Wraithstrike? I'd read his post again and look at the wording on Emanations. Makes it pretty clear that its everything between the caster and the edge of the spell.
he lost me at 3 dimensional surface, then claiming a surface is a solid.
however the emanation point is really the important on in my opinion.
of course simply standardizing the formatting of spells and terms then enforcing that standardization across all spells would help.
I saw the thing about emanations, I just think that it's almost certainly an oversight rather than an intended meaning, because otherwise the spell description makes no sense.
That somewhat makes all emanations funky dontcha think? Why reference the area type of the spell if you weren't going to use it?
...See. I think I am in more agreement with Seebs. Without getting into complicated emination issues, for me it simply comes down to the fact that it is described as a hemispherical shell that prevents entry. If if was not ment to be a shell and instead be a volume would not the spell be better named as Antilife Field (simlar to Antimagic Field, and include similar languge about the spells Area?) And why make it a hemisphere shell if you are not ment to be able to go under it?
I am back to thinking I ruled correctly. Convice me otherwise again. Maybe we need to FAQ this one?
The spell is an emanation so it has to be 3d. It just happens to take the form of a half circle. It is not so much a solid object as it is energy, much like protect from evil that stops summoned creatures from touching you.
You are not allowed to occupy the same space as that emanation, and if you try to burrow you will still run into the emanation once you reach above ground.
Now if it was like the domed version of Ice where it created an outer shell, but the inside was empty then it would work but it is not a solid object with an empty interior. It is not an object at all.
A hemisphere only means a half circle. It does does not default to an empty shell, and going back to the emanations:
Burst, Emanation, or Spread: Most spells that affect an area function as a burst, an emanation, or a spread. In each case, you select the spell's point of origin and measure its effect from that point.
A burst spell affects whatever it catches in its area, including creatures that you can't see. It can't affect creatures with total cover from its point of origin (in other words, its effects don't extend around corners). The default shape for a burst effect is a sphere, but some burst spells are specifically described as cone-shaped. A burst's area defines how far from the point of origin the spell's effect extends.
An emanation spell functions like a
An emanation takes up an area by the rules. This spell has no rules exception to say otherwise.
Going in another direction... what about just using a Large reach weapon? A nice 20' spear, for example. Anti-Life Shell only has a 10' radius. The spear isn't alive. The living attacked stands 15' away from the caster and pokes her with the spear.
The living creature is not entering the area so I think that would work.