Q1) Is an undead/necro themed caster functional for high end (L13+) play?
[I.E. Do undead minions and Necromancy spells keep pace when common foes become high CR Planar beings, older ages of dragons, high level Paladins/Barbarians that can deal hundreds of damage a round, literal armies, and other casters that can enter god mode, etc]
Q2) Either way, what's the most effective class for that sort of build?
[I.E Cleric or Oracle? Wizard or Sorc? Etc.]
Q3) What's the most effective way to play that out?
[I.E. Use lots of minions? Use the death spells with divination for scry and die? Any "must have" spells/items/feats (esp. from newer books)?]
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Q1) Is an undead/necro themed caster functional for high end (L13+) play?
[I.E. Do undead minions and Necromancy spells keep pace when common foes become high CR Planar beings, older ages of dragons, high level Paladins/Barbarians that can deal hundreds of damage a round, literal armies, and other casters that can enter god mode, etc]
Absolutely! Powerful monsters, once slain, become powerful undead minions. Unless your campaign involves fighting incorporeal foes very frequently, your minions will grow in power along with the opposition you face.
Q2) Either way, what's the most effective class for that sort of build?
[I.E Cleric or Oracle? Wizard or Sorc? Etc.
Any of those will work nicely, each with their own upsides and downsides. The Cleric/Oracle learns the animate dead spell somwhat earlier and gets the "desecrate" spell, while the Wizard and Sorcerer get the useful "command undead" spell. With that said, the best options for minion-mancers are also somewhat controversial rules-wise.
Presuming an extremely lenient GM, the best option would be an Aasimar Sorcerer (any bloodline)/Oracle (Juju Mystery) Mystic Theurge. You qualify for Mystic Theurge as an Oracle 4 / Sorcerer 1, using the spell-like ability of the Aasimar to fulfill the arcane spellcasting prerequisite. You use the "spirit vessels" revelation to allow you to control 6 HD per caster level instead of 4 HD. You then use the "experimental spellcaster" feat twice to learn the "undeath" word of power for both Sorcerer and Oracle.
The Oracle and Sorcerer caster levels count separately when determining your maximum number of undead, and (presuming a favorable ruling from your GM) the animate dead and undeath word also count separately. This gives you four separate HD caps that you can fill up by using both versions of the spell on both of your classes.
Of course, this depends on five things: your GM allowing you to play an unusual race like Aasimar, allow the explicitly-optional experimental spellcaster feat, allowing the Juju mystery (it comes from a fairly obscure Paizo source), allowing the early-qualification for prestige classes with spell-like abilities, and on top of this you need a favorable ruling on the vaguely-worded undeath word of power. Some GMs might flatly say "no, no, no, no, and no".
Q3) What's the most effective way to play that out?
[I.E. Use lots of minions? Use the death spells with divination for scry and die? Any "must have" spells/items/feats (esp. from newer books)?]
One of the best things about minion-mancers is that you're still a primary-caster. Aside from a couple of spells known and maybe a few feats, it's actually a very small portion of your overall character build that has to go towards this specialty. You still have fully-developed spellcasting capabilities in other respects, and that versatility is what makes a minion-mancer so appealing. You don't need to be over-specialized to do it very effectively.
((everything you wrote))
First off, Thanks for the great reply.
I've been playing a low magic/gritty fantasy (Start Level 2, end Level 6)game for like 2 months now so my system mastery took a dive at the same time I decided to play something I haven't done since 3-3.5, a high level Necromancer. I need the help at the moment. ;)
I've been rereading Order of the Stick lately, while I'm not keen on going Lich I've been thinking it'd be fun to play something like Xykon's pro-Undead attitude.
Follow up question...
At higher levels, esp. with minions, any good specific counters to high level Paladins and the like, the classes with specific anti-Undead powers?
Follow up statement...
JuJu would be out, has to come from Core, APG, ARG, or the "Ultimate" line of books [No limits from within those though, except only published stuff to start with... no custom races, or custom magic items or spells created pre-game, even if rules to do so are in those books].
If in combat with a high level Cleric, the first action should be to Shatter/Sunder their Holy Symbol. No nasty Anti-Undead Channeling (or even Spellcasting) from them! I don't know if this would work with Paladins as well.
And if your GM allows the idea that Word of Undeath and Animate Dead form different Hit Dice Pools, then he is insane!
I've been playing a low magic/gritty fantasy (Start Level 2, end Level 6)game for like 2 months now
If you're looking at the level 2-6 range again in your next game, then getting the ball rolling early is preferable. Animate Dead only appears at level 5 - earliest - and you probably want to start building up minions substantially earlier than that. Even with early qualification, Mystic Theurge will take way long to get rolling. Go with a single-class character, and focus on making practical compromises.
The Cleric is the most straightforward for this purpose. He can take the "command undead" feat at the 1st level, and he obtains the "animate dead" spell earlier than any other class, at the 5th level. The problem is that he's entirely barren in the intervening levels. This makes him very useful as a baseline for low-level minion-mancers, though.
The Oracle is just straight out of the running. You need the animate dead spell, the desecrate spell, and the remove paralysis spell (prerequisite for "fast zombies"). Oh, and you'll probably want both inflict and cure spells so you can heal both your living and undead allies. That's just way too much of a spell known overhead for a spontaneous caster at low levels, even if you can grab one as a mystery spell. On top of this, you're a level behind the cleric and you need to sink a precious revelation to get the command undead ability. At low levels, go with the Cleric.
The Sorcerer and Wizard just won't get the animate dead spell in a low-level game, but they have a superb tool at their disposal: the command undead spell. For a spontaneous caster like a Sorcerer, this allows you to turn an undead-heavy encounter into a recruiting session. There's no HD cap, and if you're willing to play risky you can even attempt to capture free-willed undead. Wizards can play a necromancer and get the command undead feat on top of this, but their lack of spontaneity means they often can't take full-advantage of an undead-heavy scenario. Arcane minion-mancers can't create their own minions at these levels, but they're top-notch at recruiting them.
A couple other things to cover:
1) Lesser Animate Dead is a bad spell. You cannot create variant undead, so you're paying full-price for a reduced-power minion. Because they're weaker, they'll die more often and you'll end up paying more money to replace them. Unless you're sitting on top of a limitless supply of onyx, this is just too costly to be practical.
2) The Undead Lord cleric archetype is terrible. The HD limit on his corpse companion is extremely restrictive, so the undead he creates is quite weak. With a whopping 8 hour ritual to replace his corpse companion, and you're looking at a class feature that's so inconvenient you won't actually end up using it.
3) you want to investigate the "undeath" word of power. The word is unfortunately ambiguous as to how it interacts with the actual animate dead spell and other rules that specifically reference the animate dead spell. However, it has two big upsides: its spell level is one lower than animate dead, and it costs no material components. Its only explicit downsides are that it is single-target and you need to sink a feat to learn it. Depending on your GM's ruling, however, it may have another serious downside: it's not clear whether it can create variant undead like fast zombies or bloody skeletons, and the inability to do so is a pretty big strike against it.
At higher levels, esp. with minions, any good specific counters to high level Paladins and the like, the classes with specific anti-Undead powers?
Not much you can do about it, other than the conventional "kill him before he kills you" approach. Honestly, if a martial character is attacking your minions instead of you it's probably working in your favor.
Your biggest threat is other spellcasters trying to steal your minions away from you. A Paladin who uses a class feature to kill an undead minion may be able to dish out a lot of damage, but that's damage that isn't being dealt against you. A wizard who steals control of a powerful monster can swing the battle far more quickly and decisively. It's basically the same strength of a minion-mancer working against him; you don't need a bunch of convoluted feats or a special build to pull it off. Any full caster is a massive threat.
I've been rereading Order of the Stick lately, while I'm not keen on going Lich I've been thinking it'd be fun to play something like Xykon's pro-Undead attitude.
The evil characters in OOTS make frequent use of intelligent undead. This is very risky if your GM is the vindictive type, since you don't have the same level of total control you have over mindless undead. I prefer mindless undead since they're pretty strong and much safer to use. However, intelligent undead are often capable of creating "spawn", so they can multiply in numbers. It's a very high-risk/high-gain approach.
If in combat with a high level Cleric, the first action should be to Shatter/Sunder their Holy Symbol
Easier said than done; even if you do pull it off, many Clerics will have duplicates.
And if your GM allows the idea that Word of Undeath and Animate Dead form different Hit Dice Pools, then he is insane!
I'd fully agree that this is the most reasonable ruling, and probably the RAI. Unfortunately for all that is sensible, the RAW support the notion of two separate pools. Until such a day comes as we get an errata or FAQ actually stating that this is not the case, this munchkin-interpretation cannot be dismissed out of hand.
Let me clarify... I had been in a short low level campaign.
This character would be for a campaign starting at 11-13 and going to 20.
Follow up...
... is it possible to make Undead minions useful if you don't specialize?
[Example: A Dark Tapst Oracle or Cleric with say Evil and Trickery]
Or is going Necromancy an "all or nothing" thing? [Either speciaie or don't bother].
is it possible to make Undead minions useful if you don't specialize?
Divine minion-mancers probably want the "command undead" ability to control stray undead. Clerics need to spend a feat on this, and Oracles need a proper revelation. It's a little risky to be a minion-mancer without a means of controlling excess undead. Arcane minion-mancers get the "command undead" spell and don't need to worry about that. Otherwise, it's totally up to you as to how many feats and class features you want to put towards it. Minion-mancy works quite well out of the box.
Be a Wizard or Sorcerer who gets an Arcane Bonded item. Choose a "phylactery" (ring, amulet, whatever your DM agrees will work) as your bonded object. Enchant it for 100,000 gold (instead of 200,000) and become a Lich yourself. The spells are easy enough to pick up, especially if your DM lets you cast a few from scrolls and become a Lich at 11th level.