Dirty Trick? CMB or Saving throw?


Advice

Silver Crusade

My character is a life oracle with the haunted curse. One trick I like is to use my Mage Hand spell to move a blanket over a foe's head and drop it on him. I double-checked to make sure that the blanket is within the five pound weight limit of the Mage Hand spell. I can see two possible ways to apply the rules here.
(1) Treat this as a dirty trick. I make a CMB roll to see if it works. I would not apply my STR modifier to the CMB roll. Perhaps I would apply my CHA modifier since CHA is my casting stat.
My foe is blinded if the maneuver is successful. Either he would need to spend a move action to remove the blanket, or he might simply be blinded for one round.
(2) The foe gets a reflex save to avoid the blanket. If he fails his save, he is blinded as above.

What do you think?


I'd definitely go with dirty trick.

However I'd also give you a penalty for using an improvised weapon since neither mage-hand nor blankets are designed for use in combat.


The only concern I would have as a DM is that mage hand is not designed to be used in that way. It's a cantrip and I don't like the idea of a cantrip+cheap gear= level 2 spell (Blindness).

I would take a close look at the arcane trickster (for mechanical reasons, not thematic reasons) because the ranged legerdemain class feature allows them to use mage hand in conjunction with a skill check. I would point out though that the skill check happens at a penalty AND it took a class feature to even be able to do it.

So, I think I would allow it as a special dirty trick CMB = Caster Level + CHA Mod + (situational or bonus modifiers). And then, if it lands, I would allow then a reflex save = 10 + 1/2 caster level + CHA mod, to avoid being blinded and entangled. Full round action to free themselves from the blanket.

EDIT: even if they pass the reflex, they must suffer the regular effects of the dirty trick.

Silver Crusade

BigDTBone wrote:

The only concern I would have as a DM is that mage hand is not designed to be used in that way. It's a cantrip and I don't like the idea of a cantrip+cheap gear= level 2 spell (Blindness).

I would take a close look at the arcane trickster (for mechanical reasons, not thematic reasons) because the ranged legerdemain class feature allows them to use mage hand in conjunction with a skill check. I would point out though that the skill check happens at a penalty AND it took a class feature to even be able to do it.

So, I think I would allow it as a special dirty trick CMB = Caster Level + CHA Mod + (situational or bonus modifiers). And then, if it lands, I would allow then a reflex save = 10 + 1/2 caster level + CHA mod, to avoid being blinded and entangled. Full round action to free themselves from the blanket.

EDIT: even if they pass the reflex, they must suffer the regular effects of the dirty trick.

Wow - you're allowing more than I would expect. I would use BAB rather than caster level for the CMB, and I would not add 1/2 caster level to the save DC. (But then again, I would use one or the other, not both.) I would also make it a move action to remove the blanket, not a full-round action. I would not put the entangled condition on the victim, only blinded.

As you say, Mage Hand is a cantrip. A fifth level rogue should have an easier time avoiding the falling blanket than a second level fighter. So I think a straight reflex save to avoid the blinded condition, plus a move action to remove the blanket, is the way to go.

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