Need Party Composition Advice, Please (Part 2)


Advice


Well things happened and the party dynamic changed a lot. I'm not a bit confused on what to play. There's no real clear role that needs filling, from my perspective. Perhaps I'm missing something? Anyways right now we have a four man party, myself not included. That party is a necromancer cleric thing, a battle oracle, a ranged bard, and a melee fighter.

What I see is that we have two divine caster, one partial arcane caster, two melee, and two ranged. Our healing seems okay. So I'm not quite sure what to add. I know that I do not want to play a ranger, druid, monk or any class that we currently have.

The party will be doing a dungeon delve of one of the hardest dungeons adapted to pathfinder I think. I believe Rappan Athuk is what it's called. Please no spoilers :O


Hey I have run Rappan Athuk, and I would recommend a wizard or a rogue to round out this party.


Arcane Trickster would be awesome.


Oh, I forgot to mention we'll be level 8 and the bard is currently our skill monkey. So if the bard is trying to skill/trap monkey do we still need a rogue? A wizard sounds interesting though.


We had a party that did well with a bard instead of a rogue, but he had the archaeologist archetypype. Without that archetype a bard is going to have a hard time with the traps in Rappan Athuk.


Hmmm that does prove troublesome. So I guess the real question then is whether or not I should provide redundancy for trap disabling, or if I should get us some more arcane power. I guess the AT isn't really an option, is it? I've heard it only comes together in the double digit levels?


Isn't Rappan Athuk a multi-level experience? I mean, you may wind up leveling while you're doing it, so AT would still be viable. As it stands, the party does seem pretty short on Arcane magic, so a Wizard or Witch would help fill that gap. While the bard has some magic, he isn't going to be as good at it or have access to some of the same spells that the Wizard or Witch would have.


I was considering a Witch at one point, but as it goes it looks like wizard might be the better choice. Also, to my understand it is a multi-level experience, but I don't know how far we'll get >_>


Oh it's multi-level alright.


So it seems like arcane is really what we need. So comparing the arcane casters that seem to be the best options, witch or wizard, I have to wonder which one would be best for the situation. I mean they seem to have the same amount of utility?


Well there are plenty of recovered spell-books the witch won't be able to take advantage of, if I understand witches correctly.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

an urban ranger is another alternative. Can play the trapfinder angle, melee to full strength, and has minor spell support.

You DO need an offensive caster in some ways, but as long as you've enough overlap, you can be okay.

==Aelryinth


Grimmy, yeah you're right. Witches in RAW can't make use of spellbooks.

Aelryinth, while that's an interesting idea it's just something I'm not interested in playing at the moment. Thank you though.

So I guess its a wizard for me then! Thanks guys!


Anytime Sunshine,

Might I suggest Adjuration or Transmutation as your specialty school? And with a necromancer type cleric in the party, you can probably afford to take Necromancy as your prohibited school.


Sure, that seems like a good idea. I was planning to consult the Complete Professor Q guide as well. Any other useful tips?


All I can say is that a lot of the usual board advice might not hold up as much in Rappan Athuk. It's an old-school dungeon, it doesn't follow the format of modern published adventures. Things like blasting, trap-finding, and in-combat healing that everyone usually looks down on now can actually be very necessary.


I've never played Rattun Athuk, but from what I've heard it's a classic "Mega-Dungeon", so spell selection should be geared toward utility over damage (though a few damaging spells will help vs. resistent monsters). Spells like Fly, Levitate, etc. will probably be really helpful, and Polymorph might be nice if your allies die and you have to use Reincarnate to bring them back instead of Raise Dead. Buffing your frontline fighters will also probably get you further than direct damage.

Shadow Lodge

The Party Picker Says: A little low on ranged, healing, blasting, and could use some trapfinding. Party Picker suggests Alchemist, Ranged Barbarian, Maybe even ranged fighter.

EDIT: If Rappan Athuk has traps, then I'd def go with Urban Barbarian. You get trapfinding and ranged, which are the two things you need most.


Mmm I do enjoy the ranged barbarian, but I'm already playing one in another game. Don't really want to play another one. Why does the alchemist help?


Alchemists have Disable Device as a class skill, so can disable traps. They're also ranged AOE style fighters with their bombs, so can throw out a lot of damage.

Shadow Lodge

Alchemist is the ultimate blaster, and also does the ranged thing pretty well. Alchemists can also heal (although not as effectively as some other classes). ALSO although they don't have any special trapfinding abilities, they are the only class besides rogue that gets disable device so that will help on traps.

And they are fun and powerful! Pretty much good add around.


Would the AoE damage be better instead of a wizard? I thought wizards were capable of such as well. Or are alchemists simply better at it and sacrifice utility?

Shadow Lodge

Yeah, AoE is basically all alchemists do, and they do it very well. They are also incredible debuffers. INCREDIBLE debuffers. They certainly don't have the utility of the wizard, but with 2/3ths casting they aren't really a slouch. To be fair though, their "spell" list is mostly buffs.

Early level's it's a bit boring, just throwing bombs over and over. At mid to high levels it gets more interesting with the variety of bombs, but it's still pretty much just throwing bombs.


Go wizard bro. You will have fun. Just make sure you are well rounded, that's my advice. There will be so many situational things where just the right spell is needed and you have a good chance it's in your spell book.

But that is my bias I just really like the classic type characters.


Hmm well thank you for the options. Its certainly something to think about. At this point I'm inclined to go with the wizard for the business of dealing with traps and utility. To be honest, I'm more concerned with our ability to not die via traps than I am monsters.


I had an alchemist; he ended up being one of my favorite characters.

He focused on debuffing bombs. He had high knowledge skills to help with monster ID, and then chose the correct bomb to implement. He had the force bomb, confusion bomb, and stink bomb discoveries. As soon as he knew his targets' weak saves, it was bombs away, bad guys shut down, and the rest of the party rolled in for gangbeats. He didn't do a ton of damage, but he made it so nobody else in the party broke a sweat.

He also had a good formula book full of buffs, but I was so effective with the debuff bombs, I don't even remember what buff formulae he had. I remember at the end he had twin form.


Ranger(Trapper) -2/Inquisitor - 6+, forget a squishy trap finding wizard


The mobs in rappan athuk can reaallly grind you down, sometimes a good ol fireball is just what you need in there. To clear mobs of really weak enemies, or to soften up fairly large mobs of slightly tougher mooks like ogres and minotaurs. Yes ogres and minotaurs come in mobs in that place lol.


The cleric and oracle can deal with mobs


To be honest, I don't have a lot of faith in the cleric and oracle.


I see what u did there ;)


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I should add something about the Alchemist. ANY character can disable traps so as long as they have ranks in the skill. ONLY characters with Trapfinding can disable magical traps. Rogues have trapfinding by default, other classes can obtain it via certain builds/archetypes.

Given your party makeup and the dungeon romp format, I'd strongly suggest a wizard. Evocation for the most fun "bang/boom for your buck :)" or Conjuration(teleportation subschool) for the most powerful. Note that Conjuration does require some teamwork as does Evocation unless you have up selective spell metamagic (even via a lesser rod is okay)

Transmutation/Abjuration are good schools if you like the flavor and are okay in effectiveness. You already have a necromancer so I wouldn't take that school. Other schools do not usually hold up as well in the long run.

Treatmonk's Guide to the God Wizard and Brewer's Guide to the Blockbuster Wizard (see the Guide to the Class Guides at the top of this forum) are recommended reading if you chose that route.

Have fun and good luck!

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