Leveling up you character card


Rules Questions and Gameplay Discussion


For example if I wanted to level up Harsk to include a spell card , what trait does he get? Would he have to banish it at the end of the scenario? How does this work


If you choose to include a spell card in your deck, Harsk doesn't gain anything but the card. You wouldn't have to banish the spell at the end of the scenario, but you would have to banish it after you use it.

Fortunately, once you choose a role (either Sniper or Tracker) you can use a Power Feat to gain the skill Divine: Wisdom +1. If you do, you won't have to banish spells with the Divine trait.


Jinx9117 wrote:

If you choose to include a spell card in your deck, Harsk doesn't gain anything but the card. You wouldn't have to banish the spell at the end of the scenario, but you would have to banish it after you use it.

Fortunately, once you choose a role (either Sniper or Tracker) you can use a Power Feat to gain the skill Divine: Wisdom +1. If you do, you won't have to banish spells with the Divine trait.

Thank you, that makes sense.


Jinx9117 wrote:

If you choose to include a spell card in your deck, Harsk doesn't gain anything but the card. You wouldn't have to banish the spell at the end of the scenario, but you would have to banish it after you use it.

Fortunately, once you choose a role (either Sniper or Tracker) you can use a Power Feat to gain the skill Divine: Wisdom +1. If you do, you won't have to banish spells with the Divine trait.

What you say above is confusing. It is true that Harsk doesn't gain anything but the card. But he cannot do anything useful with the card either (see this thread http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qaee?Banishing-Spells

)
As you point out once he gains Divine (if he does the right role), the situation changes.
One of the errors people make in this game is the notion that characters can use spells like scrolls if they don't have the relevant skills. Unless that comes later somehow, spells cannot be effectively utilized by someone without the trait.


Bidmaron wrote:
Jinx9117 wrote:

If you choose to include a spell card in your deck, Harsk doesn't gain anything but the card. You wouldn't have to banish the spell at the end of the scenario, but you would have to banish it after you use it.

Fortunately, once you choose a role (either Sniper or Tracker) you can use a Power Feat to gain the skill Divine: Wisdom +1. If you do, you won't have to banish spells with the Divine trait.

What you say above is confusing. It is true that Harsk doesn't gain anything but the card. But he cannot do anything useful with the card either (see this thread http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qaee?Banishing-Spells

)
As you point out once he gains Divine (if he does the right role), the situation changes.
One of the errors people make in this game is the notion that characters can use spells like scrolls if they don't have the relevant skills. Unless that comes later somehow, spells cannot be effectively utilized by someone without the trait.

I am confused about what you are saying! You can use spells 'like scrolls' if you don't have the relevant skills (Arcane/Divine); however, you DO have to banish them back to the box if you use the spell. You would not have the option to recharge the card. Additionally, if the card calls for an Arcane or Divine die you only get a d4.

Any character can use any boon in the game. Some just use them more effectively and efficiently than others.


Drunkenping wrote:

You can use spells 'like scrolls' if you don't have the relevant skills (Arcane/Divine); however, you DO have to banish them back to the box if you use the spell. You would not have the option to recharge the card. Additionally, if the card calls for an Arcane or Divine die you only get a d4.

Any character can use any boon in the game. Some just use them more effectively and efficiently than others.

This is exactly right. Harsk can still use the spell, he'll just have to banish it after he uses it.

See this post from BoardGameGeek, I think it's more helpful than the other link:

http://boardgamegeek.com/article/13205363#13205363


Drunkenping wrote:
Any character can use any boon in the game. Some just use them more effectively and efficiently than others.

Prime example, why would Merisiel (whom can never gain either the Arcane or Divine skills) have a card feat to allow her to have a spell in her deck? Because she can use it like a scroll... she just has to banish it after playing it.

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

Bidmaron wrote:
Jinx9117 wrote:

If you choose to include a spell card in your deck, Harsk doesn't gain anything but the card. You wouldn't have to banish the spell at the end of the scenario, but you would have to banish it after you use it.

Fortunately, once you choose a role (either Sniper or Tracker) you can use a Power Feat to gain the skill Divine: Wisdom +1. If you do, you won't have to banish spells with the Divine trait.

What you say above is confusing. It is true that Harsk doesn't gain anything but the card. But he cannot do anything useful with the card either (see this thread http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2qaee?Banishing-Spells

You misunderstood what Mike was saying. When he said you invoke the banish text "when you invoke the powers box of the card," he means that you get to play the card for its power, but if you lack the appropriate skill, you then have to banish it.


Well, I guess my closing comment on that thread was accurate "This kind of clears things up." because when Mike wrote that, I believed I understood what he was saying, but this thread tells me the spell can be used as a scroll (as we from RPG world would think of it).
Perhaps on the next boxed set, when you print spell cards with that line, you can instead move the line in the recharge section. I think that would eliminate the confusion that I at least had. (i.e. Recharge says "If you lack the Divine skill, banish rather than discard this card; otherwise, succeed at a Divine x check to recharge."


Bidmaron wrote:
Perhaps on the next boxed set, when you print spell cards with that line, you can instead move the line in the recharge section. I think that would eliminate the confusion that I at least had. (i.e. Recharge says "If you lack the Divine skill, banish rather than discard this card; otherwise, succeed at a Divine x check to recharge."

Doing that would introduce an error as to how the card was intended to be played and used. If you moved the line into the Recharge section, then you would simply never Recharge the spell, you would just Discard/Reveal/Bury it instead.

That line has to be in the Powers section because it applies to the "Discard/Reveal/Bury this card" part of the text.

What might help if the sentence in question reads something like..
"If you do not have the Arcane/Divine skill, banish this card instead of Discarding/Revealing/Burying it."


See, you are making the same mistake I was. The point is that you NEVER have to banish INSTEAD of revealing.
For this card, even if you don't have Divine (Arcane for other similar cards), you can actually use any of the powers, but you can never recharge if you don't have the requisite skill, just banish. So, what I wrote is accurate, and putting it in the recharge section is more logical than the power section. If you felt you had to leave it in the powers section, maybe you could preface my suggested sentence with a header "Recharging/Discarding/Banishing:" (As I don't think there are any that need a Reveal)


If I upgrade my character to a new class (whenever that happens) do I take all previous upgrades with me. Eg hand size. I notice on some that the next class would have u reduce your handsize (if you previously took it)


Bidmaron wrote:

See, you are making the same mistake I was. The point is that you NEVER have to banish INSTEAD of revealing.

For this card, even if you don't have Divine (Arcane for other similar cards), you can actually use any of the powers, but you can never recharge if you don't have the requisite skill, just banish. So, what I wrote is accurate, and putting it in the recharge section is more logical than the power section. If you felt you had to leave it in the powers section, maybe you could preface my suggested sentence with a header "Recharging/Discarding/Banishing:" (As I don't think there are any that need a Reveal)

What in the world are you talking about? I suspect there is something you don't understand with this mechanism and have misunderstood what I'm saying and what the rules are saying.

Please read the FAQ again.

FAQ wrote:

The rules say I have to choose one power on a card when I play it. Why would I choose the power on a spell that says I have to discard it?

Any paragraph in the power section of a boon that doesn't involve playing the card for a particular effect is not itself a power—it's a mandatory action that you must take when you play the card.

The paragraph in question is something along the lines of...

"If you do not have the Arcane/Divine skill, banish this card."

That paragraph is not standalone. It is what the FAQ refers to when it states "Any paragraph in the power section of a boon that doesn't involve playing the card for a particular effect is not itself a power—it's a mandatory action that you must take when you play the card."

If you use the card's power then you must banish the card if you do not have the Arcane/Divine skill.

You seem to be under the impression that the paragraph "If you do not have the Arcane/Divine skill, banish this card" is optional. It is not. If you use a power on the card then this paragraph must be carried out.

Let's take the card Guidance as an example.

Guidance wrote:

Powers

Discard this card to add 1 to a check.

If you do not have the Divine skill, banish this card.

The first line "Discard this card to add 1 to a check" is the card's Power.

The second line "If you do not have the Divine skill, banish this card" is not a power, it is a mandatory action that you must take when you use the card's power.

If you moved the second line into the Recharge section (as you suggested) then it would become optional. Recharging a card is optional (page 15 of the rules) "Recharge: This explains circumstances under which you may recharge the card." If the line was in the Recharge section of the card then I would never bother attempting to recharge it, I would just discard it.


I know all that.

All I am trying to do is fix the cards so on the next box, someone who doesn't read the FAQ (which is probably most people) have a prayer to figure out how the game is supposed to be played.

The point is, that even after reading the FAQ, I was under the mistaken impression that you couldn't do ANY power if you didn't have the requisite skill (I know now that's not the right interpretation).

Putting this statement in the powers section makes less sense than putting it into the recharge section, as someone who doesn't read the FAQ is going to think it's a power (a dumb one, but gee, it's in the power section, so it must be a power [someone who didn't read the FAQ would think]).

If you have to put the statement into one of the two sections, it makes more sense in recharge, because (almost) everyone is going to at least look there (as there are few cases where you'd intentionally discard something you might be able to recharge. Then the person would notice that he must banish the card. That's all I'm trying to say. So, if the guy looks down there, he'd see "If you do not have the xyz skill, you must banish this card rather than recharge or any other disposition after using a power. Otherwise, succeed at a xyz 8 skill to recharge rather than discard."


May I say that "No, you don't understand all that.". You're not understanding how the cards are written which is why you are still arguing for something that would really mess up the game.

You read the card from top to bottom with each space between text blocks being different things. The first block is the card's power which is the same for every single card in the game so far. Think of this as "What this card does". The second block is for additional/situational effects such as those ranged weapons that let you discard it to add a d4. You ALWAYS do the power when you play the card on your turn. THEN, you see what the effect says. In the case of spells, it clearly states that if you don't have Arcane or Divine that card YOU JUST PLAYED is banished from the game (meaning back to the box). The effect never triggers unless you have played the card's power or the situation is met (for those ranged weapons meaning a combat check at another location and proficient with weapons).

As stated above, if you move that effect text to the recharge section all the Lem players would love you because they'd never have to recharge their spells. You're suffering from the biggest problem with this game--over-thinking things.

Did you play the spell?-->Do its effect(s)-->Do you have the Arcane/Divine skill-->Yes-->Attempt to Recharge
No-->Banish the spell

It's really that simple.

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