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I had a question regarding dancing lights, particularly what kind of action does it take to move the lights? Move, Swift, Free? It's vague as to what it takes to move the lights, and the "No Concentration Required" only adds to my confusion. Thoughts?
The dancing lights must stay within a 10-foot-radius area in relation to each other but otherwise move as you desire (no concentration required): forward or back, up or down, straight or turning corners, or the like. The lights can move up to 100 feet per round.
Since it says no concentration required (and concentration normally requires a standard action) I would say it is probably intended to be a free action.
I've always assumed it was a move action, like flaming sphere, but since it doesn't say so specifically... I guess it's a free action?
I guess I've always just mentally lifted the following passage from the flaming sphere spell and applied it to dancing lights.
The sphere moves as long as you actively direct it (a move action for you); otherwise, it merely stays at rest and burns.
Should probably be a 1st level spell, it breaks my games.
Anyway, free action with a distance limit.
Protip, if you're using a VTT, just treat it as a single torch with +10ft radius. It's much lighter on the memory.
Should probably be a 1st level spell, it breaks my games.
Anyway, free action with a distance limit.
Protip, if you're using a VTT, just treat it as a single torch with +10ft radius. It's much lighter on the memory.
Can you give an example of game breakage?
And what is VTT?
Should probably be a 1st level spell, it breaks my games.
Anyway, free action with a distance limit.
Protip, if you're using a VTT, just treat it as a single torch with +10ft radius. It's much lighter on the memory.
Can you give an example of game breakage?
And what is VTT?
It's too good for a zero level spell. Light is a zero level spell.
Game breakage involves two or three PCs using dancing lights like prisons use spotlights — to remotely illuminate large areas, and sweep for enemies in concealment.
It's just too mobile and too versatile. I'll never make a character who could take it and didn't.
A VTT is a virtual tabletop, a website or application that handles maps for you. They usually support lighting, because that is awesome and useful.
Mythic Evil Lincoln, which VTT does it cause memory issues with?
- Gauss
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I had a question regarding dancing lights, particularly what kind of action does it take to move the lights? Move, Swift, Free? It's vague as to what it takes to move the lights, and the "No Concentration Required" only adds to my confusion. Thoughts?
The dancing lights must stay within a 10-foot-radius area in relation to each other but otherwise move as you desire (no concentration required): forward or back, up or down, straight or turning corners, or the like. The lights can move up to 100 feet per round.
Some spells allow you to redirect the effect to new targets or areas after you cast the spell. Redirecting a spell is a move action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity.
/cevah
Good catch Cevah, looks like it is a move action. :)
- Gauss
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It's too good for a zero level spell. Light is a zero level spell.
Game breakage involves two or three PCs using dancing lights like prisons use spotlights — to remotely illuminate large areas, and sweep for enemies in concealment.
It's just too mobile and too versatile. I'll never make a character who could take it and didn't.
If it takes two or three players using the spell to accomplish something, I don't think it is overpowered.
Light and Darkness used to be first level spells. Light got demoted to a cantrip, and Darkness got promoted to a second level spell. Dancing Lights cannot illuminate large areas. It has a small limit to where the lights are in relation to eachother, and the light level does not show that large an area relative to Light. As it also takes a move action to redirect, I don't think it is overpowered.
/cevah
Some spells allow you to redirect the effect to new targets or areas after you cast the spell. Redirecting a spell is a move action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity.
Great catch.
You can usually use your standard action to take a move action, so you can move and direct one of your spells, or direct two spells.
I think the biggest difference between dancing lights and light is duration. 1 minute flat vs 1 minute per level is a big difference even at level two.
The problem is that most people aren't keeping track of rounds that closely. But if you really stuck to the rules, there would be a fairly good chance of the dancing lights spell you were using to navigate those dark dungeon corridors Winks out in the middle of combat.
...10 minutes/level.
Ah, yes. Even better.
When players decide to use the seemingly more effective Dancing Lights as their primary source of illumination, I just have them roll a d10 the beginning of combat for how many rounds the spell has left.
I've had a small handful of players over the years try to tell me that they recast it every round or some other such nonsense like that, but that does not fly in my games.
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...10 minutes/level.Ah, yes. Even better.
When players decide to use the seemingly more effective Dancing Lights as their primary source of illumination, I just have them roll a d10 the beginning of combat for how many rounds the spell has left.
I've had a small handful of players over the years try to tell me that they recast it every round or some other such nonsense like that, but that does not fly in my games.
Casting it is a standard action, the normal movement rate assumes that we take one action every round and that the action is a movement action most of the time. If we spend 2 actions in a round we are hustling, and a character can hustle for 1 hour, total, between two sleep cycles, without becoming fatigued.
It is possible to game the mechanics healing the non-letal damage from the hustling and removing the fatigue that way, but doing that doesn't reset the counter of the time spent hustling.I could accept that if the characters are doing it in an exceptional situation where time counts, but not as their normal modus operandi.
The rule in the old 1ed AD&D, where at the end of a fight the clock was pushed forward to the end of the current 10 minutes turn (the equivalent of pushing forward to the end of the minute in 3.X or Pathfinder) while the characters recovered their stamina, checked that their gear was in order, drank some water, and so on, was very logic and I miss it.
I could accept that if the characters are doing it in an exceptional situation where time counts, but not as their normal modus operandi.
The rule in the old 1ed AD&D, where at the end of a fight the clock was pushed forward to the end of the current 10 minutes turn (the equivalent of pushing forward to the end of the minute in 3.X or Pathfinder) while the characters recovered their stamina, checked that their gear was in order, drank some water, and so on, was very logic and I miss it.
Exactly my thought process. Depending on the setting, magic may harder or easier (I always go for harder; you're bending the laws of reality to your will. There's no way it's easier to animate the kitchen than it is to do the dishes), but it should require some effort.
If you've got at-will Longstrider, fine. I'll count that as "always on" and be grateful for one less thing to keep track of. But 10 rounds? No. Comme on.I hate the attempt to spend every waking second being productive. You're a living being. You will occasionally be distracted, unmotivated, tired or lazy. You're an adventurer: you regularly find yourself in life-or-death situations...you don't feel the need to live it up AT ALL when you get back to town? Is your a psychopath?
...anyway. Yeah. Light has it's place alongside Dancing Lights.