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I run games for multiple groups and one of my favourite groups to run for is the group who prefers to choose the concept of their character over the numbers. Some times a person will have the concept and the best choice but most of the time they will choose the lesser option if it fits the concept.
Anyone play or run for a group like this?
You're trying too hard.
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Pretty much how I prefer to play. The character is just the same as a character in a novel, they don't all have to be equal in ability just equal in narrative importance.
During play, I make a decision based on the view of the scene in my head, and then use the rules to determine the result (as opposed to checking which option would give me the better outcome and choosing that option.) My view of a good system is where those two result in the same thing - where the "common sense" option is also one of the most effective in-game.
When building a character, I try to reflect their backstory in their character sheet, rather than building them for optimum effectiveness at a particular task. They may be a L1 fighter, but that doesn't mean they trained since birth just to fight - they probably had (or still have) other interests that get reflected in the choices for their build.
Somewhat what I go to. I don't really care if you 'best fit' or optimize the numbers to the concept ... But I want to talk through and get a concept before I see a single number. Works for the best in my games.
"Oh hey, a thread about advice on running concepts!" *sees post* "Crap, another one about rollplay vs. roleplay."
Anyways, most people I've met in my groups go for a concept. They might decide they want to play a summoner or magus first, but most of the time we have a concept. The few exceptions are when someone is totally new to the game and lost and just unsure, but a few sessions in they're having fun with it.
There are a lot of "versus" threads popping up, aren't there?
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There are a lot of "versus" threads popping up, aren't there?
I'd much prefer seeing people saying why they enjoy playing a certain way than why any other way is badwrongfun. The more we can let the game community at large know that there are options and that there's not One True Way, the better.
I don't really see this as a "versus" thread as it isn't shooting down any other style of play.
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There are a lot of "versus" threads popping up, aren't there?I'd much prefer seeing people saying why they enjoy playing a certain way than why any other way is badwrongfun. The more we can let the game community at large know that there are options and that there's not One True Way, the better.
I don't really see this as a "versus" thread as it isn't shooting down any other style of play.
Exactly!
This thread talks about one of many playstyles.
I like making a concet - an unusually large Half-Orc fighter with brains and brawn, a Blackblade Magus whose Blackblade is the boss, a Kitsune Magister so afraid of the afterlife he's trying to become a lich - and then I like to break them.
Well, no, that's not true. But I will do a great deal of research, ask questions, and such to make them as powerful as I can manage. Making a childlike Monk whose purpose is an anti-paladin weapon is cool - making one that can barely fight would suck.
typically i try to blend concept and numbers within reason
and sometimes, actually often, i will make a cliche dump stat work, or take a dump stat fitting to the character, though i try to make sure the concept is workable
i will most likely find a Way to Dump CHA on a fighter an make it fit
but those points will likely be distributed to towards intellect and wisdom, rather than further boosting strength
i have done such horrendously suboptimal things as
dumping strength and constitution on a bard whom prioritized intellect over charisma but had high both
taking a bunch of roguish crossclass skills on a wizard whose purpose is to mimic a rogue. to get that Gypsy feel, but has not a single knowledge skill besides linquistics, whose spellbook is a deck of cards, she was also a sylph, when elf and tiefling, were far more optimal
i had an elven witch whom worn mithril brigandine beneath her kimono without proficiency (mithril kikko) and simply bit the 10% arcane failure until the DM rewarded her with a bonus homebrewed feat called "Armored Mage, Light" due to her success with the armor
i had a fetchling ninja with a 15 Starting Str, who wielded a Hand and a Half Sabre (Treat as katana) in both hands, and adopted the Alias "Arachne." she wore a victorian style gothic nobles dress and was a member of an Italian style Assassin's guild ala Assassin's Creed 2. the idea, was she was a duelist who tapped into the shroud to gain her powers, the shroud being the darkness beyond the edges of the planes, where only aberrations go. she was insane but a competent assassin. she named herself after the Weaver whom would eventually be called the "Spider Queen", "Lolth's Birth Name." she had the Ability to get minor favors or gifts from the spider queen by spouting her Birth name as if it were a True Name.
i had a strength based Jian Wielding Amphibious Undine Dragon Disciple whom other than a few houseruled feats from other races, fought with a jian in one hand, offhand free, had a lousy caster level, was one of the physically strongest Undines out there. she was a fighter 4/Sorcerer 1/Dragon Disciple X whom eventually progressed far enough as a dragon disciple to gain the benefits of the half-dragon template. she was a priestess of the Azure Dragon Seiryu. who doesn't like a strength based undine swordswoman whom taps into the draconic leiline?
I run games for multiple groups and one of my favourite groups to run for is the group who prefers to choose the concept of their character over the numbers. Some times a person will have the concept and the best choice but most of the time they will choose the lesser option if it fits the concept.
Anyone play or run for a group like this?
Yep, I've done it and seen groups that prefer it. The number of my latest group are getting high, because they did well, but it started out with concepts and identity, then easily moved into the builds they wanted, and now they are rocking inspiring heroes and leaders of many.
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My players are generally not rules savvy, and don't want to be. I am rules savvy, and I like that they leave much of their character building up to me. They tell me their concept, and I do a lot of the work for most of them to build it.
The results are memorable and interesting characters with solid builds but played with the accent on roleplaying and personality/characterization.
I think you could say there's a lot of trust in our group. That makes for some great gaming.
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Nope! I don't play a concept if the numbers don't add at least decently. I don't have fun if my characters have nothing to do in combat, so sue me.
Semi optimized is good fun, you are competent. I've rocked some chars that were very good at a few things, and the dm wanted me to get more stuck in, improve this or that stat to be a front line smasher, and I said no, I am going to stick to skirmishing and staying alive. Beefing dex, con, ac, I've done that for 20 characters. This one is different, he can shoot and run really fast from trouble. Roadrunner with a bow.
Beep beep!
Mines a mix of both....I have the character and I try and find the combinations which will make it as optimal as possible. If I've got a character adventuring he'd better do his job otherwise just stay at home and be a cobbler or farmer. Whether that's a combat person or a caster or whatever.
Mines a mix of both....I have the character and I try and find the combinations which will make it as optimal as possible. If I've got a character adventuring he'd better do his job otherwise just stay at home and be a cobbler or farmer. Whether that's a combat person or a caster or whatever.
i can agree with this mostly
a 15 before racial mods is sufficient to start with for most builds that have a racial bonus to the classes primary stat or at least lack a penalty
i try to avoid a 5 unless it honestly fits the character
Rex the Onispawn martial Artist had a
17 Str
16 Dex
14 Con
14 Int
14 Wis
5 Cha
yeah, she was an onispawn tiefling martial artist monk with the classic dragon style, armor of the pit, and power attack, and a 3 level brawler dip.
she also had magically enhanced and alchemically rust treated adamantium prosthetic forearms.
formerly, she was a slave forced to work as an attack dog, a miner, alchemist and blacksmith for a harsh and abusive master. she had ranks in Craft (Alchemy) Craft (Blacksmithing) and Profession (miner) and had Master Craftsman (Blacksmithing)
she smithed a suit of mithril Kikko designed to not interfere with her monk class features (+1 equivalent custom enchantment and also had brawling) the Custom Enchantment was called "Ki Compatibility" also reduced arcane failure by 10% (min 0) and treated the wearer as proficient. only worked on light armor
Rex's Forearms were Enhanced with Straight enhancement bonuses
the basic premise, was inspired by the man with the iron fists, she had lost her original natural forearms to Gangrene, and using both her feet, tail, and teeth to wield the tools, forged a new pair of rustproof forearms from Adamantium. they were priced as adamantium gauntlets
unlike most prosthetics, the hands were fully prehensile
she also had a bit of unleashed, wearing a dog collar, originally because her old master saw her as a dog, and now, because her only master, is the rough beast Rovagug himself
her low charisma, was derived from her seeking to deliberately shed her human blood and transcend mortality, becoming, not the perfect monster, but the greatest monster, the strongest spawn of rovagug to become, she idolized the Terrasque as a rolemodel and adopted the name Rex after the T-Rex, her birth name was Miyabi Kobayashi and she sought to surpass the Terrasque, to become the strongest spawn of Rovagug, she seperated stronger from perfect, knowing, that perfect would leave no room to advance, she wanted to become the strongest spawn of rovagug, not the perfect spawn of rovagug.
she may have died to a horde of zombies and a few mohrgs before she could get her wish, it was an ironic death, since she had shattered a castle with her bare hands to get to the loot those undead were guarding
she craved chaos and destruction, and ate everything, the only reason she wasn't listed as Chaotic Evil, were because her Personality was that of a T-Rex, Neutral Hungry, Gluttonous, and mentally unstable. she wasn't competent enough to understand right and wrong, only the bottomless hunger that was.
I prefer these type of characters and games because they are generally fun. You do occasionally try something that does not work ie is too far below the ability level of other characters to contribute but we usually allow character mods during home games so no dead end characters.
I thin allowing character retraining solves the need to endlessly worry about is my character optimized. Go with what interests you. If it does not work retrain.
I use a lot of obscure rulesets to hyperoptimize my characters. I find that helps lend itself to concepts.
For example, say I have a barbarian dip. Why? That can really help develop and flesh out the character.
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Look, now you've gone too far. Resurrecting a Shallowsoul thread is beyond the pale.