Extra Swift action


Rules Questions


2 people marked this as FAQ candidate.

Are there ways to get them? (Or be able to do more immediate actions? Though technically they are the same thing)

Liberty's Edge

I am not sure but you might be able to trade actions. Use a move action for a swift. I do not know if that is a rule but I think it is.


There is no rule saying you can trade a move action for a swift action.


You can't trade actions like that. You get 1 swift or immediate action.

There may be magic items that give you extra actions, but their use is probably limited to certain things relevant to the magic item.

Off the top of my head, intelligent items essentially give you extra actions, but of course you don't necessarily control intelligent items.


Falcar wrote:
I am not sure but you might be able to trade actions. Use a move action for a swift. I do not know if that is a rule but I think it is.

This was a rule in 4th edition. You cannot trade anything for an extra swift action in Pathfinder. The developers have stated that this is intentional and allowing it causes problems...

When I started DMing my first AP, I accidentally allowed trading actions down (move for a swift). My player's didn't ABUSE it, but they did take advantage of it in ways that I was not a fan of. I've since nixed my accidental allowance and would recommend to any other DMs to not allow trading down actions.

Liberty's Edge

Ok, I played 4.0 for a few years and never realized that wasn't a rule in PF. Good to know.


It is very strange that you cannot use a swift or immediate action in place of a move, standard, or full-round action, since swift/immediate is supposed to be strictly shorter than any of the three action types mentioned. But, RAW, you can't. I've never met a GM who wouldn't let me do it, though.


blahpers wrote:
It is very strange that you cannot use a swift or immediate action in place of a move, standard, or full-round action, since swift/immediate is supposed to be strictly shorter than any of the three action types mentioned. But, RAW, you can't. I've never met a GM who wouldn't let me do it, though.

Not so strange. Swifts and immediates are deliberately balanced against the understanding that you can only do one of them a round.

Broken:
[standard] Cast a spell.
[swift] Cast a quickened spell.
[move] Cast another quickened spell.

Worse, I'm sure there are ways to be granted additional move actions.

The point is that when swifts and immediates were created (for 3.5e psionics), they were ever more used only when it could be counted upon that they would only happen one per round. It's a good design and while a feat that perhaps allows a PC to do two swifts in a single round 3/day might not be unreasonable, flatly using moves can be abused.


It may be a good design mechanically, but it's a pretty bad design from a representation perspective. It doesn't even make sense as an abstraction. Swift actions are explicitly stated to take less time than a move action, so not being able to trade simply doesn't make sense.

And while I've found situations where using a swift for a move was unexpected, I still haven't seen a situation where it was unbalanced. (Regarding your example, there's already an understood, if perhaps not explicitly stated, "one spell plus one quickened spell per round" limit that trumps pretty much everything, even mythic abilities. So anything that violates 1+Q doesn't really demonstrate anything.)

3.5e psionics are no longer relevant (thankfully).


Borrowed Time from Mythic Reals is a transmutation spell that gives you (in its standard form) an extra swift action at the expense of 1 point of constitution or 5 Hp if you are immune to constitution damage...hello Undead Anatomy..


You know, there was some conversation recently about "your normal limit of one spell per round".

And I just realized: I think that used to be your normal limit of one quickened spell per round, but then that limitation got shuffled into the general "only one swift or immediate action per round" heading.


Swift actions are once per turn when you can take a free action.

Free actions are any number of times during any action you can take.

Readied actions cost a standard, but give you a standard/move/swift off turn.

Here are some options:

Option 1) On turn: Move+swift. Ready a standard for the end of your turn. When the standard goes off use a swift action in conjunction with it.

Option 2) Ready a swift action with a standard action.

Option 3) Use a swift action during an AoO off turn.


DiscOH wrote:

Swift actions are once per turn when you can take a free action.

Free actions are any number of times during any action you can take.

Readied actions cost a standard, but give you a standard/move/swift off turn.

Here are some options:

Option 1) On turn: Move+swift. Ready a standard for the end of your turn. When the standard goes off use a swift action in conjunction with it.

Option 2) Ready a swift action with a standard action.

Option 3) Use a swift action during an AoO off turn.

Close! But that doesn't fly, or at least I know I wouldn't let anyone do that. Reasoning is, It's still your 'turn' after you take your readied action. You've already used your swift for the round. Unless the initiative goes around full circle(and you've wasted your readied action).


PrinceDogWaterIII wrote:


Close! But that doesn't fly, or at least I know I wouldn't let anyone do that. Reasoning is, It's still your 'turn' after you take your readied action. You've already used your swift for the round. Unless the initiative goes around full circle(and you've wasted your readied action).

I was going to say "turn" effects end when you delay or ready, but that might be my 4e talking.

Upon searching through the books it seems pathfinder forgot to define the word "turn" with any rules text.

This creates some interesting predicaments:
If turns work like I thought, you can take at least 2 swift actions per round, and more if you get off turn actions.

If turns work like you think, a character can extend a buff/debuff indefinitely by delaying (because round based effects are tied to the character who created them's turn)


A swift is more valuable than a move. You can cast spells and activate many class features with a swift; there are very few you can activate with a move.

And there is no RAW option to swap actions. I do allow people to trade their standard action for another swift, myself. That is a reasonably painful cost to pay.

Silver Crusade RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16

Anguish wrote:


Worse, I'm sure there are ways to be granted additional move actions.

a Pathfinder Chronicler can grant you an additional Move Action, and at higher levels a Standard.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Rules Questions / Extra Swift action All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.