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In a new FAQ entry, we clarify the concept of the first exploration on a turn.
Can I play a blessing or ally to explore my location before I take my "free" exploration on my turn?
No. The rulebook says that many effects allow you to explore again on your turn, and we mean that.
Resolution: On page 9 or the rulebook, under "Explore," add the following as a new first sentence:
"You may explore your location once each turn without playing a card that allows you to explore; this must be your first exploration for the turn."
There are a couple of things to note here. First, we are now explicitly describing cards that say "Discard this card to explore your location" as those which allow the exploration after your "once each turn" exploration. If you begin your explore step by playing a Night Watch, you've just terminated the possibility of getting that "first" exploration. (So don't do that.)
Second, there are a few cards that don't fall under this concept. Detect Magic, Detect Evil, and Shalelu Andosana never use the word "explore." They say that you may look at a card on your turn and under certain circumstances you may encounter it. This sounds something like "explore," but just because you have the parts of a car lying around the garage doesn't mean you can drive it. These cards are meant to be sequence-breakers; you're casting a spell or hiring a scout to check out what's behind that door, and if you don't like it, you can do something about it. So, you could play Detect Evil before your move step, discover the villain, and vamoose to another location if you wanted. Blessings and other allies don't allow that flexibility; they only allow subsequent explorations after your first one.
So we're not changing anything about those three cards that we haven't already adjusted. Your comments are welcome.
Mike
Seems simple enough... though I do wonder why you'd want it to play that way. Is it basically to up the difficulty moderately in that you have to explore before playing (most) cards; that would increase the possible damage on the first encounter. This doesn't seem like it would make a big difference either way to me.
Seems simple enough... though I do wonder why you'd want it to play that way. Is it basically to up the difficulty moderately in that you have to explore before playing (most) cards; that would increase the possible damage on the first encounter. This doesn't seem like it would make a big difference either way to me.
It's a corner case, but I've run into a couple of situations where it was advantageous to burn a card to explore before using the normal one. (Usually at the temple of Lamashtu where the blessings were auto 2 damage and you wanted to use cards as early as possible for their effect rather than discarding them to damage.)
Thanks for clarifying this, Mike.
Thankfully I already had it that way in the Turn Sequence docs so I don't need to update them.
Would really appreciate it if you could take some time to read that doc at some point and let me know if it's all correct! There are more than 300 downloads of the current version and more than 700 downloads of the previous one, so you'd reach a wide audience if you spot any mistakes.
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Except you can't play cards to explore before your first exploration. You could play cards that let you examine the deck like Spyglass or Augury beforehand.
Explore: You may explore your location once each turn without playing a card that allows you to explore; this must be your first exploration for the turn. You may never explore on another player’s turn. When you explore, flip over the top card of your current location deck. If it’s a boon, you may attempt to acquire it; if you don’t, banish it. If it’s a bane, you must try to defeat it (see Encountering a Card on page 10). Many effects allow you to explore again on your turn, and there is no limit to the number of times you can explore.
And the text that Mike quoted above.
You can't play an Ally card like you're stating.
Well you CAN, but you'd forfeit your free explore. Still, there are times when you might rather use the Velociraptor for its buff than take the free explore.
Or that's how I read: "If you begin your explore step by playing a Night Watch, you've just terminated the possibility of getting that "first" exploration."
Somehow missed this the first time around. I can't remember the last time we played an ally before our first free explore, but I'll keep it in mind for the next time it comes up. We do Detect Magic a bunch in just that way. Seems that's legal, though.
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He specifically says though that those cards allow an explore after your first explore. As well as the rules specifically stating the free explore must be your first exploration. I think Mike was bringing up Night Watch as an example why allowing pre-free explorations is a problem, considering the sentence immediately before stated you could only use them after your first exploration.
Examining, yes, is allowed before hand though. It isn't stopping your first exploration from being your free one as it has to be.
Another way to think of this is "You can only have one exploration at a time." Since you already have a first exploration pending, if you make another one happen, you still only have one.
How does Letter of Marque fit into this. It says...
If you are at a closed location on your turn, bury this card. Chose a type of boon other than blessings and loot. Add 1d4+1 random cards of that type to this location without looking at them, then explore your location.
If you start your turn at a closed location can you play the letter before your move phase, explore the top card then move and use your free explore at another location?
Alternately if you start you turn at a closed location can you play the letter before your free explore to explore once for the letter then explore again for the free explore?
Based on the above discussion I would guess no to both those questions but if that's true then the letter is really only good if you have it in hand when you close a location and can immediately use it after closing. Is that the intent?
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I'd have to say no to both as well ... based on this conversation.
But I do see merit in the first question and letting that one work. If you're at a closed location at the start of your turn, you can use items or spells before you move and explore. This card is adding cards to a closed location and allowing you to explore it. And even though it probably is meant to be played after you close a location, it could be played at the start of a new turn. (You and your compatriot are at a location. He defeats a henchman and closed the location afterwards. You're now at a closed location at the start of your turn.)
But the second question, definitely no.
The fact that it adds cards doesn't make it any different than the others, much as we'd like it to. It says explore, so if you play it before your free explore, you give up the free explore. That's just the way it is.
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The fact that it adds cards doesn't make it any different than the others, much as we'd like it to. It says explore, so if you play it before your free explore, you give up the free explore. That's just the way it is.
I didn't say "yes, it would work". I said I can see merit in the first question. In fact, I said that based on this thread, I'd say it wouldn't work for either condition.
The fact that it adds cards doesn't make it any different than the others, much as we'd like it to. It says explore, so if you play it before your free explore, you give up the free explore. That's just the way it is.I didn't say "yes, it would work". I said I can see merit in the first question. In fact, I said that based on this thread, I'd say it wouldn't work for either condition.
I didn't mean to sound like I was targeting anyone. I was just saying.
This will cause me to reconsider Letter of Marque's value. D:
That's okay though. It'll still see plenty of use, since we don't usually run out of time. Though I had a lot of fun constantly discarding it/healing it back during Free Captain's Regatta, where there are no closed locations at which to bury it. That's okay. Turns out Letter of Marque makes a magnificent d6+2 fireball. :D Damiel, amid all his other marvelous powers, can always been a mini-Seoni.
This will cause me to reconsider Letter of Marque's value. D:
That's okay though. It'll still see plenty of use, since we don't usually run out of time. Though I had a lot of fun constantly discarding it/healing it back during Free Captain's Regatta, where there are no closed locations at which to bury it. That's okay. Turns out Letter of Marque makes a magnificent d6+2 fireball. :D Damiel, amid all his other marvelous powers, can always been a mini-Seoni.
Well, letters do burn well.
Its also causing me to reconsider Letter of Marque's value. Its optimal use is somewhat niche (i.e. have it in hand when you close a location then play it and explore before the end of your turn.)
In general I've been fairly impressed with the Loot in Skull and Shackles... more so than Runelords. The fact that you have to give up your free explore to use Letter of Marque at the beginning of your turn is kinda a bummer and really detracts from its viability for limited item slots. I suppose you could give it to Oloch and he could use his first explore at a closed location to heal then use the letter?
Would you play it if it didn't grant the explore? If you look at the explore as a bonus, it's not so bad.
It also combos with cards that let you move before you end your turn, like Giant Badger (different set, I know) or Potion of Flying (although you miss an explore still); I'm sure there are others.
Also, keep in mind you can use it the same turn you close a location (if you used the free close from the henchman). Then you've likely already used your free exploration and there's no penalty.
You have either forfeited the free explore or the explore again by playing that card before your free explore. Cards have no memory, so once you're done with that exploration it has no memory of what was played before you encountered and dealt with the card that came up from your exploration.
I'm a little confused,here. Are you saying that if you play a card that has an explore power before you take your free explore, even if you don't utilize that card's explore power, then you have forfeited your free explore simply by playing that card for any purpose?
I'm not sure that is what is being said. If you play a Troubadour to add to a check before your free explore, then you have NOT given up the free explore. But if you explore, then you have.
The Letters of Marque is worded as one power: Choose a type of boon, roll 1d4, add that many cards to the location deck, then explore your location. There is no "may" in there to allow you to add the boons to the deck but not explore them. So if you play a card like that before your explore step, then yes, you have given up your free explore, but precisely because you did utilize the exploration.
If there was a card that said "Do A, then you may explore your location", you could do A without exploring. If you played such a card before the explore step, and you don't explore, you didn't give up your free exploration.
In terms of characters who benefit from the letter of Marque, we should also consider Feiya (who loves having around an AP3 item even if she won't always get to use it) and Ranzak (who will almost always close a location, has the highest likelihood of having the card in hand when he closes, gets the most benefit of having an extra explore in a deck full of blessings, and can enjoy a stable card that sits around in his hand that doesn't encourage him to overextend and get himself killed.
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I'm a little confused,here. Are you saying that if you play a card that has an explore power before you take your free explore, even if you don't utilize that card's explore power, then you have forfeited your free explore simply by playing that card for any purpose?I'm not sure that is what is being said. If you play a Troubadour to add to a check before your free explore, then you have NOT given up the free explore. But if you explore, then you have.
csouth, if you play a card that allows you to explore (like an ally or some other card) and you play it before your free exploration, you don't get two explorations. So with the Lettes of Marque, if you play that card before your free exploration, you don't get to add the boons to the location deck, explore, then do the free explore.
Yeah, I'm clear on that, now. I was just confused because I wasn't familiar with the specific cards being referenced. I just kept asking myself why anyone would even WANT to play a card to explore before taking their free one, but now that I realize what they do, I understand.csouth, if you play a card that allows you to explore (like an ally or some other card) and you play it before your free exploration, you don't get two explorations. So with the Lettes of Marque, if you play that card before your free exploration, you don't get to add the boons to the location deck, explore, then do the free explore.I'm a little confused,here. Are you saying that if you play a card that has an explore power before you take your free explore, even if you don't utilize that card's explore power, then you have forfeited your free explore simply by playing that card for any purpose?I'm not sure that is what is being said. If you play a Troubadour to add to a check before your free explore, then you have NOT given up the free explore. But if you explore, then you have.
A more typical occurrence might be starting out at a location with only one card, which you know to be the henchman. A player might hope to explore into the henchman with a blessing, close the location with the help of the henchman, then enter their move step and go somewhere else to make the free explore. This is not a valid play, however, unless you encounter the henchman without using the word "explore."
Well...
I mean, there doesn't seem to be anything in the rulebook that prevents you from playing explores outside your explore phase. The only limitation seems to be that you can't explore on another player's turn.
With the new End of Turn mechanics, there may be a way to break that (and then we'll get a restriction on EoT explores)... let me see if there's a way to do so. There isn't much difference to exploring during the explore phase and at EoT, except that things that activate during end of turn only get activated (like Levitate)
A start would be to Levitate at EoT then use Blessings/Man's Promise/Allies to explore more than 1 location. I think you mentioned this Orbis when you were talking about using a single turn to finish a scenario.
Anyways, I found a way; display cards and other "banish at the end of this turn" stuff.
First, apply any effects that happen at the end of the turn. While you do this, unless a power directed you to end your turn, you may play cards and use powers.
I hate the word "while" here. It basically contradicts the whole "finish one thing before you start something else" philosophy. But regardless, I imagine the sequence going like this:
1) End of Turn starts. Nothing to do, anytime window open.
2) Play blessing to initiate an explore, encountering a bane.
3) Play Obscure/Potion of Heroism/Sphere of Fire/Rage/Strength/what have you
4) Does the end of turn effect get applied immediately? Does it get applied after the encounter? Does it only get applied at the end of your next turn? When is the "end of the turn" barrier?
I'd be satisfied if it was ruled "it's still during the end of turn, so after the encounter (since you have to finish the encounter before you do anything else) you have to discard/banish them immediately", but it would be nice to get a clarification. Of course, I'm not quite sure that the wording of the EoT phase supports this.
(It's still better than the old MtG interaction using a very old version of the rules where someone tapped a City of Brass during their untap phase, got pinged, prevented the ping with an Alabaster Potion for a lot of mana then Mana Drained their own Alabaster Potion, getting twice the amount of mana during their main phase. That was very weird.)
I don't think that will work. There isn't an "anytime" window between the two parts of ending your turn (1. End of Turn Effects 2. Reset Your Hand). The only cards you can play during "End Your Turn" are end of turn effect cards or cards that directly relate to playing those cards.
Or, are you pointing out that we kind of lost the "you may no longer play cards or use powers" part of the old sequence? It used to say "After resolving these effects, you may no longer play cards or use powers for the rest of the turn." I'm sure that was mostly an oversight when the FAQ was issued.
But, setting aside whether you can explore during your explore step or not, there is an anytime window between "Close a location" and "End your turn", so what you are talking about there could potentially fit in that window.
There'd have to be an anytime window, otherwise things like Levitate (At the end of a turn, discard this card to...) are absolutely useless. You wouldn't be able to play them at all.
I read those cards as being phase limited rather than "you play them and they activate at the end of turn". So they'd have to be played somewhere during the EoT phase - but the first thing you do now is "apply any effects that happen at the end of the turn".
So I guess I'm asking when the "you may play cards and use powers" part applies.
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Levitate, and other cards that say to play them at the end of your turn, are themselves "end of the turn effects". So you play them during the "First, apply any effects that happen at the end of the turn" section of that part of the turn. So they don't need any anytime window.
I've seen it like this:
First, apply any effects that happen at the end of the turn. This includes cards or powers that are played at the end of the turn (Levitate, Amirir's move power, Alahazra's swap power), as well as effects from cards played earlier (Rage, Potion of Heroism, etc) or things from locations or the scenario.
While you do these things, you can play cards or use power unless a card forced you to end your turn. In which case, you obviously can't play Levitate and do lots of other things.
Then, reset your hand (see Reset Your Hand).
Immediately after you finish the end of the turn effects, you reset your hand.
Ah, it's the silly Magic intuition that's getting me again I think.
Levitate and other spells that trigger at the end of the turn only trigger because the trigger happens while the card is in your hand, and you can't play it any other time.
The only thing left, then is what "while you do these things, you can play cards or use powers unless a card forced you to end your turn." means. Alright then, substitute 1) with
1) End of turn, Alahazra's power triggers and you use it. (Or even, at the end of a turn, Levitate triggers and you use it.)
Are you allowed to play any other cards here? The FAQ and the rulebook says you can, because it specifies you can play cards (with no restriction) any time you can play cards.
So does this mean you can play a blessing and explore when you use Alahazra's power (which then happens after the ability resolves).
Ah, it's the silly Magic intuition that's getting me again I think.
Levitate and other spells that trigger at the end of the turn only trigger because the trigger happens while the card is in your hand, and you can't play it any other time.
The only thing left, then is what "while you do these things, you can play cards or use powers unless a card forced you to end your turn." means.
It means that if you are applying an end of the turn effect, and you have a card or power that would impact how you apply that, you can use it. For example, if RotR Seoni was attempting to recharge Glibness, she can use her power to automatically succeed. Or if Amiri wanted to move from the Treacherous Cave at the end of her turn and had to make a Constitution check, she could play a blessing on that check. Basically, while applying an end of the turn effects you can play cards and use powers that relate to those effects.
Are you allowed to play any other cards here? The FAQ and the rulebook says you can, because it specifies you can play cards (with no restriction) any time you can play cards.
Pre-FAQ, no you couldn't.
Reset Your Hand: First, apply any effects that happen at the end of the turn; if a power allows or directs you to not reset your hand, you must still apply any effects that happen at the end of the turn. You may play cards and use powers unless a power directed you to reset your hand and end your turn. After resolving these effects, you may no longer play cards or use powers for the rest of the turn.
So, you could only apply end of the turn effects, and then could no longer play cards or use powers.
So does this mean you can play a blessing and explore when you use Alahazra's power (which then happens after the ability resolves).
I'd say no. I think that bolded part above was left out by accident.
I'd say no. I think that bolded part above was left out by accident.
Yeah. By the way, I don't think it should happen, because using the End of Turn phase for these things is rather silly. But I also support that you should do the most that you can within the rules (like Curing on another player's turn before they have to reset their hand, etc). So we need to know where the limits are :)
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I'd say no. I think that bolded part above was left out by accident.Yeah. By the way, I don't think it should happen, because using the End of Turn phase for these things is rather silly. But I also support that you should do the most that you can within the rules (like Curing on another player's turn before they have to reset their hand, etc). So we need to know where the limits are :)
We've allowed people to cast Cure before someone resets their hand. "Oh, before you reset your hand, I'm going to cast Cure on you. You get back X number of cards." (Or they cast on themselves.) Then they discard down (if they have to or want to) and draw back up. But we've only allowed them to do that between the "Attempt to close empty location" phase and "Reset your hand" phase not during the "Reset your hand/End of turn" phase.
Yeah. And that is totally legit. There is an anytime window between those steps. In the old sequence, there is an anytime window between "attempt to close a location" and "reset your hand", while in the new sequence there is an anytime window between "attempt to close a location" and "end your turn".
But you can't cast the Cure you pulled with Alahazra during EoT, because reset your hand happens immediately after and there's no time to cast Cure.
Anyways, maybe it's time to draw up a new anytime phase document... I'll see about reviewing the old document.
There is one in here that should be up to date.
So, fairly clear above you can't play Letter of Marque to get an extra explore BEFORE the free one.
but (relevant to a discussion elsewhere, which directed us back here) - can I close a location on my turn, then play letter of marque to add cards and explore again?
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So, fairly clear above you can't play Letter of Marque to get an extra explore BEFORE the free one.
but (relevant to a discussion elsewhere, which directed us back here) - can I close a location on my turn, then play letter of marque to add cards and explore again?
Correct on both. If you play LoM prior to the free explore, you end up forfeiting the free one. And you can play LoM (and the associated explore) after Closing the Location but before the end of turn.
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If you closed it due to a henchman / villain, I'd say yes, because you are still in the explore phase. If you did it because the location was empty, then that's your close location step and you are done with your explore step, I'd say no.
Why would you say you can't play LoM after you close the location because it is empty (and succeed at the check)? (It provides another explore in itself after a location is closed on your turn. I'd think it works if you closed a location after defeating a henchmen or a villain or performing the check once it's empty.)
Cape of Escape lets you move when it is not your Move step. Merchant lets you give a card when it is not your Give a Card step. Why wouldn't a card that gives you the ability to explore let you explore when it is not your Explore step?
Of course, this raises the question of whether allies and blessings can be played to explore outside the Explore step.
Is the Explore step simply the step in which your first free Explore occurs, or is it the step in which all your explores must occur?
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Those cards create special times when you can do something outside the regular timing, the difference being that explores have been specifically stated as only allowed during the explore step. Nothing says you can't move outside the move step or give a card outside the give a card step, you just need something that lets you. Exploring was explicitly stated though. Your free explore starts your explore step, but your other explores are part of the explore step as well (although they are each considered their own step), which is why locations that affect your explore step still apply even between later explores.
...explores have been specifically stated as only allowed during the explore step.
Can you give a reference for this?
Well LoM was OK since it doesn't give you an explore but rather an automatic aquisition. Meaning if you play it - and IMHO you can - outside your exploration step you get one card but cannot reexplore to get the others. You'll have to wait to the next exploration step.
Pb is with Droogami and other cards that give you an explore plus something else (e. g. a move) which point on whether the "cards that give you an explore card only be played during exploration step" should be golden rule or not.
Mike said he will get back to us on that. So as usual I am impressed and holding some more thoughts....