|
We are about to do something similar.
I am using lots of plants and aberrations. Mainly fungus type plants, lots of poison, small areas hard to maneuver, "natural" rockfall traps and pits, etc.
Partly because we haven't used those monsters a lot, and also because they realize the entire environment is hostile to them.
|
| 4 people marked this as a favorite. |
Hey guys, my party that im running the campaign for is headed into the darklands, Any advice on tactis/monsters that may help drive the point home that this isn't kansas anymore? Party is 5th level, will remain in the darklands until the adventure is complete.
Why limit yourself to having the players experience the Underdark / Darklands simply by the flavor of monster they encounter?
Oh, look, it's a kobold. We must be underground now. Funny, the hallways are all perfectly smooth and 90 degree angles. Other than that, doesn't it feel like the castle we were in last week?
One thing I've always done, given that a DM took the time to do it back in the day (he was actually a spelunker, so he felt it necessary), was show good photos of underground caverns, the types of formations, underground rivers...photos of spelunkers that visually confirm how tight the quarters can be (claustrophobia, anyone?), etc. Have photos that match the specifics of the encounter locale, and say THIS IS WHAT YOU SEE....that truly helps people not only understand the situation far better (logistics, tactics, etc) but also puts their head in the right "space", too. He always made a point of vividly explaining how humid it was, sweat dripping into your eyes as you struggled with gear, hitting your head on jagged ceilings, constantly discovering a new scrape or scratch, or even worse.
Just recently, a cavern system was found which was SO vast, it actually had it's own climate and temperature zones....complete with thin whispy clouds. Unfortunately, I didn't save the link, but I'm sure if you google it it is worth the effort as there were tons of jaw dropping photos.
If nothing else, they serve as EXCELLENT inspiration for you as the DM. Take for instance, the massive set of caverns in (I believe) central america...the temperature is so hot and humid, it somehow worked with the right combination of elements to create massive (and I mean MASSIVE, larger than man sized) milky white crystalline structures that take up the entire cavern, not unlike a forest of crystal....
And to add even more fuel to the fire, I remember reading a few years ago about an ant's nest that was so vast, it stretched for miles throughout underground caverns from London (if I remember correctly) under the channel and into France. Pretty crazy stuff, all of it VERY inspiring for the dastardly DM.
Have fun with physical features. Have fun with the unique features only found underground. Underground waterways ARE A B*TCH !!!! Don't forget your handy dandy breathing / drowning rules :), it not only applies to water, but also to caverns with "BAD AIR" or actual poisons such as methane that take up the entire atmosphere of that cavern. Radiation sucks too!!! And it's THERE!!! Hey, you won the lottery by finding that vein of PLUTONIUM!!! I know there *are* rules for this I believe in the DM's guide as a natural hazard, not unlike green slime and molds...
Also, don't forget the temperature differences. Often, underground areas hover perpetually at a rough 55 degrees Fahrenheit. This can be comfortable for awhile, but lead to cramping before long. Proximity of natural geothermal sources (such as magma flows) can DRASTICALLY alter this temperature.
Also, BE CREATIVE....add your own touch! Make the crystals the source of heat, or light, or even the poisonous atmosphere! Make beasts that for some reason worhsip/protect/revere/eat the crystals! Have kobolds or drow that cake themselves in mud for a +5 or even higher skill check to their stealth check as they stand perfectly still along the walls! Or use the natural features as cover, too!!! Let's not forget fungi.... is it smelly? Does it secrete anything? Will it emit spores that make it easier to DIGEST YOU? Is that a silver winged helmet I see half covered in the fungi? The light down here sucks, can you see it any better? I'm going to go a little closer...hold my torch....
This is just the tip of the iceberg.
Go visit an actual cavern system if you can, you won't regret it. You start thinking to yourself "Wow, there's Drow RIGHT BEHIND THAT COLUMN over THERE!!!!"
Check out http://luraycaverns.com/ for INSTANT inspiration!!!
- Flynn
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
+1 to what FlynnK said.
I would add: emphasize early on that the Darklands are *dangerous*. For instance, throw in an encounter where the party meets a bunch of low CR monsters scavenging the last bits of flesh from some corpses that have obviously been dead for a week or more. Easy-peasy, level appropriate, these guys were much higher level than the PCs. Like their gear is ruined and spoiled now, but it was stuff appropriate to a 12th level party -- there's a torn and ruined scroll of a 7th level spell, the broken hilt of a sword that was once a Holy Avenger, what have you. (maybe one minor item remains, rolled behind a rock or something). And then upon close examination, each corpse has something a little disturbing about it -- the top of the head has several holes neatly drilled through the skull, and the brain is missing.
The Underdark should be weird and scary. It's not just a really big dungeon! It's a whole ecosystem, and there are /things/ in it.
Doug M.
Hey Thanks Doug! Am I correct in the idea that you flagged me as a favorite post on this one?
I *love* the underdark, and try to drag my players into at EVERY chance. For instance, I *immediately* signed on to the Throne of Night kickstarter from Fire Mountain Games.
I think what has always caught my imagination is the physical conditions, the potential for daydreaming about natural hazards that can occur as truly fun ways to impede the party, and the overall fun you can have with it. Want to throw in a crack caused by some seismic activity into a long lost Dwarven tomb? Sure...go for it. Have a "neutral" city that lives under an uneasy truce deep down. One of my favorite NPC's here is a Mind Flayer who is an apothecary / rumor monger, and I love role playing the otherworldness of the mind of a Mind Flayer...and the fact that at first, players go "Oh CRAP...we're not talking to THAT"...and slowly realize, well, we may NEED to talk to him...
As for naturally occurring hazards...I think far too often fire and cave-ins are the main consideration here. Think WATER & GAS. These are HUGE aspects underground. A thin wall between you and a gushing underwater river? stale air? This is commonly known as a hazard today, especially with the catacombs of the Necropolis under the streets of Paris, which is a common destination for modern day explorers...and bored kids looking for a place to party. Think of it this way....relive the magic and mystery of discovering that cave or tunnel or sewage/storm drain tunnel when you were about 9-12 years old...think about the possibilities you felt for adventure.
Also, let's talk wood. Above ground, I really don't bother players with restocking arrows and quarrels as they can be readily found, retrieved, bought, etc. But, on a desert island (with no markets or fletchers to be found)? Underground? Wood is a rare commodity. In some case, may be considered worth more than gold. I typically charge in the "neutral city" I mentioned above 1gp an arrow for a "standard" arrow (which may be poor quality and cause -1 to hit and or damage, limited flight range too), but if the shop keeper doesn't like the players too much, guess what, that price just want to 2-3gp per arrow. Supply and Demand are a b*tch, aren't they ? :)
To me this is where good DM'ing comes from. Dungeons are fantastic, but far too often thrown into the mix with no real forethought about WHY the dungeon is there. Who built it? what was the LOGIC? Well, caverns and natural tunnels don't *need* that so much. They DO exist. Many of us have seen them in person. They are magical :)
I often think of movies like Goonies, Temple of Doom, The Hobbit (an untold Story), etc for inspiration.
Have fun!!! Remember, nothing is as much fun as seeing your PC's sweat a little :)
- Flynn
|
|
Also, I think that Raging Swan Press' offerings are wonderful to begin with. But, I particularly liked the "Dark Oak" adventure. Did I forget to mention you can buy this adventure RIGHT HERE on Paizo.Com ? :)
The potential for riffing and expanding on the underground adventure is omnipresent. I just had the caverns go on another 50% with various insidious ideas I came up with on the fly. The underground, underwater portions ROCKED!!!
Gotta love it when someone in plate decides "Oh, I'm simply going to jump and swim across that pool which I have NO idea how deep it goes"
Perhaps I should say at this point that I do not agree with the PathFinderization of the swimming rules when it comes to armor penalties. I am a FIRM believer that armor penalties should be quadrupled when swimming. Sorry, ever swam in jeans? Imagine it in PLATE...or CHAIN...or even LEATHER....
So yeah, considering the next chamber is essentially a tidal pool, that happens to be the main haunt of a crocodile? Hehehehehehe...yeah :)
Good times. Good times :)
|
|
Years ago, I ran the old "Hell in Freeport" module, in the course of which the PCs get sent to Hell. (And then enslaved as gladiators in the city of Dis, and then given a chance to earn their freedom by rising to the top of the gladiatorial rankings. That module had its problems but *come on, people, how could you not love this*.)
Where was I... oh, yes. There's a throwaway scene in that module where the PCs have to talk to a mind flayer. The creature has, at a minimum, crucial information, and it's also able and willing to provide vital help -- for a price, of course. The module, recognizing that many PCs will just say "whatever, we give the mind flayer treasure worth X for its help", makes things more interesting by having the conversation take place while the mind flayer is idly snacking. Yep, it has a chained slave kneeling beside it; the top of the slave's head has already been surgically removed. The slave is still alive, but every so often a tentacle flicks out and removes another small piece of brain...
Fortunately, the party had no paladin or other LG types. Still, it definitely kept things interesting.
Doug M.
For me, I have always enjoyed using different accents and the like with NPC's. Well, with a Mind Flayer, considering their mouths are within a tentacle enshrouded rectum of a mouth, I kind of imagined an almost gurgling and very nasal/sinus like quality to the voice. I think this absolutely caught the players off guard, as I did my best to bring that to life. Then, I made sure to let my thoughts and comments linger completely off topic during conversation...like (sadly) talking with someone who has Alzheimer's or some other such debility.....but from a standpoint of the mind of Mind Flayer being off in some other psychic realm...possibly even interacting with ethereal or astral beings and not realizing it wasn't keeping the two conversations separate from one another. I'm also pretty good at extemporaneous speaking, so going off topic like that is pretty easy for me :)
I *do* love the idea of opening the brainpan right there and snacking, now that *is* cool :)
I had the MF introduce the players to another NPC I like to play in such scenarios, named Stumps. Stumps is a gnome that specializes in gnomish alchemy/engineering of bombs and explosive (yes, thank you WoW). Stumps is most definitely hard of hearing, damned near yells when he talks (fun to roleplay), constantly smells of spent chemicals and ozone, and doesn't understand why he isn't the best at retaining customers let alone inspiring repeat customers...his stuff just works TOO well sometimes :)
And then of course, there's the reason WHY he's named "Stumps" which is always fun...he actually wears something like a wooden/stone fashioned exo-suit for his lower extremeties that have complex gears and pumps and a furnace / steam apparatus which effectuate his ability "walk" :)
The Underdark is just SUCH a fun place to explore, have fun, and let your mind go a little berzerk!
Maybe we should talk about my interpretation of demons in Golarion and how they were the ones that give the knowledge of fleshwarping to the Drow that worship them. Well, suffice it to say, I have fun with that as well, and go to something of an extreme. Imagine Vrocks with some sort of reasonably sci/fi cannon grafted onto their armstumps...or a fleshgrafted mechanical laser sighting device (Think Robot Chicken) over the eye that gives them a small bonus to hit...etc. I don't look to overwhelm players with any of this. The example of the vrock above is one where I really don't increase the damage that they would do with their "replaced" physical attacks. I simply look to add a unique spin, tons of FLAVOR (like your first foray into Indian food), and fun memories!!!!
It also keeps the players on their toes with the worst enemy they could ever have, their own overactive imaginations :)
- Flynn
Just recently, a cavern system was found which was SO vast, it actually had it's own climate and temperature zones....complete with thin whispy clouds. Unfortunately, I didn't save the link, but I'm sure if you google it it is worth the effort as there were tons of jaw dropping photos.
Hey is this the one you're talking about - Nice! -- Caves Y'all, caves!
Or this one:
|
|
Just recently, a cavern system was found which was SO vast, it actually had it's own climate and temperature zones....complete with thin whispy clouds. Unfortunately, I didn't save the link, but I'm sure if you google it it is worth the effort as there were tons of jaw dropping photos.Hey is this the one you're talking about - Nice! -- Caves Y'all, caves!
Here's a Google search link...I found the name of the caverns I was referring to. The one you are talking about I've seen in the past and is beautiful, but not quite to the scale that the Er Wang Dong caverns of China are....
Er Wang Dong Google Search and Photos
And here is the exact cavern I was thinking about when I was talking about the Crystal Forest...just look at this....
Cueva de los Cristales, or Cave of Crystals, an hour south of the Chihuahua state of Mexico
I don't know about you, but when I look at the photo of Cueva de Los Cristales, it almost looks like an M.C. Escher drawing where up can be down, or not.....
So, just imagine incorporating a bit of Escher laws of gravity into your special little cave...muwahahahahaha :)
It's THAT kind of thinking that constantly screws with the plans of my players, and makes the game FUN !!! :)
- Flynn
The 1st edition Dungeoneer's Survival Guide had lots of information on the hazards of underground travel, including some great ideas on mapping. The old D1, D2 and D3 modules would be good to draw on since they pretty much introduced the Underdark to rpgs. I recall DL1 (the first Dragonlance module) had part of a city that had collapsed down a sinkhole or something, so buildings were on their sides or upside down... And I believe it was DL 4 where the characters went into Thorbardin, a massive underground dwarven kingdom. If you are looking for bits and pieces to inspire and make your own, there is lots of stuff in some of the old material.
Hey guys, my party that im running the campaign for is headed into the darklands, Any advice on tactis/monsters that may help drive the point home that this isn't kansas anymore? Party is 5th level, will remain in the darklands until the adventure is complete.
I'm dotting this because I am about to send my PCs into the Darklands as well.
Makamu
|
|
The 1st edition Dungeoneer's Survival Guide had lots of information on the hazards of underground travel, including some great ideas on mapping. The old D1, D2 and D3 modules would be good to draw on since they pretty much introduced the Underdark to rpgs. I recall DL1 (the first Dragonlance module) had part of a city that had collapsed down a sinkhole or something, so buildings were on their sides or upside down... And I believe it was DL 4 where the characters went into Thorbardin, a massive underground dwarven kingdom. If you are looking for bits and pieces to inspire and make your own, there is lots of stuff in some of the old material.
Good stuff. I remember the Dungeoneer's Survival Guide when it came out. Lots of good info for DM's on natural stone formations, etc.
I tend to just let my mind go free when coming up with this stuff for underground. Remembering that shafts can be in *any* direction, any angle...rooms too :)
Imagine a grand tomb room, that was hit by an earthquake...but while it wasn't destroyed, it's now at a 45 degree angle ? :) Imagine some sort of spidery creature that could maneuver on this surface without problem, or an ethereal critter like a wraith..and the fun a party might have there. Sure, slightly higher levels and you might have spiderclimb, or flight...but who knows, maybe a crystal outcropping has strange anti-magic properties that suppress these effects ? :)
Of course, that one outcropping won't take much to destroy...but what if it is only ONE out of MANY outcroppings to chose from ? :) Multicolored ? :)
Yeah, I'm a sadistic SOB !
- Flynn
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Have a look at some or all of the following:
>PAIZO's Darklands supplement
>Ed Greenwoods Forgotten Realms "Underdark"
>PAIZO's Adventure Paths... I think Second Darkness AP
But here is a short list of things that really do the Darklands/Underdark well for me:
> GIANT glowing fungus/mushrooms
> Grand sweeping vistas glowing with a deep purplish hue
> Many pockets of isolated encounters (i.e. a wizard who got lost one day and settled down to build a cabin, primarily hiding from other denizens, but looking for an escape)
> DUERGAR slavers!!! Gotta have those
> Drow, drow, drow and more drow houses, nobles, a big city, and evil, sinister cruelty
> Advanced Elite Barbaric ____fill in the blanks___ ; trives of traveling creatures like the old Quaggoth
> FALLING: set the mood by droping the PCs deep , deep down under Land of the Lost style, or through a massive portal, but ensure there is FALLING at some point. Gotta have the falling forever feeling. (in a recent homebrew I had the PCs enter a portal then fall for a very long time having MELEE battle whilst falling. It was memorable for sure!
> Traveling down LONG long long passages
> Dangerous watery slick areas with beasts like Water elementals, Purple Worms, or Fire Salamanders. Use some classic beasts like the Yuan-Ti (or Pathfinder equivalents Serpentmen etc.
I could ramble on, but you get the idea. Good luck!
|
|
Have a look at some or all of the following:
>PAIZO's Darklands supplement
>Ed Greenwoods Forgotten Realms "Underdark"
>PAIZO's Adventure Paths... I think Second Darkness APBut here is a short list of things that really do the Darklands/Underdark well for me:
> GIANT glowing fungus/mushrooms
> Grand sweeping vistas glowing with a deep purplish hue
> Many pockets of isolated encounters (i.e. a wizard who got lost one day and settled down to build a cabin, primarily hiding from other denizens, but looking for an escape)
> DUERGAR slavers!!! Gotta have those
> Drow, drow, drow and more drow houses, nobles, a big city, and evil, sinister cruelty
> Advanced Elite Barbaric ____fill in the blanks___ ; trives of traveling creatures like the old Quaggoth
> FALLING: set the mood by droping the PCs deep , deep down under Land of the Lost style, or through a massive portal, but ensure there is FALLING at some point. Gotta have the falling forever feeling. (in a recent homebrew I had the PCs enter a portal then fall for a very long time having MELEE battle whilst falling. It was memorable for sure!
> Traveling down LONG long long passages
> Dangerous watery slick areas with beasts like Water elementals, Purple Worms, or Fire Salamanders. Use some classic beasts like the Yuan-Ti (or Pathfinder equivalents Serpentmen etc.I could ramble on, but you get the idea. Good luck!
I kind of think that my main viewpoint on the Darklands / Underdark is that it is nothing but 100% pure flavor...I tend to plan out the environment first, then worry about the enhabitants.
To me, in the Darklands, the terrain and environment are the show stoppers....sure, the encounters are fun, but this is a wholly unique opportunity for pure unadulterated fun!
- Flynn
Dotting for later. I'll admit, I have a fondness for Myconids. I just love them for some reason. I always feel super guilty when I'm told to kill myconids.
Another thing to remember about the darklands (if you're in golarion anyway) is the Vaults of Orv. Apparently there is this huge network of vaults in the deepest of the darklands, each vault being it's own little dark country. It's one of the most interesting things that differentiates the darklands from the underdark.
I'm also working on a Dwarf-Centric campaign where theyll spend 90% of their time in the underdark/darklands, so this could be useful info. Might be quite a bit deeper than some of the caves shown above though.
|
|
Dotting for later. I'll admit, I have a fondness for Myconids. I just love them for some reason. I always feel super guilty when I'm told to kill myconids.
Another thing to remember about the darklands (if you're in golarion anyway) is the Vaults of Orv. Apparently there is this huge network of vaults in the deepest of the darklands, each vault being it's own little dark country. It's one of the most interesting things that differentiates the darklands from the underdark.
Hmmm. Differentiates? I'm not 1000% certain of that. I mean, frankly, it's a unique idea, the vaults and the idea that they may be jungle, or basalt black sand, or have their own sun...but, honestly, that's nothing that couldn't have been easily incorporated into "the Underdark"...I kind of feel as though that sort of thing was intentionally left up to the DM in the Underdark, as much other than the vaults containing the drow cities were left uncharted.
I could be wrong, but I am working off of the assumption that vaults are merely that, stupendously large caverns, sometimes forming even stupendously larger cavern systems. Honestly, those do exist today in our world. The chinese cave I mentioned previously Er Wang Dong is just one such massive cavern, so large it has it's own micro-weather system....
I do admit that Paizo has put it's own personal stamp on it, with the promotion of fun fantasy ideas such as some of them being jungles, others basalt black sand and Pyramids with a sun of blacklight above (Dude, pass me some of that maui wowie...)...which of course is fun and really just spurs me on to create my own.
But the maui-wowie cavern gets two thumbs up from me!!!
-Flynn
Eh, I guess I was comparing the underdark (from forgotten realms) to the darklands.
|
|
Eh, I guess I was comparing the underdark (from forgotten realms) to the darklands.
Yepp, so was I :)
TSR just left the Underdark mostly, well, dark :)
Except for the city states...which I always assumed were in vaults, more or less.
None of the FLAIR or PINACHE that Paizo gives it's vaults though :)
The 1st edition Dungeoneer's Survival Guide had lots of information on the hazards of underground travel, including some great ideas on mapping. The old D1, D2 and D3 modules would be good to draw on since they pretty much introduced the Underdark to rpgs. I recall DL1 (the first Dragonlance module) had part of a city that had collapsed down a sinkhole or something, so buildings were on their sides or upside down... And I believe it was DL 4 where the characters went into Thorbardin, a massive underground dwarven kingdom. If you are looking for bits and pieces to inspire and make your own, there is lots of stuff in some of the old material.
I'm a first edition guy - I love those old modules