Hey all,
I'm currently in the process of making a few back-up characters for Pathfinder Society, just in case. First on the list was a Half-Elf Bard(next will be a Shoanti Thunder and Fang Ranger followed by Dwarf Cleric and Lore Warden Fighter of some type).
Just wondering how i did for my first attempt? I'm looking to be pretty versatile do some finessable work in melee while buff/debuffing. Act as the party face and just be all around helpful. Faction is up in the air but it fit with the name and i have yet to see any at the tables at my store.
Advice/commentary greatly appreciated.
Nizam Al'Latif
Male Half-Elf Bard 1
CN Medium Humanoid (elf, human)
Init +5; Senses low-light vision; Perception +5
--------------------
Defense
--------------------
AC 18, touch 13, flat-footed 15 (+4 armor, +1 shield, +3 Dex)
hp 10 (1d8+2)
Fort +2, Ref +5, Will +1; +2 vs. enchantments
Immune magic sleep; Resist elven immunities
--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed 20 ft.
Melee Dagger +2 (1d4+1/19-20/x2) and
. . Rapier +2 (1d6+1/18-20/x2) and
. . Unarmed strike +2 (1d3+1/x2)
Ranged Sling +3 (1d4+1/x2)
Special Attacks bardic performance (standard action) (6 rounds/day, bardic performance: countersong, bardic performance: distraction, bardic performance: fascinate (1 targets) (dc 12), bardic performance: inspire courage +1
Bard Spells Known (CL 1):
1 (2/day) Forced Quiet (DC 13), Sleep (DC 13)
0 (at will) Daze (DC 12), Open/Close (DC 12), Detect Magic, Read Magic
--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
Str 12, Dex 16, Con 14, Int 12, Wis 8, Cha 15
Base Atk +0; CMB +1; CMD 14
Feats Skill Focus (Diplomacy), Weapon Finesse
Traits Magical Knack (Bard), Reactionary
Skills Acrobatics +4 (+0 jump), Bluff +6, Climb -2, Diplomacy +9, Escape Artist +0, Fly +0, Knowledge (arcana) +2, Knowledge (history) +2, Knowledge (local) +6, Knowledge (nobility) +2, Knowledge (planes) +2, Knowledge (religion) +2, Perception +5, Perform (oratory) +6, Ride +0, Spellcraft +5, Stealth +0, Swim -2, Use Magic Device +6; Racial Modifiers +2 Perception
Languages Common, Elven, Kelish
SQ bardic knowledge, elf blood
Combat Gear Sunrod (2); Other Gear Chain shirt, Buckler, Dagger, Rapier, Sling, Sling bullets (20), Backpack (16 @ 30 lbs), Bandolier (empty), Bedroll, Belt pouch (3 @ 0.86 lbs), Flint and steel, Grooming kit, Mess kit, Rope, Sack (empty), Torch (3), Trail rations (7), Waterskin, Weapon cord, 9 GP, 2 SP, 7 CP
--------------------
TRACKED RESOURCES
--------------------
Bardic Performance (standard action) (6 rounds/day) - 0/6
Dagger - 0/1
Sling bullets - 0/20
Sunrod - 0/2
Torch - 0/3
Trail rations - 0/7
--------------------
Special Abilities
--------------------
Bardic Knowledge +1 (Ex) Add +1 to all knowledge skill checks.
Bardic Performance (standard action) (6 rounds/day) Your performances can create magical effects.
Bardic Performance: Countersong (Su) Counter magical effects that depend on sound.
Bardic Performance: Distraction (Su) Counter magical effects that depend on sight.
Bardic Performance: Fascinate (1 targets) (DC 12) (Su) One or more creatures becomes fascinated with you.
Bardic Performance: Inspire Courage +1 (Su) Morale bonus on some saving throws, attack and damage rolls.
Elf Blood You are counted as both elven and human for any effect relating to race.
Elven Immunities +2 save bonus vs Enchantments.
Elven Immunities - Sleep You are immune to magic sleep effects.
Low-Light Vision See twice as far as a human in low light, distinguishing color and detail.
Magical Knack (Bard) +2 CL for a specific class, to a max of your HD.
Weapon cord Attached weapon can be recovered as a swift action.
Hero Lab® and the Hero Lab logo are Registered Trademarks of LWD Technology, Inc. Free download at http://www.wolflair.com
Pathfinder® and associated marks and logos are trademarks of Paizo Publishing, LLC®, and are used under license.
Are you planning to multiclass later? Bards really benefit from being single classed, and in that case Magical Knack will do nothing for you.
Not personally a fan of -Wis modifier, but you can fix that by dropping CON one point and taking CON as your level 4 stat bump.
Seems pretty run of the mill to me. Just make sure you know you are not really combat-focused at all (not going archery, with that high dex, and also not going heavy on control spells like Slow with low CHA). That may be fine if that's what you are going for, but as it is you are kinda in between two very efficient ways to play a bard (heavy dex and archery, or a control bard with high spell DCs)
Also, I would swap out sleep with something more useful. It is a pretty hard spell to use in PFS (1 round casting time, for one) and there are so many other good options for bards: liberating command, anticipate peril, vanish, grease, saving finale, ear-piercing scream and chord of shards to name a few.
Your point buy is only 19, so you got 1 more to spend. You would be better served taking Skill Focus (Oratory) IMO, as starting at 2nd level, you're going to be using that skill for diplomacy and sense motive.
Sleep is decent, but you might wish to look into swapping it out later. Lower casting stat generally makes for an easier save.
Might want to get a cheap whip for trip/disarm attempts at a range. You can use your Weapon Finesse to make it go off DEX instead of STR when you use the whip.
In general, a fairly solid flexible bard build.
|
Might want to get a cheap whip for trip/disarm attempts at a range. You can use your Weapon Finesse to make it go off DEX instead of STR when you use the whip.
Weapon Finesse only lets you use your DEX for attacks not CMB. The feat for that is Agile Maneuvers.
Weapon Finesse (Combat)
You are trained in using your agility in melee combat, as opposed to brute strength.
Benefit: With a light weapon, rapier, whip, or spiked chain made for a creature of your size category, you may use your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier on attack rolls. If you carry a shield, its armor check penalty applies to your attack rolls.
Special: Natural weapons are considered light weapons.Agile Maneuvers (Combat)
You've learned to use your quickness in place of brute force when performing combat maneuvers.
Benefit: You add your Dexterity bonus to your base attack bonus and size bonus when determining your Combat Maneuver Bonus (see Combat) instead of your Strength bonus.
Normal: You add your Strength bonus to your base attack bonus and size bonus when determining your Combat Maneuver Bonus.
Might want to get a cheap whip for trip/disarm attempts at a range. You can use your Weapon Finesse to make it go off DEX instead of STR when you use the whip.Weapon Finesse only lets you use your DEX for attacks not CMB. The feat for that is Agile Maneuvers.
The exception to that is if you're using a weapon to perform the combat maneuver. See the FAQ entry:
Since you can finesse a whip, you can use weapon finesse with it to perform disarm and trip maneuvers. I doubt you could sunder with a whip.
It depends on what combat maneuver you're attempting. Disarm, sunder, and trip are normally the only kinds of combat maneuvers in which you’re actually using a weapon to perform the maneuver, and therefore the weapon’s bonuses apply to the roll. Therefore, if you're attempting a disarm, sunder, or trip maneuver, you can apply your Dex bonus instead of your Str mod on the combat maneuver check (assuming you're using a finessable weapon, of course). For other combat maneuvers, you use the normal rule for determining CMB (Str instead of Dex).The Agile Maneuvers feat applies to all combat maneuvers, not just disarm, sunder, and trip, so it is still a useful option for a Dex-based creature that uses combat maneuvers.
—Sean K Reynolds, 10/03/11
This, thank you. I had been starting my own reply when yours popped in.
My bard has been disarming with his whip and finesse for awhile now.
Are you planning to multiclass later? Bards really benefit from being single classed, and in that case Magical Knack will do nothing for you.
I was planning to multi-class into rogue. Some skill diversity/trap stuff just incase and a little damage bump from sneak attack.
Not personally a fan of -Wis modifier, but you can fix that by dropping CON one point and taking CON as your level 4 stat bump.
Fixed. I didn't really want a dump stat but getting the points to line up it just worked out that way.
Seems pretty run of the mill to me. Just make sure you know you are not really combat-focused at all (not going archery, with that high dex, and also not going heavy on control spells like Slow with low CHA). That may be fine if that's what you are going for, but as it is you are kinda in between two very efficient ways to play a bard (heavy dex and archery, or a control bard with high spell DCs)
Is there a better way to blend the Control aspect with a Ranged Build?
Also, I would swap out sleep with something more useful. It is a pretty hard spell to use in PFS (1 round casting time, for one) and there are so many other good options for bards: liberating command, anticipate peril, vanish, grease, saving finale, ear-piercing scream and chord of shards to name a few.
I really love grease and the other spells were just for place holders. Any other thoughts to these are really appreciated. Spell casters are mostly new to me. I almost always play frontline melee types.
Your Bard does not look "okay".
He's a Bard, he looks fabulous!
|
RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
|
Your Bard does not look "okay".
He's a Bard, he looks fabulous!
Speaking of which, I suggest picking up the shield cloak from Ultimate Equipment. Sure, it's no stronger than a light shield, while costing more and eating your shoulders slot so you can't use a cloak of resistance; but the important thing is that your shield is a CAPE! ;)
Your point buy is only 19, so you got 1 more to spend. You would be better served taking Skill Focus (Oratory) IMO, as starting at 2nd level, you're going to be using that skill for diplomacy and sense motive.
The point buy was fine. Thanks for the advice on Oratory, will do.
Sleep is decent, but you might wish to look into swapping it out later. Lower casting stat generally makes for an easier save.
This was a place holder. I need to go over all the spells.
Might want to get a cheap whip for trip/disarm attempts at a range. You can use your Weapon Finesse to make it go off DEX instead of STR when you use the whip.
I like this idea. Get a sort of Indiana Jones kinda feel. I can still go for the archery route and have the back-up whip just in case. Or is this suggestion for if i stick in the meleeish range?
In general, a fairly solid flexible bard build.
Thanks. I'm still learning.
Your Bard does not look "okay".
He's a Bard, he looks fabulous!
Well, being first level and only having a 15 Charisma probably not so much but he certainly likes to think he is.
|
Change your skill focus from diplomacy to perform oratory which at level two with versatile performance gives you skill focus for diplomacy and sense motive.
edit: You might also want another performance for your countersong (keyboard, percussion, wind, string, or sing) since oratory covers your distraction.
Your point buy is only 19, so you got 1 more to spend. You would be better served taking Skill Focus (Oratory) IMO, as starting at 2nd level, you're going to be using that skill for diplomacy and sense motive.The point buy was fine. Thanks for the advice on Oratory, will do.
Sleep is decent, but you might wish to look into swapping it out later. Lower casting stat generally makes for an easier save.This was a place holder. I need to go over all the spells.
Might want to get a cheap whip for trip/disarm attempts at a range. You can use your Weapon Finesse to make it go off DEX instead of STR when you use the whip.I like this idea. Get a sort of Indiana Jones kinda feel. I can still go for the archery route and have the back-up whip just in case. Or is this suggestion for if i stick in the meleeish range?
Thanks. I'm still learning.
In general, a fairly solid flexible bard build.
In regards to the point buy:
Str 12, Dex 16, Con 14, Int 12, Wis 8, Cha 15
I just meant you can do 2 for STR, 5 for DEX, 5 for CON, 2 for INT, -2 for WIS, and 7 for CHA. So, 2+5+5+2-2+7=19...
It looks like you've gotten the same stats by doing 2+10+5+2-2+3=20, but it's slightly less optimal if you put the +2 bonus into anything but your highest stat is all. It's 1 point, but it could make your WIS a 9 so you can buy out the negative at a level bump or make your STR/INT 13 for either combat expertise or power attack if you were thinking of either.
The whip suggestion is just a good back up option to keep in mind regardless where you put your most emphasis in my mind. Keep in mind your bard buffs that increase your attack rolls (inspire courage, heroism, good hope, etc.) will also help your CMB for them too.
It's a very balanced build, and a very good start. Bards are SO much better in PF than they were in 3.0/3.5 with their versatility.
Okay, so i updated the build. So much advice it was hard to keep straight. Plus i started fiddling around with the build sooo...
Nizam Al'Latif
Male Half-Elf Bard 1
CN Medium Humanoid (elf, human)
Init +5; Senses low-light vision; Perception +5
--------------------
Defense
--------------------
AC 16, touch 13, flat-footed 13 (+2 armor, +1 shield, +3 Dex)
hp 9 (1d8+1)
Fort +1, Ref +5, Will +1; +2 vs. enchantments
Immune magic sleep; Resist elven immunities
--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed 20 ft.
Melee Dagger +2 (1d4+1/19-20/x2) and
. . Unarmed strike +2 (1d3+1/x2) and
. . Whip +2 (1d3+1/x2)
Ranged Shortbow +3 (1d6/x3)
Special Attacks bardic performance (standard action) (7 rounds/day, bardic performance: countersong, bardic performance: distraction, bardic performance: fascinate (1 targets) (dc 13), bardic performance: inspire courage +1
Bard Spells Known (CL 1):
1 (2/day) Saving Finale (DC 14), Ear-Piercing Scream (DC 14)
0 (at will) Daze (DC 13), Open/Close (DC 13), Detect Magic, Read Magic
--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
Str 12, Dex 16, Con 12, Int 12, Wis 9, Cha 16
Base Atk +0; CMB +1; CMD 14
Feats Skill Focus (Perform [oratory]), Weapon Finesse
Traits Magical Knack (Bard), Reactionary
Skills Acrobatics +4 (+0 jump), Bluff +7, Climb -2, Diplomacy +7, Escape Artist +0, Fly +0, Knowledge (arcana) +2, Knowledge (history) +2, Knowledge (local) +6, Knowledge (nobility) +2, Knowledge (planes) +2, Knowledge (religion) +2, Perception +5, Perform (oratory) +10, Perform (sing) +7, Ride +0, Spellcraft +5, Stealth +0, Swim -2; Racial Modifiers +2 Perception
Languages Common, Elven, Kelish
SQ bardic knowledge, elf blood
Combat Gear Sunrod (2), Weapon blanch (silver) (3); Other Gear Lamellar cuirass, Buckler, Blunt arrows (20), Cold Iron Arrow, iron-tipped distance (50), Dagger, Shortbow, Whip, Backpack (16 @ 30 lbs), Bandolier (empty), Bedroll, Belt pouch (3 @ 2.04 lbs), Flint and steel, Grappling arrow, Grooming kit, Mess kit, Patchwork cloak, Rope, Sack (empty), Torch (3), Trail rations (7), Waterskin, 65 GP, 5 SP, 7 CP
--------------------
TRACKED RESOURCES
--------------------
Bardic Performance (standard action) (7 rounds/day) - 0/7
Blunt arrows - 0/20
Cold Iron Arrow, iron-tipped distance - 0/50
Dagger - 0/1
Sunrod - 0/2
Torch - 0/3
Trail rations - 0/7
--------------------
Special Abilities
--------------------
Bardic Knowledge +1 (Ex) Add +1 to all knowledge skill checks.
Bardic Performance (standard action) (7 rounds/day) Your performances can create magical effects.
Bardic Performance: Countersong (Su) Counter magical effects that depend on sound.
Bardic Performance: Distraction (Su) Counter magical effects that depend on sight.
Bardic Performance: Fascinate (1 targets) (DC 13) (Su) One or more creatures becomes fascinated with you.
Bardic Performance: Inspire Courage +1 (Su) Morale bonus on some saving throws, attack and damage rolls.
Elf Blood You are counted as both elven and human for any effect relating to race.
Elven Immunities +2 save bonus vs Enchantments.
Elven Immunities - Sleep You are immune to magic sleep effects.
Low-Light Vision See twice as far as a human in low light, distinguishing color and detail.
Magical Knack (Bard) +2 CL for a specific class, to a max of your HD.
1. How do i make him better as a Ranged/Controller/(de)buffer?
2. If not MCing what would be a better Trait than Magical Knack?
2a. Should i keep multitalented or use the racial archetype Arcane training or just not worry about it?
3. Do i lose the AC bonus from the buckler if i attack with a Bow?
4. Is the stat array good or should i adjust it? (12/16/12/12/9/14+2 start= 2+10+2+2-1+5= 20pts.) Bump wisdom at 4 and then charisma from there on out.
Color me confused >.<
1. Bards make decent archers, choose every archery feat going. For controller bards you're going to want to load up on enchantment spells and take feats like Spell Focus (Enchantment) & Greater Spell Focus (Enchantment), and use intimidate for the shaken debuff (-2 to most things including saves).
2. For bard traits I like Reactionary and Savant (Perform [comedy]).
3. For that round yes
4. I'd stick to bumping charisma personally
Thanks TGMaxMaxer.
While my intial build probably didn't do such a great job of it i really envision this guy being up close to melee mixing it up with the frontline. The idea of a Blade and Buckler sort really appealed to me but then the Whip Tripper idea came up and i really thought that could be cool. Definitely not something i've seen at my store for PFS. (I'll be working on a LoreWarden Trip Fighter Build because it seems like everyone at my store is allergic to the Fighter/Frontline types).
So i think i'd like to switch up to the Human idea, and i know most frown upon MC'ing but i like the idea of some versatility when it comes to my PC's so..., I'm going to start with a
HUMAN BARD 1
10/18/12/13/10/14 stat line.
Weapon Finesse
Arcane Strike
Then rebuild before playing level 2. Cheesy as hell i know but it will allow for my feats to line up better. I would need to swap Weapon Finesse and lingering performance since LP isn't a Fighter Bonus feat but WFin is.
That would give me
HUMAN BARD 1
HBF-Arcane Strike
LvL1.-Lingering performance
LORE WARDEN 1(CR 2)
FBF- Weapon Finesse
And Then go with Lore Warden for one more level and grab Combat Expertise(free) ,and, i assume another BF- Improved Trip.
As far as spells i'll go with party buffers and terrain control spells.
|
RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
|
especially with the APL+3 nature of most combats coming in season 5.
Where are you getting the idea that "most combats" in Season 5 are going to be APL+3? It's my understanding that difficulty actually got scaled back down a tad after Season 4's ramp up. I haven't GM'd any Season 5 yet, so I don't have real numbers, but as a player I haven't gotten the impression that APL+3 is the norm.
I really don't know what any of that means but what i do know is that so far i've played three scenarios recently with my Paladin. 2 were season 5 and he was level 3 and those were pretty much a breeze with some minor annoyances thrown in while the last one i played was a season 4(Santos Abduction) @LvL 4 and was a strong breeze away from final death in the final encounter.
If we played more season 4 stuff at our store there probably would have been a few more total party rebuilds and level 1 adventures being played.