Flail vs Morningstar


Rules Questions


Can someone explain why a morningstar damage type is listed as both P/B yet the flail is only listed as bludgeling? Yet in the descriptor both are listed as having a spiked ball except one is attached to a length of chain vs mounted right on the end of the haft. I own a flail and that spiked ball sure would do piercing damage as well.


Ah, the ancient question. I remember puzzling over this back in the 2nd Edition days. At this point, I think designers carry over this quirk just to mess with us.


Probably because flails are an under-supported weapon group, and this discrepancy hasn't been high enough on the dev's radar to address.

Personally, I'd love to see the dorn derger and meteor hammer get an option for B/P damage.

I had a fun idea for a character that specialized in the dorn derger, where the chain was made of mithril to keep it light, but it had detachable heads for versatility...mithril/adamantine/cold iron.


Traditionally the spikes on a Flail are smaller than those on a Morningstar, and I'm not sure they'd pierce actual armour.


I still don't see why they don't make it B/P on flail. They could say if it's the flanged head then it only does bludgeling.


Just to muddy the waters....

A 'morningstar' was the name given to a mace with a round head and spikes - as PF has classed it. A flail is a heavy head (or multiple heads) on a chain on a stick. A morningstar flail is the famous spiked ball on a chain (onna stick) which is different from the flail in the same way as the morningstar mace is different from the standard mace.

But I tend to agree with VRMH in that I think the designers decided that they would have to draw a line and classed a flail using balls with spikes too small to be piercing. It is an arbitrary way of doing it, but gives the two weapons a different feel. I would probably be happier with a blunt and morningstar variant for the flail but I appreciate that becoming obsessed with weapon minutia can detract from the game.

I would also like the warhammer to be spiked because the real ones were very rarely blunt, then making the 'lump hammer' warhammer a mace.

I think you have to accept that it is a game rather than an in-depth study of real weapons.


I know it's a game bit I thought that maybe someone had brought up this question earlier and that it may have been addressed by one of the staff. The flail I have has very long pointy spikes about as long as your thumb and would punch through armor. It did a great job on sheet rock.


What you have is a morningstar flail, a weapon that is not adequately represented in the game. So, homebrew it or use one of the existing weapons.

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