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As is, I believe permanency is only applicable on the spells it lists in the CRB. Now, if you want to ask your GM if he would allow it (the spell specifically says that GMs might allow different spells to work), then its whatever he says.
Of course, for the cost of a +3 weapon, you can get a +1 Impact which would essentially be permanent Lead blades.
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As is, I believe permanency is only applicable on the spells it lists in the CRB. Now, if you want to ask your GM if he would allow it (the spell specifically says that GMs might allow different spells to work), then its whatever he says.
Of course, for the cost of a +3 weapon, you can get a +1 Impact which would essentially be permanent Lead blades.
And the fact that there is an existing weapon property that fills the role means I don't think many GMs would be open allowing houserules on it.
And the fact that there is an existing weapon property that fills the role means I don't think many GMs would be open allowing houserules on it.As is, I believe permanency is only applicable on the spells it lists in the CRB. Now, if you want to ask your GM if he would allow it (the spell specifically says that GMs might allow different spells to work), then its whatever he says.
Of course, for the cost of a +3 weapon, you can get a +1 Impact which would essentially be permanent Lead blades.
Not necessarily. You can make Comprehend Languages permanent, and there's an item for that, same with: Detect Magic, See Invisibility, Magic Fang, Darkvision...
However, you can't make Magic Weapon or Greater Magic Weapon permanent, which I think is telling.|
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And the fact that there is an existing weapon property that fills the role means I don't think many GMs would be open allowing houserules on it.As is, I believe permanency is only applicable on the spells it lists in the CRB. Now, if you want to ask your GM if he would allow it (the spell specifically says that GMs might allow different spells to work), then its whatever he says.
Of course, for the cost of a +3 weapon, you can get a +1 Impact which would essentially be permanent Lead blades.
Not necessarily. You can make Comprehend Languages permanent, and there's an item for that, same with: Detect Magic, See Invisibility, Magic Fang, Darkvision...
However, you can't make Magic Weapon or Greater Magic Weapon permanent, which I think is telling.
Magic weapon and greater target weapons, most of the other spells target personal or person.
Magic weapon and greater target weapons, most of the other spells target personal or person.And the fact that there is an existing weapon property that fills the role means I don't think many GMs would be open allowing houserules on it.As is, I believe permanency is only applicable on the spells it lists in the CRB. Now, if you want to ask your GM if he would allow it (the spell specifically says that GMs might allow different spells to work), then its whatever he says.
Of course, for the cost of a +3 weapon, you can get a +1 Impact which would essentially be permanent Lead blades.
Not necessarily. You can make Comprehend Languages permanent, and there's an item for that, same with: Detect Magic, See Invisibility, Magic Fang, Darkvision...
However, you can't make Magic Weapon or Greater Magic Weapon permanent, which I think is telling.
What's your point?
The game has a deliberately tiny list of stuff you can permanency on other people. It should probably be left tiny.
Permanent lead blades cannot be compared to the impact weapon quality. Lead blades would make any sword you have on hand pick up later or 3 months from now 1 size larger. Additionally. It has no physical outward change enemies can use to identify it, unlike enlarge person.
Lead blades affects the weapon and not the person, this is a big note of difference. Permanency is supposed to affect self only spells.
So unless your GM is happy for you enchant your weapon with lead blades as house rule, it'd be breaking at least 2 core rules. To balance things the price would probably have to be around the same price as a +1 weapon with an effect (8.3k+).
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Lead blades affects the weapon and not the person, this is a big note of difference. Permanency is supposed to affect self only spells.
So unless your GM is happy for you enchant your weapon with lead blades as house rule, it'd be breaking at least 2 core rules. To balance things the price would probably have to be around the same price as a +1 weapon with an effect (8.3k+).
Lead Blades is cast on the person not the weapon.
Permanency is a CRB spell, there is no update to the spell to include/exclude spells from other later sources.
If a GM really wanted to increase the available spell list eligible for permanency spell for his/her own game, this formula seems to a good reference: (Minimum Caster Level - 8) x 2,500 gp. Minimum caster level has to be at least 9 for spell levels 1 to 5.
The GM should up the minimum caster level to however prohibitively expensive he feels a permanent version of the spell should be in order to maintain balance.
I'd probably price Lead Blades similar to permanent Enlarge Person = 2,500 gp since that seems similar enough.
Just make a wand of it or an item that can cast it multiple times per day. You have to spend a round self buffing in combat. Or make a continuous use item.
1st level ranger spell, caster level 1, 1 minute per level duration,
Use activated item is spell level * caster level * 2000 * 2 for duration modifier, so price would be 4000 gp?
That doesn't seem right, I'm missing some cost factor.
since it exists as "impact" you can't make a cheaper version by the rules.
so the cost differential between a +1 and +3 weapon is 16,0000 gp, removing the space limitation of only on a weapon would be times 2...
so the cost for an endless lead blades would be 32,000gp plus whatever multiplier a GM deems allowing this enchantment to apply to all weapons (modifying other weapons without the +2 enchant on the weapon)
I'd say you should expect to pay "alot"
See, but there are no rules for what can be Permanency-ed. The spell doesn't say "You can only affect these spells." It just says these are spells Permanency works on.
And it ends with "The GM may allow other spells to be made permanent." To me, it doesn't seem like it is supposed to be an exclusive list. GM input is expected.
But there aren't any guidelines to what spells should be eligible except perhaps comparison to the spells that are on the list. Why can you make Detect Magic permanent, but not Detect Evil? The spell descriptions don't provide any help there. Why can you only make Darkvision permanent on yourself when it is Target: Creature touched? Again, no reason is apparent for the spell description.
But you don't have to go through every book for every spell. Did any of your players ask for a permanent Fly spell? No? Then it isn't a question you have to answer until one does.
Would I allow a permanent Leaden Blades? Probably not, but for an entirely different reason. Permanency says, "You first cast the desired spell and then follow it with the permanency spell" which strongly suggests to me that the caster of Permanency must also be the caster of the spell to be made permanent. All spells listed as options are Wiz/Sorc spells, Permanency is only a Wiz/Sorc spell. Since Leaden Blades is not a Wiz/Sorc spell, you wouldn't be able to cast them both. (Well you could with a Wiz 9/Ranger 4 but then only that character could make Leaden Blades permanent and only on himself)
My rule-of-thumb is anything I'd allow as a continuous magic item that replicates a spell (protection from evil, enlarge person, invisibility, blur, etc), I'd allow as a spell to be permanencied. I'd definitely can picture a one-time-use BBEG benefiting from that sort of thing.
Anyways, permanencied stuff can still be dispelled with the target DC stuck at set caster levels. One successful dispel and a character is out several thousand in gp.
since it exists as "impact" you can't make a cheaper version by the rules.
so the cost differential between a +1 and +3 weapon is 16,0000 gp, removing the space limitation of only on a weapon would be times 2...
so the cost for an endless lead blades would be 32,000gp plus whatever multiplier a GM deems allowing this enchantment to apply to all weapons (modifying other weapons without the +2 enchant on the weapon)
I'd say you should expect to pay "alot"
You can most certainly make an item that cast the spell for you. I'm not talking a permanent duration item, I'm talking about something like a wand, but has unlimited charges per day (which items like that exist, such as a Ring of Invisibility).
My rule-of-thumb is anything I'd allow as a continuous magic item that replicates a spell (protection from evil, enlarge person, invisibility, blur, etc), I'd allow as a spell to be permanencied. I'd definitely can picture a one-time-use BBEG benefiting from that sort of thing.
Anyways, permanencied stuff can still be dispelled with the target DC stuck at set caster levels. One successful dispel and a character is out several thousand in gp.
Dispel magic doesn't quite function that way.
Targeted Dispel: One object, creature, or spell is the target of the dispel magic spell. You make one dispel check (1d20 + your caster level) and compare that to the spell with highest caster level (DC = 11 + the spell's caster level). If successful, that spell ends. If not, compare the same result to the spell with the next highest caster level. Repeat this process until you have dispelled one spell affecting the target, or you have failed to dispel every spell.
For example, a 7th-level caster casts dispel magic, targeting a creature affected by stoneskin (caster level 12th) and fly (caster level 6th). The caster level check results in a 19. This check is not high enough to end the stoneskin (which would have required a 23 or higher), but it is high enough to end the fly (which only required a 17). Had the dispel check resulted in a 23 or higher, the stoneskin would have been dispelled, leaving the fly intact. Had the dispel check been a 16 or less, no spells would have been affected.
You can also use a targeted dispel to specifically end one spell affecting the target or one spell affecting an area (such as a wall of fire). You must name the specific spell effect to be targeted in this way. If your caster level check is equal to or higher than the DC of that spell, it ends. No other spells or effects on the target are dispelled if your check is not high enough to end the targeted effect.
If you target an object or creature that is the effect of an ongoing spell (such as a monster summoned by summon monster), you make a dispel check to end the spell that conjured the object or creature.
If the object that you target is a magic item, you make a dispel check against the item's caster level (DC = 11 + the item's caster level). If you succeed, all the item's magical properties are suppressed for 1d4 rounds, after which the item recovers its magical properties. A suppressed item becomes nonmagical for the duration of the effect. An interdimensional opening (such as a bag of holding) is temporarily closed. A magic item's physical properties are unchanged: A suppressed magic sword is still a sword (a masterwork sword, in fact). Artifacts and deities are unaffected by mortal magic such as this.
You automatically succeed on your dispel check against any spell that you cast yourself.
So, you could cast dispel on the item and surpress its magic for up to 4 rounds. However, if its an item that cast the spell and is continually reused by the owner than that wont do you much good on its own. You would need to surpress the item, and then dispel the magic on the character as well. If it was a continuous use item then the character would loose the bonus (like dispel on bracers of armor).
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The game has a deliberately tiny list of stuff you can permanency on other people. It should probably be left tiny.
Mojorat has the right of it. If your group is following the rules, lead blades cannot be made permanent on a person...unless the GM wants to include it on the list of spells that Permanency can affect.
As a GM, I wouldn't allow it.
Dispel magic doesn't quite function that way.
Targeted Dispel:One object, creature, or spell is the target of the dispel magic spell. You make one dispel check (1d20 + your caster level) and compare that to the spell with highest caster level (DC = 11 + the spell's caster level). If successful, that spell ends. If not, compare the same result to the spell with the next highest caster level. Repeat this process until you have dispelled one spell affecting the target, or you have failed to dispel every spell.
For example, a 7th-level caster casts dispel magic, targeting a creature affected by stoneskin (caster level 12th) and fly (caster level 6th). The caster level check results in a 19. This check is not high enough to end the stoneskin (which would have required a 23 or higher), but it is high enough to end the fly (which only required a 17). Had the dispel check resulted in a 23 or higher, the stoneskin would have been dispelled, leaving the fly intact. Had the dispel check been a 16 or less, no spells would have been affected.
You can also use a targeted dispel to specifically end one spell affecting the target or one spell affecting an area (such as a wall of fire). You must name the specific spell effect to be targeted in this way. If your caster level check is equal to or higher than the DC of that spell, it ends. No other spells or effects on the target are dispelled if your check is not high enough to end the targeted effect.
If you target an object or creature that is the effect of an ongoing spell (such as a monster summoned by summon monster), you make a dispel check to end the spell that conjured the object or creature.
If the object that you target is a magic item, you make a dispel check against the item's caster level (DC = 11 + the item's caster level). If you succeed, all the item's magical properties are suppressed for 1d4 rounds, after which the item recovers its magical properties. A suppressed item becomes nonmagical for the duration of the effect. An interdimensional opening (such as a bag of holding) is temporarily closed. A magic item's physical properties are unchanged: A suppressed magic sword is still a sword (a masterwork sword, in fact). Artifacts and deities are unaffected by mortal magic such as this.
Umm...we're talking about Permanency spell, not magic items.
So you can cast on the person, and might effect Permanency; or specifically target the Permanency itself. Not suppressed, dispelled.
Umm...we're talking about Permanency spell, not magic items.
So you can cast on the person, and might effect Permanency; or specifically target the Permanency itself. Not suppressed, dispelled.
Whoops. I saw:
My rule-of-thumb is anything I'd allow as a continuous magic item that replicates a spell (protection from evil, enlarge person, invisibility, blur, etc), I'd allow as a spell to be permanencied. I'd definitely can picture a one-time-use BBEG benefiting from that sort of thing.
Anyways, permanencied stuff can still be dispelled with the target DC stuck at set caster levels. One successful dispel and a character is out several thousand in gp.
And for some reason in my mind I thought he was talking about dispelling a magical item. I read the whole post, but my mind just left some gaps I suppose.
Yeah, has happened to me before too. Just trying to be helpful so we are all discussing the same stuff.
No it doesn't, it specifies several spells then says for anything not listed ask your GM. It would be ridiculous to expect a comprehensive list of every possible Permanency-able spell, which would become obsolete as soon as a new book came out anyway.
If the writers wanted Permanency to only apply to the spells listed, there would be no reason to have a line say other options are available. Since the GM can always change anything.
I answered his question as No, for a different reason. But that doesn't mean Permanency has a RAW implication that only the spells listed work, since it specifies others could work too.