Arcane pool, multiattack and natural weapons

Rules Questions

So, I'm thinking about building a lizardfolk magus. I'm hoping to make some weird combination of natural and manufactured attacks. And now, I'm wondering if certain things are legit. This is for a mainly theoretical build.

1) For a bab of +5:

Manufactured: +5, Claw: 0, Bite: 0

With multiattack:

Manufactured: +5, Claw: +3, Bite +3

Is this correct? It hinges on a PC being allowed to take multiattack, but a lizardfolk (with 2 claws and a bite) should qualify.

2) Arcane pool: has there been any rulings about arcane pool+natural weapons? From what I've been reading, there's nothing specifically for or against. Is that still the case?

3) Arcane pool and DR: does an arcane pool enhancement allow you to bypass DR? (IE, +3=cold iron, silver). I know it isnt the case for the magic weapon spell, but I'm uncertain for the arcane pool enhancement. I would tend to think yes, since otherwise a bladebound magus could never bypass DR (since he cant enhance his weapon through craft).

4) I heard it was legit to TWF (and spellstrike) as a magus with an unarmed strike. You can only spellstrike with one weapon, but it can add to your damage. Would that be legit?

Edited because I can't read.

Number 1 looks good assuming a one-handed weapon or lighter.

Also, I don't see why any magus abilities wouldn't work with natural weapons or unarmed strikes, provided that they don't state that manufactured weapons are required.

First, that im aware of you can't use any twf with spellcombat. (The ability kind of implies this is what your doing with spellcombat. I'm not sure if it is actually denied however) additionally for. 3/4 all those penalties are prohibitive.

Second, for most humanoids with 2 claws and a bite that use a weapon. While doing spell combat most of the appendages are in use.

A lizard man with +5 bab doing spell combat gets 1 spell 1 attack with a natural weapon at +3 and one bite at -2. The penalties for spell combat affect all melee attacks. All the limbs with claws are currently occupied. If he had multi attack the bite would be at -5 rather than -7.

Meh that was 1 attack with a manufactured weapon.

Lets see.

Spell Combat wrote:
At 1st level, a magus learns to cast spells and wield his weapons at the same time. This functions much like two-weapon fighting, but the off-hand weapon is a spell that is being cast. To use this ability, the magus must have one hand free (even if the spell being cast does not have somatic components), while wielding a light or one-handed melee weapon in the other hand. As a full-round action, he can make all of his attacks with his melee weapon at a –2 penalty and can also cast any spell from the magus spell list with a casting time of 1 standard action.
FAQ wrote:

When using spell combat, can the weapon in my other hand be an unarmed strike or a natural weapon?

Yes, so long as the weapon is a light or one-handed melee weapon and is associated with that hand. For example, unarmed strikes, claws, and slams are light melee weapons associated with a hand, and therefore are valid for use with spell combat. A tail slap is not associated with a hand, and therefore is not valid for use with spell combat.

Natural Attacks wrote:
Primary attacks are made using the creature’s full base attack bonus and add the creature’s full Strength bonus on damage rolls. Secondary attacks are made using the creature’s base attack bonus –5 and add only 1/2 the creature’s Strength bonus on damage rolls
Natural Attacks with Manufactured Weapons wrote:
Creatures with natural attacks and attacks made with weapons can use both as part of a full attack action (although often a creature must forgo one natural attack for each weapon clutched in that limb, be it a claw, tentacle, or slam). Such creatures attack with their weapons normally but treat all of their available natural attacks as secondary attacks during that attack, regardless of the attack’s original type.
Multiattack wrote:
The creature's secondary attacks with natural weapons take only a –2 penalty.

So, you could make a full attack with Natural Weapons, Bite +5, Claw +0, Claw +0

You could full attack with Natural Weapons and Multiattack, Bite +5, Claw +3, Claw +3

You could attack with a sword and natural weapons Sword +5, Bite +0, Claw +0

You could attack with sword, natural weapons with multiattack, Sword +5, Bite +3, Claw +3

Could you Spell Combat with a sword and natural attacks? The description of it being like TWF and the spell is the off hand weapon certainly seems to indicate that you can't use the claw as your free hand and attack with it. And while the FAQ states a non-hand attack isn't valid for Spell Combat, your sword qualifies and I don't see it stated in such a way that you couldn't qualify with the sword and still bite.

Cast, Sword +3, Bite -2
Cast, Sword +3, Bite +1 with Multiattack

And you could use Spell Combat with just natural weapons per the FAQ.

Cast, Bite +3, Claw -2
Cast, Bite +3, Claw +1 with Multiattack

And of course with Spellstrike you get an extra attack, but per the FAQ it must be with a hand.

Cast, Sword +3, Sword +3, Bite -2
Cast, Sword +3, Sword +3, Bite +1 Multiattack


Cast, Bite +3, Claw -2, Claw -2
Cast, Bite +3, Claw +1, Claw +1 Multiattack


Arcane Pool wrote:
At 1st level, a magus can expend 1 point from his arcane pool as a swift action to grant any weapon he is holding a +1 enhancement bonus for 1 minute.

You aren't really holding a natural weapon. So that would seem to be against using Arcane Pool on natural weapons. But I don't see any reason why you shouldn't be able to do so, since it also limits you to affecting only one weapon.

Arcane Pool wrote:
A magus can only enhance one weapon in this way at one time. If he uses this ability again, the first use immediately ends.

3) Well the caveat from Greater Magic Weapon/Fang isn't present in Arcane Pool. So I would go with Yes.

4)I would say your couldn't TWF, due to the description of Spell Combat stating it is already like TWF with a spell in the off hand and that the off hand must be "free."

However, you can certainly use an unarmed strike (or other natural weapon associated with the hand, per the FAQ) to deliver the extra attack you get from Spellstrike. This will be very similar to TWF (extra attack, -2 to all attacks) but I don't think you can TWF on top of that.

1) Correct.

2) No official ruling whether an unarmed strike, monk unarmed strike or natural weapon counts as a held weapon has been published.

3) Arcane pool does bypass DR, there is nothing implying otherwise. Magic Weapon is a special case, Arcana Pool does not reference it and thus isn't affected.

4) You can use an unarmed strike or claw or slam as your light melee weapon in spell combat, but you cannot use other attacks in addition to that (and the spell), as per the FAQ:
"Magus, Spell Combat: When using spell combat, do I specifically have to use the weapon in my other hand, or can I use a mixture of weapons (such as armor spikes and bites) so long as my casting hand remains free?

You specifically have to use the light or one-handed melee weapon in your other hand.

—Pathfinder Design Team, 04/05/13

So your bite and second claw would be useless in spell combat, as would be armor spikes, prehensile hair, talons, horns or whatever other additional attacks you can get e.g. with polymorph spells. So if you plan to primarily use spell combat, lizardman may not be the perfect race. If you only spell combat one or two rounds to get your buffs up and then full-attack, it's an option.
Keep in mind the alternative, build-wise: Play any race and cast Alter Self to take lizardman or even better troglodyte form. Trog has all attacks as primary, so you need no multiattack except when using a manufactured weapon.

Well, looks like my questions are answered. I was wondering if there where ways around the spell combat limitation, but it looks like that it's not the case. (I was also thinking maybe manufactured weapon+wizard hook, but it looks like it's impossible).

They do say "make all his attacks with a melee weapon", and not "make a full attack", so I guess there's no way around it. Too bad.

I still do think there could be some interesting synergy (namely, it seems like the easiest way to make natural attacks go through DR). The bite would be useless though.

I know this is far from an ideal situtation, I'm just trying to see what is/isnt possible to do. I've been trying to make a natural attacks build that works up to high level, but it aint obvious at low cost.

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