A question for everyone about the timing of cards that might give you the chance to encounter an extra card.
I posted on Mike's thread, but I think it got lost in the flow.
Now, we all know that you can encounter cards out of turn (e.g. when a horde of goblin raiders attacks) but you can only explore on your own turn.
Mike has said that cards that give you an extra exploration (e.g. discard a blessing for to explore again) must be played on your own turn after you've done your first exploration, and this is reflected in the timing doc I put together.
The question is, when can you play cards like Detect Magic and Detect Evil? These cards let you look at the top card (which may be useful in itself) and then *might* give you the choice to also encounter that card.
The FAQ says that these should be played on your own turn only. Are they also restricted further to only being playable after you have already explored once?
Can you play them before your 'free' explore?
Could/should they be changed (house-ruled and/or FAQ-ed) to let you use them any time but only activate the 'encounter the card you found' bit if you played them on your own turn (in the right timing window)?
And, underlying this all, is there any difference between 'explore' and 'encounter' when used on card powers? Or are all cards/powers that let you encounter/explore limited to being played only on your own turn after your first 'free' exploration?
Over to you all for ideas and feedback!
I was just going to contact you on this point since i saw you crossed dettect magic off the anytime window list.
While it is true it cannot be played on another players turn, it is playable during the documents anytime windows for your turn.
I asked this question awhile ago and got a reply from Mike
Tracker1 wrote:
Bit of a discussion going on over on BGG thread about cards cards that let you interact with a location.
These cards like Augury, detect evil/magic, Spyglass, Seelah's power.
So the question after one of these are used can you still move an explore somewhere else?
Mike's reply
Yes.
So, it seems like detect magic/evil are in the anytime window for a players turn, but cannot be played at anytime on another players turn.
One more thing in the in your doc. In the anytime section you have Charisma, do you mean the spell Glibness?
OK, I just has a look at the Playing cards before moving thread you refered to.
From there, Mike's response seems to indicate that you play these cards at any time, but only on your own turn. Makes sense, I guess, since that ties in with the FAQ for these cards.
I must say that I find it strange that there is a restriction to prevent you using them on somebody else's turn. If you can use these cards to 'encounter' a card before you even move then that's already outside of your usual 'explore' window, so why not just let it happen at any time (increasing the tactical possibilities and co-operative elements of the game)?
Still, I digress.
I'll update the timing docs to note that these cards can be played at any time (subject to the FAQ's limitation that they must be played during your own turn).
I'll also correct the Charisma -> Glibness typo. Thanks for the spot! There's a reason why you're the tracker, @Tracker1!
Yeah, it's a bit odd they changed those two cards to be only usable on your turn.
If you read through that whole thread, Vic and Mike seem pretty supportive of using them cooperatively. So, i was a bit surprised to see the change in the FAQ.
Although i can see some serious issues that might come up. Let's say a player uses detect evil on another players turn and encounters the Villain. If they choose to encounter the Villain, then this is happening on the other players turn. Now the active player may be attempting to temporarily close a location. It just seems like it would create all sorts of weird timing issues that alter the rules too much.
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Actually, Seelah's power has to be used at the start of her turn, per the wording of the power. I can understand restricting Detect Magic, Detect Evil, and Shalelu to your own turn, since those can trigger encounters.
But why would Augury and Spyglass be restricted to your own turn? Those never trigger encounters.
Augury and Spyglass can be played on other players turns, so no problem there.
Augury and Spyglass can be played on other players turns, so no problem there.
+1 for this - they are not restricted at all (AFAIK!).
There's a discussion among the development team going on about this. Will let you know when it resolves.
Thanks, Mike!
@Tracker1 - I just had a chance to check my cards. As I thought, Detect Evil explicit prevents you from encountering Henchman or Villains.
When I first played the game I thought this was to stop you dealing with them out of turn (i.e. it prevents the timing complications you mentioned). I now understand that they just stop you encountering a henchman/villain for free as part of the spell (part of me wonders why, though... maybe just because these are basics?).
I don't actually see any complications per se from allowing these cards to be played on other characters' turns (but it might make the game too easy or break it in some other way I haven't thought of).
Right, I have not looked at the card recently.
Curious. Nowi'm not sure why they needed to make the change.
@Mike
Very curious about this comment. Wondering if it means that augury and spyglass may be changed to on your turn only, or if it means detect magic/evil are being reconsidered.
It's probably about the first. If those cards are changed the pool of cards that can be played at any time during another players turn is starting to shrink.
Playing cards on another players turn will mostly be related to specific situations.
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I can see why they wouldn't want you to initiate your own encounter on someone else's turn. It could be strong enough to be possibly unbalancing, not to mention screwing up the order of encounters, which could lead to confusion. So I'd be perfectly fine with a "no playing card powers that might start an encounter unless it's your turn" ruling.
I'm just curious about the timing of when Detect Magic, Detect Evil, and presumably Shalelu (the ally that lets you peek and possibly encounter in a similar way) can be used on your turn. Does it have to be after your free explore?
I just hope that the scouting cards like Spyglass and Augury that don't initiate encounters can still be used on other players' turns. Letting a spellcaster use Augury to set up the fight for Valeros, or maybe just scout for weapons for him to acquire, is just good teamwork.
We definitely don't want to prohibit examining cards on someone else's turn. Spyglass and Augury are safe. Shalelu and Ilsoari Gandethus are being looked at along with the Detects.
@Mike - are you considering something along the lines of making the Detect spells playable at any time, but changing the encounter wording to something like "If it is your turn and the card has the magic trait you may choose to encounter the card."?
That's certainly been proposed. As a general rule, we don't make changes until we've playtested what we're talking about changing.
When you have to play seriously it might take *some* of the fun out of it :)
But, hey, if you're looking for an English playtester with no RPG experience and a love of card/board games in general just give me a shout and I'd be happy to suffer some of that strain for you.
wow what a lousy job you must have. You have PLAY at work... that must so suck
As I say over and over, "Just because we have the best problems in the world doesn't mean they aren't problems."
I think being able to cast them on your own turn before moving would be supportive of the fiction.
"Let me see if there is evil ahead before I/we go any further here."
If you can't, then there is not much point in a divination spell, it serves only the purpose of knowing what's there so you don't run into it blindly.
I can understand the delicacy with which it must be handled though, since exploring is so integral to the games core mechanics.
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Yeah, as I've mentioned elsewhere (especially the scouting thread), Detect Magic is my favorite basic card in the game. All of my spellcasters take it, and I almost always cast it before blindly exploring. Otherwise, what's the point? And I could totally see casting it before deciding if you want to stay with the current location or move to another one.
And from a totally non-balance perspective, this is also how it plays out in the RPG. I've actually joked about how it should be in the RPG game rules that Detect Magic and Read Magic are required cantrips for every spellcaster. And we always have one spellcaster who just spams Detect Magic over and over throughout the adventure, checking every room to see if it can find hidden magical treasure, and checking every door before opening it, just to see what we can detect.
No... you can play the Spyglass at any time no matter where you are. There is no 'when you are at the same location as the active character' written on the cards so "don't invent one" as Mike says!
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Spyglass and Augury can be cast any time, to explore the cards of your own location deck. This is most useful when someone in the group (possibly just yourself) is at that location to take advantage, but they don't have to be. You could just stack the deck in your team's favor and leave it for someone else to come exploring several turns later.
We definitely don't want to prohibit examining cards on someone else's turn. Spyglass and Augury are safe. Shalelu and Ilsoari Gandethus are being looked at along with the Detects.
Maybe I missed (or can't find) if anything was said about these cards. But was anything said about Shalelu and Ilsoari? I'm assuming the intent is that you can't play a card that allows you encounter a card from a location deck on your turn. Therefore, you could play Ilsoari (since the encounter is a summoned card if it happens). You could recharge Shalelu but not discard her, so maybe she should be understood as "On your turn" for that power.
Ah, I got caught up in reading this thread and didn't read the cards. My bad. Thanks.