
DSXMachina |

After having watched a few Dresden Files pbp's on these forums, one of the main problems getting it off the ground is the City Creation aspect.
There are 2 ways of doing it for a pbp;
My advise is start crafting a few Places and Personalities you'd like to see in your game. Craft a world together and that should enable either one of you to pick up the reigns or allow a GM to see you're serious.
*IMO GM'ing in Dresden is interesting as it's a collaborative effort, you combine to make the story. Plus the system doesn't require that much mastery.
Just my 2cents.

The Quite-big-but-not-BIG Bad |

I'd be in with collaborative city building. Seems cool!
(with the disclaimer that I'm not from the US, so my entire knowledge base of US cities is based on American media)
I suspect that anything but the Dresden Files' FATE system would quite simply not feel appropriate in play since it would have a radically different magic system.

Robert Merrow |
I'd be down to create a city and hope a GM thinks we're worth it. :D
Any votes? I personally don't feel like we need to be in the US, BIG Bad. Where ever you're from could be quite cool (I mean, its not like the supernatural is limited to America.) ;)
If we do go US though, I'd cast my vote for Portland, Oregon. It's one of my favorite places I've ever lived, and it already has this very mysterious supernatural vibe to it thanks to all the mist, mountains, dark woods, and old smuggler's tunnels. Plus its a bit on the small side as far as cities go, so we could probably finish its creation sooner. :D

The Quite-big-but-not-BIG Bad |

Not sure if there's a SRD or something of them?
If we're gonna vote on cities my votes would probably be New Orleans > Maine/New England > either Berlin, London or Amsterdam.
1) New Orleans: come on, there's no city in the USA with more of a supernatural vibe! Everything about it (in American media) oozes mythology and almost Grimm-style new world fairy tales.
I've actually had an idea for a Fallout RPG stewing in my head for a few weeks set in the remains of New Orleans, just because of the parallels you could make between the Mississippi and the river Styx.
2) Maine (or New England in general): the location of almost every single one of Stephen King's books and reportedly a place where weird stuff happens.
3) Berlin, Amsterdam or London: toughy. All big old world cities with lots of culture and unique elements. London is kinda obvious of course, almost every single old-world urban fantasy is set there. Berlin is an amazing city with a rich culture and history and incredible psychological and architectural scarring from both the WWs and the Berlin wall. Can you imagine what the local equivalent of the Demonreach Genius Loci would be like there? Scary stuff. Language barrier might be a problem though. Amsterdam is also interesting, lots of culture, very much water-attuned and the parallels between the 'Grachten' (concentric circular moats throughout the city, centered in the ehm... center of the city) and the Circles of Hell is just too delicious (which was explored in Camus' The Fall). Little language barriers since everybody speaks English anyway and I can translate almost everything. Biggest problems I see are the IMHO bland nature of Dutch mythology and the general preconception of 'HOOKERS AND WEED' that most non-Dutchies can't seem to shake :)
I'd prefer a US city though, easier since most people here probably are American, the books are set there, guns are mostly legal there, we're all familiar with the media and probably most of the mainstream culture and you can explore the differences between the old world higher Echelons of the White Council and the less old-fashioned Wizards from the US.
[Edit]: although Portland, Oregon also sounds cool. I know very little about the city though

The Quite-big-but-not-BIG Bad |

Hadn't even thought of the Katrina disaster impact.
I was mostly thinking about the fact that is was one of the biggest slave trading ports on the continent. That's gotta leave nasty residue, even after so many years. Taken into account that is also was the largest and most prosperous community of African Americans in the US at that time, there should be a wealth of vengeful spirits there that hate everyone and everything.

Robert Merrow |
Alright. Well it seems Portland's been vetoed haha.
I'm down with New Orleans. I'll miss the mountains but its not like I'd really see them anyway.
Berlin is my second choice, huge street art community there (thinking of non-supernatural aspects of my character as well) and I'm in the process of teaching myself German so it would be a fun way to force myself to practice haha.
Anyway, it sounds like we've pretty much settled on a city.
New Orleans? All in favor confirm your votes. This way we wont mistakenly assume everyone's fine with it.
As far as not having the rule books, Kana, I haven't actually looked in them too much. Only a quick glance the first time and I'm not going to have access until later tonight :( so I can't tell you for sure how much you'd be handicapped.
If it looks to be a big deal though, I'll let you know. If worst comes to worst and you can't find a copy of the books, I could send you any info you might want through PMs. (Such as what PC options are, and how they work)
Once we get that far, we might be better off posting general rule discussions in the thread as well. This way we can make sure we're all on the same page as far as how Game Mechanics work.
Quick recap: Everyone confirm whether you're cool with New Orleans or not, from there we can proceed to whatever the next step is.

Robert Merrow |
Ok sweet. Looks like we've got everyone's official vote except Darth's. At this point we have majority rule, but I'd argue to give him until tonight (after all, I'm not sure how far we can until we've got some reading done anyway.)
That being said, I see no reason why we can't get a little bit of real world research started now.
From what I've managed to gather from Google Maps, the 5 major sections of the city are: Metairie, Gentilly, Viavant-Venetian Islands, New Orleans proper, and New Orleans East Area. Other subsections exist, and we can further break that up as we go. But for now focusing on the major areas seems wisest.
Anyone have any preferences for which areas of town they'd like to look into more? If not I'm fine with a simple assignment system. Hit me back and we can start, I'll be checking in again in about an hour or two.

The Quite-big-but-not-BIG Bad |

I've got no preference myself.
Semi-side-note, after a quick google search for Dresden Files PbP city building I found three relatively well-developed versions of Washington DC.
Might save us a bit of trouble, although the Big Easy would be more iconic.
http://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/168155/dresden-files-rpg-low-prof ile-ooc
http://dresden.forumotion.com/forum
http://dresdendc.wikispaces.com/
[Edit]: also just discovered that somebody else recruited for a DF PbP set in New Orleans on this very site! I PMed him to see he had any advice or even kept his notes on the setting.

Robert Merrow |
Ok, well, I guess that's the first order of business.
Do we want to keep our original vote for New Orleans? or go with DC because it's been done for us?
Second, if we stick with New Orleans we'd be figuring out different things about the town. Admittedly I'm not sure what really matters in relation to the RPG, but I can make a few guesses.
1) Cool sites for potential encounters.
2) Something akin to Macinally's (PS blame any potential spelling errors on the fact that I have the audio books not the hard copies)
3) Any locations for law enforcement, firemen, or any other form of government work stations. (Both vanilla mortal and supernatural)
4) Night Life locations (Probably a lot of those on Bourbon Street) or any other place where the supernatural can happen "out in the open" while retaining anonymity.
5) Anything we might find cool or interesting, or that we could use to develop our back stories.
6) Our character's homes. (PS if you aren't finding anything you like for this in your area, feel free to ask around. It's possible one of us found something more like what you're looking for)
I'm sure some of us will find more of one thing than another, we'll have to keep up communications as we go through this.
Will update/correct our checklist tonight once I skim through the city building chapter. Until then, it might be best to simply look at your section and get a general feel for it instead of trying to find anything specific.
Finally, Bourbon Street is in Downtown New Orleans. I'll assign us sections with that in mind Dr.
DrBuzzard: New Orleans proper/ Downtown New Orleans
Kana: Viavant-Venetian Islands
BIG: Gentilly
Darth: Metairie
Me: East New Orleans
OK. So unless we decide to go with DC that's the break down. I'm all for city building though, it seems like part of the fun to me. (PS, that's my vote)
PPS: Good find BIG, hope your PM works out for us :D

Robert Merrow |
Ok, so looking at the RPG book itself. This is the checklist they suggest we look into when making the city.
neighborhood map (having the names of neighborhoods is important)
folklore, magic, ghost stories
humor, jokes
[urban] legends
historical maps
politics
crime
dialect
If we each look up this type of thing for our respective neighborhoods, we'll be on track. (Now back to the rule book so I can figure out how to apply such knowledge)

Robert Merrow |
I've only read through half of the city building chapter (it's one of the longest ones and I figured we had plenty to go with for now)
Once we figure out ghost stories and strange legends and what not, we need to find a way to tie them in with both our characters, and the city's map.
New Orleans ended up being an extra great choice for that. Something that hadn't crossed my mind until reading is how ridiculous it would be casting spells over the Mississippi and out over its many other bodies of water. Which can tie in to some of our next steps.
We need to come up with a list of problems for New Orleans, both long term and short term
They break them down into Themes (Long term problems) and Threats (Short term)
For the over all city, they suggest 1 to 3 total problems (combining themes and threats). It actually says no more than that.
Later, we come up with a couple specific locations per player (these would be in our assigned neighborhoods) and come up with either a theme or threat for each one.
Once we get that done we tie in both the mundane world and the supernatural one, but i'll cover that once we get there. No sense overloading our work plate.
[EDIT] Also, none of this requires understanding of the rules yet. That comes into play later in our process. For now they just want us thinking about things in terms of story, and what we as individuals would like to see/face. Speaking of which, what kind of adventure would we like to have?
-Heavy action?
-Political intrigue?
-Mystery solving?
-etc etc.
Also, what types of foes would we like to face?
-Fey Courts?
-Vampires? (Which courts)
-Mob Bosses?
-Dragons?
-Ghouls?
-Necromancers?
-Sorcerers/Warlocks?
-Etc

Kana |

Well there could be Hoodoo magic going around in the bayou, that is believed to be Voodoo at first? I could see this fitting in with perhaps an upsert of power is happening in the city?
EDIT:
Types of foes:
Fey - They work anywhere and I greatly enjoy seeing them around, even if it's opposing them
Hoodoo Practitioners - Hoodoo is more magic than voodoo (which is more religion), and was brought over by African Slaves. Hoodoo uses Catholic Saints as a means to hide.
I'll add more later when I think of more but those are what I can think of for now.

The Quite-big-but-not-BIG Bad |

Sounds good!
I'd kinda argue against mystery solving since that might require intimate knowledge of the city itself. Political intrigue sounds pretty cool but I'd wager that in a PbP game the discussions might take ages, since you really have to watch your words.
The types of foes:
1) Fey: personally, I'm in love with the Fey from the Dresden Files. I'd love to include a minor fallen Fey court. I like the idea of minor female-headed Courts related to another seasonal- or cycle-based theme and minor male-headed Courts related to other primal or natural themes.
Examples of Queenly Courts: could be the Court of High Tide, the Court of First Snow, the Court of Rains.
Examples of Kingly Courts: the Court of the Hunted, the Court of Storms, the Court of Raptors.
I'd also love to include the idea of the 'Goblin Market', a place in the Nevernever or on the border where the supernatural and natural overlap. A place where treasures, secrets, souls, promises, firstborn names, memories and much more esoteric items are traded.
2) Underground: with an as vibrant community as NO and a major port connected to one of the biggest cities on the continent, there must be a large criminal element that is connected to smuggling, human trafficking and possibly theft of special objects. It would be cool to include an underground market for magical items (I was actually playing with the idea of a mundane cat burglar specializing in magical items). The smugglers would also need protection of their shipments at certain dangerous moments (Halloween comes to mind) or hire 'specialists' to deal with competitors or a shipment gone wrong.
3) The Undead: ghosts, ghouls and creepy cultists! New Orleans has a long and bloody history and is associated with plenty of Voodoo. We have to do something with that. The metaphysical scarring of the Mississippi river and the areas hit by Katrina must be enormous! (hm.. just thought of this: what better place to dump a Wizard's body that the Mississippi?).
I also can't wait to include a cultist plot during Mardi Gras, possibly involving mass sacrifice of partying students.

Kana |

I'm in favor of a lesser fey court. And I had debated about saying something about having undead as well. Mix in some Voodoo/Hoodoo with that and I see tons of fun.
Perhaps there is an Underground market that deals in both magical and non-magical items? You just have to know who to talk to to get what you want.
Actually I think I'm going to go ahead and say I like the three ideas you presented BIG, fits with what I was leaning towards as well. They probably need more fleshing out, but they are a good start

Rigor Rictus |

I'd be interested in trying to help get this off the ground. Don't think I'm willing to commit to GMing at this point, as I'm already running three games on the boards, plus my RL group. I would love to play however. Like some others here, I think I've made a character three times but failed to see the game ever get started.

Robert Merrow |
No worries BIG, i'm the same way. In fact I'm working on publishing my first book as the result of such tendencies.
Also, I'm a huge fan of the Sidhe both in real world myth and as portrayed in the Dresden Files. It seems the three of us agree there :D
Your lesser fey court option really works too, I'm seeing a sort of Vassal State set up with each of these lesser kingdoms beholden to Mab, Titania, or Der Erlkonnig (wild court) but still retaining enough sovereignty to act on their own. However, if they get out of hand one of the greater fey monarchs may pop in for a quick visit (and a reminder of who's really the boss here). Maybe that's what Katrina was caused by, a storm-oriented court tried to rebel against Titania and something went down? Of course the result was a restoration of balance in the fey world while causing an imbalance in the realms of the dead and the psychic energy left over.
Your idea of an underground Goblin Market / Black Market for magic is especially intriguing. I'm a huge fan of that actually. Maybe its run by a mortal crime boss who's "in the know" or perhaps a dragon is using this as a way to greatly increase his hoard size, or maybe the fey are behind this as well (after all, who better to supervise deal making). Perhaps all three are involved and have a sort of power struggle for dominance.
We could have a sort of Caper Story like "The Italian Job" "Indiana Jones" or "Reservoir Dogs" at least for bits involving the market. Perhaps your character is sponsored by one of the groups, BIG?
(We can bounce between play styles as we move on from story arc to story arc as well (Sort of like the difference between "Storm Front" and "Changes" and how all the other books are different as well, the PHB actually recommends we do that))
As far as a cult like thing during Marti Gras, I could see some heavy White Court activity involved as well, either as part of the cult, in addition to it, or opposed to it. After all, a giant festival about ignoring your inhibitions seems like a great way to get the kine to show up for slaughter.
In fact, depending on how we flesh out that idea, we could have that be the basis for our first play through, we could all be caught up in the wrong place at the wrong time during a particularly violent/scary play from this cult, the white court, or some anti-supernatural group.
The only thing it feels like we're a little light on is vanilla mortal activity, but we can always brain storm more for that later.
In any case, we have plenty to go on now. Our follow up is to find locations that might be good backdrops for any of these ideas within the city itself. Wikipedia, travel guides, and google maps will be our friends.
I'm thinking that nature park between Viavant-Venetian Islands and East New Orleans would be a great place to host at least one of our lesser fey courts, and Bourbon street is an obvious choice to work into something. In addition to grander things like neighborhoods we'll need to find specific landmarks (Think Golden Gate Bridge, or Eiffel Tower) and local hangouts both good and bad (MacAnally's and Boch Ordered Books, as well as St Mary of the Angels and the Velvet Room)
Well, refer to my previous post for your section and come up with a few locations in your areas, post back later today. At that point I think our next step will be nailing down the Threats and Themes.

Robert Merrow |
Awesome Sauce :D
Rictus, since you're not assigned anything in my previous list, would you be cool with looking up local news stories about the crime and politics of the city at large? both solved and unsolved cases as well as any and all mortal powers involved in the city's mundane life?
I'd like to get a feel for what our road blocks might be in the mortal world, and also anything we could use to tie it into the supernatural.
Thanks

The Quite-big-but-not-BIG Bad |

Coolio, welcome aboard Rictus!
We could of course also pilfer the settings in my links for stuff that we can adapt :)
Concerning vanilla mortal activities and the Goblin Market: it might be an idea that the Goblin Market is able to manifest in the mortal world or is accessible from the mortal world only through a covenant between the (mysterious?) organizers from the Nevernever and a vanilla mortal. The supernatural patrons of the market would need an invitation to the mortal realm to manifest in the market. Possibly the magical boundary that also prevents supernatural things from accessing homes is all-present in the world. While not strong enough to prevent access, it might be strong enough to prevent supernatural mercantilism and deal-making. The supernatties would need permission to conduct business in territories of mortal 'lords'.
The Goblin Market would manifest in a cyclic manner (once every month?) and vanilla mortal gangs and organizations would try to obtain tradeable items (cash would be useless in the Market). There could also be battles between vanilla mortal gangs to get dominance in the territory that is likely to host the next Goblin Market so that the mysterious merchant masters would need to cut a deal with the 'lord' that holds the territory at the moment.
I agree with wanting other vanilla mortal activities. Maybe mortal smuggler and trafficking gangs (how else are rogue mages gonna get their hands on eye of leopard or the livers of left-handed twin boys?) or mercenary agencies. I'd love to see a sort of supernatural support group for vanilla mortals who traumatized but can't speak to psychologists without being institutionalized.
One thing I've always kinda missed in the Dresden Files is a witch-hunter type organization of supernatural-phobic muggles.

Robert Merrow |
Haha that's because the white council tries to keep those witch hunter's down :p but that doesn't mean they've caught them all.
About your threshold idea for the market, it would be in high conflict with a predetermined law of magic in the novels, (and possibly in the game rules) in that, thresholds can't settle over places of business. But I think I found a clever work around. Perhaps the mortals that deal with the goblin market (or at least the mortal coordinator) are a member of the Unseelie Accords, like Marcone (later in the books), the Knights of the Cross, the Danarians, and Pharofax. Not powerful enough to be granted true "nationhood" but recognized as sort of supernatural "City States."
Thus, violation of the Markets rules would bring about punishment from the supernatural law enforcements. Perhaps while within the market, one is subject to the total mercy of its enforcers, so its best to keep a low profile. Causing a scene or breaking any laws too overtly would cause undue attention, and thus potential punishment. And while in the market, you're not protected by your affiliations. (Therefore, someone caught and punished for a crime wouldn't be subject to any semblance of diplomatic immunity, sort of like how Dresden had to choose between Susan and Michael at Bianca's party. One of them was technically not under his protection)
That example brings to mind another possibility, perhaps one is only allowed in the market with expressed invitation? Of course millions show up without it, but perhaps they are giving up their rights under the Accords to do so.

Robert Merrow |
On a separate note, I like the idea of cyclical appearance. But every month seems a bit too close to loup garou curses to me.
But, we could further blend some elements, Perhaps the market is always there, but follows the cycle of the tides. Only at high tide on sunset can one gain entry or exit (or something similar to that). Perhaps the entrance is actually underwater, and by swimming through a specific beach cave or drainage canal during high tide can one enter it from the mortal world. You're technically not "leaving the earth" but at the same time you're "entering the Nevernever" in a fashion similar to how Dresden entered Maeve's little shindig during his investigations in Summer Knight. It wasn't a magical portal so much as a door that lead to multiple places and needed a guide or incredible luck/savvy to get to the "right" place.
[EDIT] Its possible that the market is in sort of an Istanbul of sorts on the Nevernever. And by that I mean a crossroads of the world type vibe. It could have multiple portals to various places, Summer, Winter, The Abyss, etc. and that's what makes it so popular of a spot. Of course, one of its "gates" would lead to the Big Easy.
DrBuzzard, it's looking like most of the hauntings and ghost stories happen in the French Quarter, which is part of Downtown New Orleans or maybe just another name for the same area. It seems like you'll be in charge of finding some nifty legends for us. :D

The Quite-big-but-not-BIG Bad |

Good points, although I did kinda like the idea of a constant frantic battle for certain territories between vanillas, kinda like a constant 'king of the hill' battle :P
IIRC it's mentioned in the books that Marcone is the only muggle who is a member of the Unseelie Accords. He is the only one but maybe not necessarily the first. Maybe a long-dead vanilla power figure signed the Accords and made a deal with the Goblin Market that it could manifest once a month if they paid him. While the original vanilla lord has been dead for more than a century, the contract he signed with the Goblin Market had a loophole as it defined the lord as the 'current owner of the location'. The one who owned the territory that the GM is gonna manifest in basically becomes a temporary and location-specific member of the Unseelie Accords.
Concerning the witch hunters: wouldn't the White Council be the kind of guys who secretly tolerate that kind of organization as long as they keep their hands off WC members and possibly female practitioners (as they carry the wizardly genes)? It would be a really convenient way to keep non WC practitioners, dark mages, vampires, fey and other undesirables down.

Robert Merrow |
As far as witch hunters, I'm just going based on what dresden said in the books. They do their own witch hunts with the warden, but only against those who are potentially going to increase awareness of wizard's in a bad way. They are trying to discourage mortals awareness of wizards so that they don't have another Spanish Inquisition. That's part of why Dresden is as unloved as he is by most of the WC, he advertises his magic. In fact, if it wasn't for the fact that most mortals think he's crazy they'd probably have killed him themselves, despite McCoy's interceding.
But you have a good idea and there's no reason we can't have a minor group that the WC missed or maybe uses to keep tabs on local warlocks. Maybe this group is partially in the dark and thinks it knows more than it does? maybe it was set up by a WC member and is, in fact, a fully aware and loyal to the WC (or Black Council... dun dun DUUUUNNNNN)?
And I agree, nearly constant turf wars over the Goblin Market would be exciting/interesting, and leads us into a very nice section of the next part of the process, so I do want to incorporate it as well. We'll have to figure out a way to get there that we all like.
Perhaps Kana, Buzzard, Darth, or Rictus should weigh in. Getting alternate perspective would be useful.

Kana |

Sorry for not chiming in sooner. I'm at work and reading/researching/posting when I can.
Maybe the power of the WC is weak in NO? Maybe there's a group there that chooses to govern the city itself because of Katrina (which i did like that it may have been a Fey Smackdown happening). This means that things are not done the same here.
Perhaps the Goblin Market can be like Sigil in a way? Has portals all over the place, though one has to know where to find them and maybe even have to have a key of sorts.
What if the whole turf war is about gaining control of the city? It could be because one of the easiest to access portals to the GM is in NO. Thing about the power it would bring to the person/group able to control access to the GM.