| 25 people marked this as FAQ candidate. 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
From "piecemeal armor" in the Ultimate Combat PRD:
If the dragonhide used to construct this armor comes from a dragon that had immunity to an energy type, the armor pieces also have immunity to that energy type, but only confer the immunity on the wearer if he is wearing a suit of armor made entirely of dragonhide from the same type of dragon.From Special materials in equipment in CRB PRD:
Dragonhide: Armorsmiths can work with the hides of dragons to produce armor or shields of masterwork quality. (...) If the dragonhide comes from a dragon that had immunity to an energy type, the armor is also immune to that energy type, although this does not confer any protection to the wearer. If the armor or shield is later given the ability to protect the wearer against that energy type, the cost to add such protection is reduced by 25%.
The bolded parts seem in direct contradiction. The relevant passage is stated to apply to "a suit of armor made entirely of dragonhide", which includes standard non-piecemeal armor as well (a normal suit of armor not purchased piece-meal is in fact composed of pieces per the piecemeal rules, as it's pieces can be replaced with other types of armor, the remaining pieces of the suit of course being "pieces"), so on a rules as well as commmon-sense basis I don't see how these rules aren't discussing exactly the same thing but in a conflicting manner.
Also, I'm confused about the Piecemeal rules re: Special Materials and the specific example of Dragonhide.
The general rules states:
In order for the armor to gain the benefits of a special material, all armor pieces worn must be made of the same special material. Because of this, armor pieces constructed of special materials can be constructed at a decreased cost based on which pieces are made of the special material. Constructing a whole suit of armor with the same special materials uses the standard costs.
But then in Dragonhide it states:
A piece of dragonhide armor costs double the armor piece cost + 100 gp. Alternatively, a plate torso armor piece can be constructed from dragonhide for 700 gp, and an agile plate torso armor piece can be constructed from dragonhide for 1,100 gp; if either is worn alone, it bestows any energy damage immunity possessed by the dragon to the wearer.
Which contradicts the general rule, since the piece IS granting it's special benefit. Exceptions to rules can exist of course, but especially considering these passages are in exactly the same section, I would expect a more explicit recognition of any exception to the rule being layed out in the same section.
I would like this very much cleared up because as it stands, Ultimate Combat is a later book so I would believe that would take precedence.
There is no general rule that newer books take precedent.
When two rules sources conflict, that is just a situation that needs to be resolved via Errata.
Well, the last question is because a plate torso piece is a breastplate, so its technically a full suit.
To my knowledge there are no hard and fast rules for which controls. Since piecemeal armor is an optional ruleset, if your DM allows it then you should use all the rules in it. If your DM doesn't allow piecemeal rules, then you have to default to the core.
It's not really a rules conflict.
Ultimate Combat is just wrong, sort of like how it says that people with the Totem Warrior Archetype can select two Totems for rage powers.
Armorsmiths can work with the hides of dragons to produce armor or shields of masterwork quality. One dragon produces enough hide to make a single suit of masterwork hide armor for a creature one size category smaller than the dragon. By selecting only choice scales and bits of hide, an armorsmith can produce one suit of masterwork banded mail for a creature two sizes smaller, one suit of masterwork half-plate for a creature three sizes smaller, or one masterwork breastplate or suit of full plate for a creature four sizes smaller. In each case, enough hide is available to produce a light or heavy masterwork shield in addition to the armor, provided that the dragon is Large or larger. If the dragonhide comes from a dragon that had immunity to an energy type, the armor is also immune to that energy type, although this does not confer any protection to the wearer. If the armor or shield is later given the ability to protect the wearer against that energy type, the cost to add such protection is reduced by 25%.
Well, the last question is because a plate torso piece is a breastplate, so its technically a full suit.
Ah, that makes some sense, but I think that deserves Errata/FAQ on it's own, because besides just this special material, that logic would also apply to how masterwork and magic enchantments apply... "Pieces which count as (lesser) full armor suits" should be directly stated as an exception to the rule on how pieces function, or rather, that said rules don't apply to pieces that count as full armor suit.
It's not really a rules conflict.
Ultimate Combat is just wrong, sort of like how it says that people with the Totem Warrior Archetype can select two Totems for rage powers.
Well, I wouldn't be surprised if UC is wrong here, but the rule does conflict and either UC or (less likely) CRB should be Errata'd as appropriate, just as Totem Warrior was (I believe).
So that archetype does absolutely nothing? Why would they make an archetype that does nothing?
Huh.
In any case obviously this needs an errata.
Yea, the archetype does nothing.
Because archetypes were new and they weren't sure the direction they'd go. FAQ on that here.
Quandary, I'd just post this in the Ultimate Combat errata thread. I think Sean monitors those threads pretty closely.
It's now also posted there, but here is probably the best place for any 'discussion' people want to have on the subject...
And hitting FAQ on the top post can't hurt either (that may even be better than the Errata thread,
since it might more quickly lead to a FAQ entry, as opposed to just informing the next print run of UC)
If it had, it would say so next to "X people have marked this as a FAQ candidate."