If the right place for this is the "rules questions" forum or what have you, sorry for posting in the wrong place, but I guessed the best place for pathfinder society questions was in the society part of the board.
I know evil characters are not allowed in the society (For generally good reasons), however, can clerics be partners with evil deities? I don't know if that taints you too much to be a character, or if you can use your alignment step to be neutral and still be PFS legal.
I admit I'm mostly doing this for Animate Dead, but of course, rule #1 of making a posse of undead is be nice to the GM, so I want to know how everything plays out in the case of me making a necromancer neutral cleric of a evil god.
You can be a neutral cleric of an evil deity in PFS, but I would save that character concept for a real campaign if I were you.
Any sort of borderline alignment shenanigans really require meaningful DM-player communication of a degree that is not possible in PFS.
Yeah, I was sort of thinking that, but I live in a place where it's REALLY hard to get non-PFS games. So I'm sort of on the edge of trying it in the society. Thanks for the advice, though, I gotta think about it
I admit I'm mostly doing this for Animate Dead, but of course, rule #1 of making a posse of undead is be nice to the GM, so I want to know how everything plays out in the case of me making a necromancer neutral cleric of a evil god.
Animate Dead in society also follows its own rules(only allowed one undead to carry on from scenario to scenario if I remember correctly). Far easier to steal everyone else's undead as a bones oracle than actually create your own imo.
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You can carry one undead from scenario to scenario?
All spells and effects end at the end of a scenario with the following exceptions:
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A character may have one each of the following spells that carries overs [sic] from scenario to scenario: continual flame, masterwork transformation, secret chest, and secret page.
Not by casting animate dead, using Command Undead or other effects. The Undead Lord archetype that provides an undead companion as a class ability is not legal for play.
I have a neutral Cleric of Urgathoa in PFS, and he's worked out pretty well so far. He WAS an Undead Lord until they banned that Archetype for PFS play. I play him as an essentially Evil(ish) guy, who is forced to "play nice" in order to work within the confines of accepted Pathfinder behaviour.
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Unfortunately, the Juju Mystery which allowed undead creation (from the Serpent's Skull AP) is not on the 'Additional Resources' list, so I am pretty certain it is not legal for PFS...
...the 'updated' Juju Mystery in 'Faiths and Philosophies' *is* PFS legal (again, according to the 'Additional Resources' page), but it conspicuously has had the 'undead creation/command' revelations removed.
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An oracle or necromantic wizard might be better for this. The only god that would really fit for destroying the other gods would be ravogag or groetus, and they don't have an undead theme going.
Rahadoum sounds like a good country of origin to look into.
Your personal motivations are very unlikely to come up in pfs. You may want to have a character that thinks smaller with a more obtainable goal.
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weird. i could've sworn the one from city of seven spears was just there. i saw another thread about how it had just been updated recently.
is the undead creation/command revelation removed in the published material? because its no longer removed in the additional resources list.
Pathfinder Player Companion: Faiths & Philosophies
Archetypes: all archetypes on pages 10–11 and 13 are legal for play; Domains: all domains on pages 24–25 are legal for play. Note that Agent of Rebirth is replaced with, "At 8th level, the druid can cast an extended air walk spell as a spell-like ability once per day."Equipment: all items on pages 30–31 are legal for play except leshy mulch manual and tome of heretical revelation; Feats: all feats on pages 6–7, 11, 19, and 21 are legal for play; Inquisitions: all inquisitions on page 23 are legal for play; Mysteries: all mysteries on pages 14–15 are legal for play; Pantheons: all pantheons on page 21 are legal for play except demon lords; Spells: all spells on pages 28–29 are legal for play. Traits: all traits on the inside front cover except bound by honor are legal for play.
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I should have clarified what I meant; when I said that the 'undead creation/command' revelations had been removed, I meant that in the published material in Faiths and Philosophies, those revelations do not exist; they are only present in the 'original' version of the Juju Mystery, in City of Seven Spears (which is not PFS-legal).
the Juju Magic mystery for oracles is the only alignment ambivalent undead that are really okay in pfs i thought. Animating dead is a pretty evil act, and good clerics can't cast evil spells. ( i dunno if neutral clerics can, but it kinda violates the spirit ).
Since the god gives you the powers, neutral clerics of evil gods can, and he still counts as neutral I would think, considering his justification for necromancy over summoning and most of his actions being good.
An oracle or necromantic wizard might be better for this. The only god that would really fit for destroying the other gods would be ravogag or groetus, and they don't have an undead theme going.
Rahadoum sounds like a good country of origin to look into.
Your personal motivations are very unlikely to come up in pfs. You may want to have a character that thinks smaller with a more obtainable goal.
My character is a self described "partner" of Rovagug, whom I would think doesn't really care HOW the destruction happens, and would grant me the power to do so however I please. I also like making characters who are a little too overly ambitious.
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Forgive my asking, Arcutiys , but I'm curious as to why such a priest of utter destruction would join an organization dedicated to uncovering and preserving the treasures of the past.
I'm not saying it's impossible, but I'm wondering why this character became a Pathfinder field agent.
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Forgive my asking, Arcutiys , but I'm curious as to why such a priest of utter destruction would join an organization dedicated to uncovering and preserving the treasures of the past.
I'm not saying it's impossible, but I'm wondering why this character became a Pathfinder field agent.
Well damn man, I mean, every other person that went in the pathfinder society came out a complete wrecking ball, so what better way to learn more about the other planes and religions with artifact hunting, and get strong while doing it? (Basically his justification)
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I'll start by agreeing that your character concept is far better suited to a home campaign. Having gotten that out of the way:
-Yes, you can worship evil deities if you are a neutral cleric (within one alignment step of your deity)
- Lawful evil deities tend to be much better received in the Society. They may have evil goals and they may mislead you but you can count on their clerics to keep their word to the letter.
- Have you considered Achaekek as a deity? It is lawful evil and its entire reason for existence is the killing of gods. (Well, demigods.) (Not undead focused, though.)
I'll start by agreeing that your character concept is far better suited to a home campaign. Having gotten that out of the way:
-Yes, you can worship evil deities if you are a neutral cleric (within one alignment step of your deity)
- Lawful evil deities tend to be much better received in the Society. They may have evil goals and they may mislead you but you can count on their clerics to keep their word to the letter.
- Have you considered Achaekek as a deity? It is lawful evil and its entire reason for existence is the killing of gods. (Well, demigods.) (Not undead focused, though.)
I'm sort of trying to save it for a home game, however as previously stated, downtown Louisiana isn't the best place to find home games, even with the society.
And is Archaekek really focused on killing the gods? I thought I read that his assassin followers hated people who killed monarchs because they were "divinely appointed", which probably means they respect the gods too. He'd probably kick someone who was focused on killing/sealing away the higher gods (And royalty on the way) right out.
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Achaekek's purpose is actually to destroy those who would usurp the power of the gods. In other words humans (or others) who are getting too close to becoming gods and diluting the power of the existing Pantheon - or of killing a god themselves. Demigods, if you will. I realize it's not exactly what you are looking for, but it's the closest match I could think of that wouldn't be incredibly disruptive.
The problem is that the only deity who would grant you powers - given your original purpose - is Rovagug. Although I have seen clerics of Rovagug in PFS, they are never roleplayed (just roll-played) because to do so would eliminate you from Society play altogether.
As mentioned, an oracle is another option. They have access to the same spells as clerics but do not draw powers directly from a deity, so they are not beholden to ideals.
Achaekek's purpose is actually to destroy those who would usurp the power of the gods. In other words humans (or others) who are getting too close to becoming gods and diluting the power of the existing Pantheon - or of killing a god themselves. Demigods, if you will. I realize it's not exactly what you are looking for, but it's the closest match I could think of that wouldn't be incredibly disruptive.
The problem is that the only deity who would grant you powers - given your original purpose - is Rovagug. Although I have seen clerics of Rovagug in PFS, they are never roleplayed (just roll-played) because to do so would eliminate you from Society play altogether.
As mentioned, an oracle is another option. They have access to the same spells as clerics but do not draw powers directly from a deity, so they are not beholden to ideals.
** spoiler omitted **
That is probably the biggest difference there could be, between killing the gods and doing anything to protect them. I'm curious as to why you think it's impossible to roleplay as a cleric of Rovagug without being disruptive.
The problem is that the only deity who would grant you powers - given your original purpose - is Rovagug. Although I have seen clerics of Rovagug in PFS, they are never roleplayed (just roll-played) because to do so would eliminate you from Society play altogether.
There are actually quiet a few characters you could follow if your goal is destruction or anti-theism. Rovagog is just the only one who's clear in core. The four horsemen or Dahak for example. Orcus also happens to exist, but I don't remember if he's legal or how he is in pathfinder. Of course, you could always be an oracle and have divine powers and still usurp the gods without having to worry about which god you follow.
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That is probably the biggest difference there could be, between killing the gods and doing anything to protect them. I'm curious as to why you think it's impossible to roleplay as a cleric of Rovagug without being disruptive.
You want to destroy the planet.
The pathfinders want to keep the planet. Its where they keep all their stuff.
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That is probably the biggest difference there could be, between killing the gods and doing anything to protect them. I'm curious as to why you think it's impossible to roleplay as a cleric of Rovagug without being disruptive.You want to destroy the planet.
The pathfinders want to keep the planet. Its where they keep all their stuff.
Note to self, invest in moon.
That is probably the biggest difference there could be, between killing the gods and doing anything to protect them. I'm curious as to why you think it's impossible to roleplay as a cleric of Rovagug without being disruptive.You want to destroy the planet.
The pathfinders want to keep the planet. Its where they keep all their stuff.
I never said I want to destroy the planet? I said I want to destroy/seal away the gods so they don't MESS with the planet.
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That's not what Rovagug wants, though. You're a servitor of the Rough Beast, the thing that almost destroyed all creation once and would do so again once it escapes its prison. "His worshipers are savage monsters and human nihilists."
Now, it would be a cool idea to be given powers from Rovagug, believing that you were using them to protect Golarion, while all the while you were trying to seal away the gods who protect it from your terrible master.
That's not what Rovagug wants, though. You're a servitor of the Rough Beast, the thing that almost destroyed all creation once and would do so again once it escapes its prison. "His worshipers are savage monsters and human nihilists."
Now, it would be a cool idea to be given powers from Rovagug, believing that you were using them to protect Golarion, while all the while you were trying to seal away the gods who protect it from your terrible master.
I really don't think Rovagug, a god cast in to the core of the earth and enemies with every other god, who's only followers are usually savages who only challenge common NPCs, would be so picky as to say "Yeah, but...Look, I know you want to destroy all the gods so much you'd give up your normal life to do so, but...you don't want to stomp on kittens as you do so. Gotta let you go, man."
As for the quote about his followers, that's a guideline. I really don't think all followers of a certain god have to be the same.As for your second paragraph, that's more or less my character.
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That is probably the biggest difference there could be, between killing the gods and doing anything to protect them. I'm curious as to why you think it's impossible to roleplay as a cleric of Rovagug without being disruptive.
Oh, I agree it's not what you are looking for. Again, I think your idea would be fine for a home campaign but in PFS you just won't have the scope to have that come into play at all. Outside of muttering curses at the gods (always fun) you wont really be able to take any action that would support your original goal. I was attempting to come up with something that would be doable and yet still be able to influence your character in some way other than pure backstory. Directly influencing gods just isn't going to happen. Demigods and mortals of unbalancing power, on the other hand, can be found. (c.f. Runelords, nascent demon lords, etc.)
A worshipper of Achaekek is more like "hey, things have been pretty stable around here for the past few thousand years. Let's not have anyone showing up who can take control of a city with a single thought or - Achaekek forbid - cause another Earthfall."
As for why no Rovagug (remember this is why I dislike him as a choice. Mechanically you're perfectly in the clear to be a neutral cleric of Rovagug) - he's all about destruction. That's it. If you want to roleplay worshipping Rovagug, you've got to want to destroy. I mentioned I've seen a couple of clerics of Rovagug. The players always justify it as "my long term goal is to gather power from the Society and destroy it from the inside." But lets face it, they're never going to actually be able to put that plan into motion. Simply because as soon as they start anything like that the character is forcibly retired from play. (Not to mention if you sit down with a table of level 10-11 characters and somehow are able kill the Venture Captain before she can give you a mission, those players are going to be quite annoyed and you are going to be persona non grata with any character.) So they end up with a cleric of blah whose domains happen to be those of Rovagug. (This is separate from character personality. You can still have an interesting character, just not one who's defined by her deific affiliation.)
Of course these are just my thoughts. I would never tell a player that she CAN'T use a particular backstory or concept (as long as it doesn't break the rules). So, enjoy whatever character you end up with. I hope you get ample role-playing and achieve your goals!
Well that's sort of the reason I picked Rovagug: To be honest, most of the gods seem like blank slates to me. Oh, this one is a drunk, oh, this one is obsessed with revenge. They just don't have any character development, which is hard to do I admit, because you're writing a rulebook, not a novel. Rovagug just seems like the kind of depraved enough sort of mad obsessed with destruction kind of god where he would say "Yeah, yeah, do whatever, just keep working to destroy the gods." As opposed to the other gods.
I also don't like how people treat clerics like they must be avatars incarnate of their gods. I'm pretty sure old germanic people weren't all hammer-throwing bloodthirsty anarchy-inducing warriors that worshipped lightning. There's lots to explore where clerics and their gods are very different, yet work together for whatever reason. As I said before, I don't think gods, especially evil/neutral ones, would be THAT picky.
I also decided I'm probably gonna save my character for a home game, (whether or not that will actually happen) and just play a monk or something.
Just to be clear, it's perfectly fine to be Evil in PFS. Just write Neutral in the Alignment part like everyone else. :)Please do not encourage other players to cheat.
I don't see the cheating... I do see a joke though.
Edit: A pirate telling someone not to cheat... Huh.
Just to be clear, it's perfectly fine to be Evil in PFS. Just write Neutral in the Alignment part like everyone else. :)
To be clear though, my character isn't evil. I don't put much weight in the alignment system though, sort of wish we could do away with it.
Just to be clear, it's perfectly fine to be Evil in PFS. Just write Neutral in the Alignment part like everyone else. :)To be clear though, my character isn't evil. I don't put much weight in the alignment system though, sort of wish we could do away with it.
You and much of the rest of the population, however its likely not leaving PFS anytime soon.
Have you played in your area to see what the community is like? A question which is more or less how far you can push the limit is going to be entirely dependent on who you play with. If following an evil god is core to your character then you should express that in the way you play and that will cause you to dance the fine line of alignment infraction. Where that becomes difficult in PFS is that alignment is seen slightly differently with each GM you will play with, regardless of how you feel about the alignment system you are forced to abide with it.
On the subject of raising dead, while it is not an explicitly evil act there was a large thread a while ago discussing the problems it can cause at a table. The message I took away from that discussion was that there will be people whose characters will not like it and there will be GMs who see you as the one upsetting the table and potentially treading into "dont be a jerk" territory.
You will be challenged to conform your character identity to the mission at hand - this season we are in crusader territory after all. I encourage people to make and play the characters they want but, in my experience, yours will be an uphill fight. You have to gauge if the potential enjoyment you will gain from going with your concept is worth the friction that you might experience.
If your chief motivation to make this work is the lack of non PFS games then there is always the option to start your own. Start with PFS, ideally with a less questionable concept, and see if others are interested in rotating GM duties for a game more your style. The bonus chronicle for playing the new format modules in campaign mode should be incentive for people to try a less limited game. I am in one now that is taking a turn for the dark side. Someone commented that you force people to play good(ish) in PFS and when they get the opportunity they break out their evil side. Its likely you can find others who feel the same.
I have tried to make my own game, and so far, only 1 person in the entire area is up for a non-PFS game with someone who isn't explicitly in their circle of long-time friends.
And again, people don't seem to understand, I'm not trying to make a stomp on kittens and burn orphans kind of character. As I said multiple times before, he's good most of the time. He WOULD go on holy crusades and such to push demons back or what have you. His motivation is to stop creatures from other planes messing with his world.
I have tried to make my own game, and so far, only 1 person in the entire area is up for a non-PFS game with someone who isn't explicitly in their circle of long-time friends.
Even Local PFS groups tend to get pretty cliquey. Understandably, its a game you want to do with friends. Of course, I know people who don't do games outside of PFS at all. Something to consider is what kind of impression you want to make on the people around you(which is actually why there's a no evil rule). Playing as a wicked awesome outsider hunter and possibly future god slayer is pretty radical, but being an cleric of an evil god can rub some people wrong, which is likely why its not encouraged(also, as Chris said you play with a variety of people, a lot of them will be jerks, some of those jerks will be your GM).
I have tried to make my own game, and so far, only 1 person in the entire area is up for a non-PFS game with someone who isn't explicitly in their circle of long-time friends.Even Local PFS groups tend to get pretty cliquey. Understandably, its a game you want to do with friends. Of course, I know people who don't do games outside of PFS at all. Something to consider is what kind of impression you want to make on the people around you(which is actually why there's a no evil rule). Playing as a wicked awesome outsider hunter and possibly future god slayer is pretty radical, but being an cleric of an evil god can rub some people wrong, which is likely why its not encouraged(also, as Chris said you play with a variety of people, a lot of them will be jerks, some of those jerks will be your GM).
Our local PFS GM is pretty nice, thankfully. Most of the players seem fairly nice too, but many just aren't up for home games with people they don't know very well.
Which confuses me, honestly, because I've never been in a position where I can be that picky, it's normally a stranger meetup or nothing.