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There are lots of questions around about when certain cards can be played and when certain things happen.
To try and address these and summarise everything I've learnt so far, I've made a first attempt at a timing structure document and posted it on BGG:
http://boardgamegeek.com/filepage/95118/turn-sequence-breakdown
I've probably made some mistakes, but the doc is based on my current understanding of the rules. I hope that people can take a look at the doc and comment here or on BGG to provide feedback so I can improve it further.
Over to you to take it apart!
(P.S. I now understand a bit better the complexities faced by Mike, Vic and the Paizo team in writing a succint, comprehensive and entirely correct rules document!)
(P.S. I now understand a bit better the complexities faced by Mike, Vic and the Paizo team in writing a succint, comprehensive and entirely correct rules document!)
I appreciate that.
Also, this is great. I will see if there's anything that disagrees with my understanding of things.
Also once the reset phase has commenced you may not play any cards apart from at the end of turn cards
@Lylo - I've updated the doc to add your choice to discard cards if you want to and the summoned banes (if undefeated or evaded). Will upload the new doc tomorrow.
Also, the lack of an 'Any time window' after entering turn 6 is meant to signify that you cannot play cards any more. Cards can only be played in their windows!
My understanding of what's possible (and what I've tried to show in the doc) is that you have to do things in this order:
- 'any time window' (play cards suitable for this window)
- 'reset your hand' starts
- 'when resetting your hand' effects
- discard cards
- draw cards
- check if you're dead!
- 'reset your hand' ends
- 'end your turn' starts
- 'end of turn' window (play cards suitable for this window)
- 'end your turn' ends
- next character's turn...
Might need an intro or other note explaining that cards can only be played in their windows?
I've just uploaded an updated version (v0.2) of the Turn Sequence doc. It will be published when the BGG admins have had a chance to approve it.
Thanks again for the initial feedback!
Docs have been updated to v0.3. Incorporating a major fix related to when cards add their traits to checks!
Docs have been updated to v0.3. Incorporating a major fix related to when cards add their traits to checks!
Thanks for all your astute and thorough work h4ppy. Your timing document is something I'll be putting in my reference materials for the game.
Thanks for the kind feedback, @NariusV :)
The docs have been updated to v0.4 and v0.5 is in the works too.
Hopefully it will get to a more stable state soon!
(Then again, I'm sure Mike thought that about the rulebook...)
v0.5 has been published. @Tracker1 had some suggestions to improve readability which I'll put into v0.6 but other than that I think we're more or less there now.
Thanks for the catch, @Lylo. Updated and will be in v0.6
Just uploaded v0.6 to BGG, it should be moderated and live soon.
v0.6 is now live and I note that the doc has had more than 1000 downloads - thank you to everyone who has helped me compile, tweak and refine this document and I hope it continues to help more people in the future.
There are some changes afoot, as revealed by Vic in his rule update spoiler thread.
Notably, "combat damage" is now any damage you take when failing a check against a monster (even if you weren't attempting a combat check).
A new version of the Turn Sequence docs will be published soon to reflect these changes.
Just a quick note to say that I'm going to be afk for a few weeks... if you have any suggestions for these docs in the meantime just post here and I'll respond when I can!
Thanks for doing this h4ppy. It's going to be very useful indeed for my group going forward as things get more complicated. And it'll be even better for new players!
Thank you for this document. This, I hope, will help with introducing new players. This really is an important part to understand to help the whole game flow better.
One comment on the current version (0.7a):
There is a "When resetting your hand window" in the Turn sequence table, but there is no supplemental paragraph at the end of the table as for the other turn windows. I'm not sure one is needed, but since I went looking for it, I guess my subconscious brain was expecting it and that might be enough of a reason to include it.
You're welcome!
1.x would require a nod from Mike or Vic and I'd guess they're a bit busy with the S&S playtest at the moment to spend time reading this!
This is an extremely useful document. It has cleared up several questions for me.
It is out of sync with the current rulebook, though. The rulebook states that end-of-turn effects occur before discarding and resetting your hand. This document says end-of-turn effects occur before resetting your hand. Could you update the document to be in line with the current rules?
I think h4ppy mentioned else where that he has been really busy lately and doesn't expect to get to updating this for a while, maybe even a month or so.
Dang. Thanks for the update.