|
It's also important if, such as in my playthrough, the monster is targeting a creature which it may not be able to hit again. Our paladin had a 32 AC, and with a +17 on the tentacle letting go to hit again was not an assured thing. If it doesn't have to let go to keep hitting and grabbing, that changes the result significantly.
|
|
It's also important if, such as in my playthrough, the monster is targeting a creature which it may not be able to hit again. Our paladin had a 32 AC, and with a +17 on the tentacle letting go to hit again was not an assured thing. If it doesn't have to let go to keep hitting and grabbing, that changes the result significantly.
Depends a bit if it's using Weapon Finesse on the tentacle attack really...
The -4 DEX both take means the paladin would be 2 lower in AC, which would offset the -2 the grappled WISC would be taking on attack rolls for further attacks. If the WISC is using DEX, it's at a net negative on its follow up attacks against the grappled target.
True, he doesn't have to risk not reestablishing the grapple if he doesn't let loose, but attacks should resolve about the same outside of that from what I can tell.
|
|
True, he doesn't have to risk not reestablishing the grapple if he doesn't let loose, but attacks should resolve about the same outside of that from what I can tell.
The important part is the question of 'is the paladin still grappled when the monster finishes its attacks?' Because that could be the difference between getting a two-handed power attack versus having to break the grapple or switch to a different weapon.
|
|
Granted, it can. However, I wouldn't do it with most creatures with lower than 10 intellect. I don't view such a tactic — as powerful as it may be — as in line with the creature's priorities of implanting an egg on a target.
Evenb simple creatures like insects know how to effectively use their natural skills. A much smarter creature would know how to use them as well.
6 int is not mindless. I have seen PCs with 5 int.
|
Granted, it can. However, I wouldn't do it with most creatures with lower than 10 intellect. I don't view such a tactic — as powerful as it may be — as in line with the creature's priorities of implanting an egg on a target.Evenb simple creatures like insects know how to effectively use their natural skills. A much smarter creature would know how to use them as well.
6 int is not mindless. I have seen PCs with 5 int.
I just don't think it's the wolf's goal to kill everyone. The grapple/pin/implant routine is its method of reproduction, and so that's what I have it do. Grab/release/grab/release/grab/release doesn't make sense to me based on its priorities, even if the potential for higher damage exists.
|
|
I know when I ran this, yes, I prioritized the WiSC getting the implant attack done, which it did on the second round, successful save against chestbursters, moving on. After that, I prepped a little bit for this scenario by reading about WiSC in Misfit Monsters revisited. They're ambush hunters and to some extent, thrill seekers. They love taking down bigger and more dangerous prey, so after getting its implant off, I figure it does anything it can to kill everything around it, especially since it's mad from being poked by Babaus for the last few minutes.
|
|
I ran this scenario last night and I gotta say this scenario has some teeth on it. My party was backstepping quick every encounter trying to stay up long enough to widdle down the enemy. I will admit one of the roughest issues was our party levels with the new season 5 rules. We had:
7 Fighter
7 Cleric
10 Inquisitor
10 Zen Archer
9 Rogue5/Cleric3/Wizard 1(used scrolls & wands to have answers)
So this averaged to 8.6 , which rounded to 9. With the rules being that if you have 5 to 7 players and are in the middle of the tiers, you play up with the scale down for 4.
I had 2 relatively new players with their first level 7s, 2 veteran players with multiple high levels and 1 Venture lieutenant.
First Encounter:
Elven Archers and Briarborn beat everyone but 1 guy on initiative. Archers didn't miss once and I rolled 55 dmg on trample. so most of the party took around 61-64 damage before they even got to go. So the level 7s were on the ground a few points from death. Zen Archer apparently didnt take much con, because he was staggered. Inquisitor and hybrid were left to kill the Briarborn. At this point, I had the Elves help the party out by doing the last 10-18 points of damage to the centipede instead of continuing to fire at the party. My opinion, this needs to be scaled down better for a party of 4. (less dmg from trample & lower DC for shutting off the Elves)
Second Encounter:
The rogue scouted ahead and we played stealth games until both parties knew each other was there, but not exactly where. The party moved up and the WISC revealed itself. The Cleric and Zen Archer were pulled in close and grab-released 6 attacks off. Babau's ganged up on the Inquisitor & hybrid. The poor fighter was slow getting across the map, so he got no attacks in. They finally finished off the monsters and no one had dropped, but only because I spread the love around instead of focus firing 1 PC.
Third encounter:
Vinst played around kind of going from so great to see new people in the glade to telling bad jokes that no one got. The Hybrid had a good time as a follower of Calistria talking about permiscous wood nymphs and Bear loving. They made a good diplomacy check and Vinst gave them directions and sent them on their way.
-they never got lost the entire time and because of time we skipped the optional
Fourth encounter:
Fihlrahz(hezrou) critted the initiative and went first. Immediately hit the party with a blasphemy before they could spread out. Poor fighter failed his save and was paralyzed for 4 min. 2 others were dazed. The inquisitor buffed and moved up and the Zen Archer backed away to the farthest corner on the map and missed his 1 shot. Then i pretty much chaos hammered them 2 rounds until they finally unbunched themselves. the inquisitor moved up within 10ft and the next round I took a full attack for around 50-60 dmg and dropped him into the negatives with the harpoon. The 2 healers got him back up and I hammered away more. Finally the Zen Archer stopped missing and the inquisitor moved up for a final blow to kill.
-the 2 biggest issues with this encounter. 1. Blasphemy vs people being forced to play up 2. difficult terrain made this encounter 20x worse and I am not sure, but isn't that supposed to increase the CR of the encounter?
The players still had a good time, but thats only because I managed to keep some of the things overpowered about the encounter in check. wiping folks within 15 minutes of starting the game with 0 ways of preventing it, thats not fun for anyone.
-The entire game I felt really bad for the fighter the most. he basically did nothing the entire 4.5 hrs because of the circumstances. 3 combats and he was incapacitated from the get-go on 2 of them before having a turn.
I would run this again because it is fun, but I would probably be weary of mixing high levels with low levels and ending up in this situation again where we play up with 7-8 level PCs and scale down to 4.
|
|
When I ran this, I had the same issue. Two level 7 pregens at the high tier table of everyone else being 10-11. I actually stopped the scenario and asked my VC if he thought it was cool to blasphemy right out the door and and take two people out of the major fight. We decided it was better if he saved it as a backup tool, so I didn't use it until he got to about half health or so.
Last fight was epic. The party I was running for was all tank or control characters, so it was a lot of attacks bouncing off on both sides until I had the boss get fed up and just try and drag someone under water to drown them. That plan... could have gone better.
|
|
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
For the WISC, I (with the help of Bruno Breakbone, resident grappling expert) worked out the attacks to looks something like this:
(assume defender is at 15ft, all attacks, grapples, and pulls hit)
Tentacle 1: attack -> hit (damage) -> grab (both grappled) -> constrict (damage) -> target moved to adjacent square
(drop grapple as free action)
Tentacles 2 - 8: attack -> hit (damage) -> grab (both grappled) -> constrict (damage)
(drop grapple as free action)
Bite: attack -> hit (damage)
ROUND 1
Tentacle 1: attack -> hit (damage) -> grab (both grappled) -> constrict (damage) -> target moved to adjacent square
(drop grapple as free action)
Tentacles 2 - 7: attack -> hit (damage) -> grab (both grappled) -> constrict (damage)
(drop grapple as free action)
Tentacle 8: attack -> hit (damage) -> grab (both grappled) -> constrict (damage)
KEEP GRAPPLED
Bite: attack (@ -2) -> hit (damage)
ROUND 2
Standard Action Grapple Check to Pin (+damage from constrict)
ROUND 3
Standard Action Grapple Check to implant (+damage from constrict)
ROUND 1
Tentacle 1: attack -> hit (damage) -> grab (both grappled) -> constrict (damage) -> target moved to adjacent square
KEEP GRAPPLED
Tentacles 2 - 8: attack (@-2)-> hit (damage)
KEEP GRAPPLED
Bite: attack (@ -2) -> hit (damage)
ROUND 2
Standard Action Grapple Check to Pin (+damage from constrict)
ROUND 3
Standard Action Grapple Check to implant (+damage from constrict)
Unless you're trying to ratchet the challenge up, I submit that Option 3 is the most likely course of action. The thing wants to lay its egg. As soon as a grapple lands, it's not going to let go and risk missing on a subsequent check.
|
I don't ever play a level 7 or 8 up even when it's my actual character. I find they don't bring enough to the meatgrinder that is 10-11. If the group had two pregens, the group needed to have engineered to play down or abort the table. You can't have two pregens in 10-11 and not have serious problems. If the tactics say lead off with blasphemy, that's what you do. Players need to learn there are consequences for pushing the envelope like that.
|
For the WISC, I (with the help of Bruno Breakbone, resident grappling expert) worked out the attacks to looks something like this:
I haven't GMed it yet - but I am going to this month.
I would think how hard it is for it to hit and grapple its target might tell it what to do.
So it starts out with option 2 until it misses and attack or grapple and then perhaps the next grapple it succeeds at, it sticks. So if the target is hard to hit or grapple it might switch to keeping the grapple early, but it it seems to not have a problem, -well it is easier to implant in an unconcious body.
|
|
My group with two pregens did fine, honestly. I won't honestly say they contributed to the fights really, but they got to play had had fun. It was a group of friends, and the rest of the party agreed it was fine, so I was fine with it. I may not be remembering the scenario right, but I don't think the tactics say anything about blasphemy usage, and a lot more about how he likes to mix it up in melee.
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
redward: the WISC has Greater grapple, so it can grapple as a move and then grapple as a standard, so round 2 can pin as a move action and then grapple +implant as a standard.
Alternatively, up to once per day, a wolf-in-sheep's-clothing can implant an egg into a helpless or pinned creature as part of a grapple action
|
Seems groups who have played this recently had more positive experiences than the groups who initially played it. Can I ask that people who played it add a review to the Elven Entanglement product page? It hasn't had a review since Oct 27th and it sounds like it's been played plenty since then.
|
|
redward: the WISC has Greater grapple, so it can grapple as a move and then grapple as a standard, so round 2 can pin as a move action and then grapple +implant as a standard.
Alternatively, up to once per day, a wolf-in-sheep's-clothing can implant an egg into a helpless or pinned creature as part of a grapple action
Indeed it can. I missed that.
|
|
Alright, I wasn't even talking about the wolf in sheep's clothing, I was speaking of the Fungus Queen and her drain ability. I wanted to know if the energy drain went off on all grapples or had to be an 'instead of damage' maintain.
To answer you though...
The wolf in sheeps clothing is clearly intended to grab as many people as possible, and then maintain the grapple on up to 2 people a round with greater grapple, constricting and trying to implant eggs.
Alternatively, up to once per day, a wolf-in-sheep's-clothing can implant an egg into a helpless or pinned creature as part of a grapple action.
So I can't implant in every party member.
Abusing a rules exploit like suggested above violates the "don't be a jerk" rule in my mind very clearly. Remember, it applys to GM's as well.
My 2 cents.
So at the high tier, you're saying that I should be happy I'm grappling two entire people, doing about 2d6+10 points of damage a round? I'm more likely to smack everything in range and yank my meals closer to me.
|
|
Which still does not answer my original question about the Fungus Queen and her possible grappling.
She could send the tentacle through the sporepod, and the following round use a move action to go through the pod as she maintains the grapple with the tentacle. If the maintain was successful, then she'd be able to start the kiss to start the energy drain cycle. At least that's how I'd run it.
|
|
Which still does not answer my original question about the Fungus Queen and her possible grappling.She could send the tentacle through the sporepod, and the following round use a move action to go through the pod as she maintains the grapple with the tentacle. If the maintain was successful, then she'd be able to start the kiss to start the energy drain cycle. At least that's how I'd run it.
The energy drain is part of a physical kiss from the creature itself, so it can't send tentacles out in random directions through pods and repeatedly drain them.
I guess it doesn't require her to wait until the maintain round, but she's not supposed to get close to melee right of the bat, so shouldn't be next to someone for a kiss to start off.
Now, if she gets surrounded, and she goes around the horn hit/grapple/kiss to each target that's in range, that could be interesting...or just hit/grapple/kiss/release/rinse/repeat a single target would be extremely harsh.
|
|
So I played this last night, and it was INSANE. Since I haven't run it, I am not going to give a full review. Will do so when I get around to it, which might be soon. All I am going to say is that it was AWESOME. And when I run it, I am going to put a sign on it saying: "Power Gamers Preferred". So that way I can just make them quake in their boots.
Thank you to Ryan for running the game online for me, and a few of my favorite gaming buddies. Best cash I've spent on a Kickstarter!
|
|
So reading the rules for Trample, I have a question.
1. Trample can provoke if they forgo their reflex save.
2. Stand Still declares that if you make an AoO for an enemy trying to move past you, you may make an AoO as normal, forgo damage and stop them.
3. Does this effectively stop the centipede from Trampling if the AoO was successful?
|
|
So reading the rules for Trample, I have a question.
1. Trample can provoke if they forgo their reflex save.
2. Stand Still declares that if you make an AoO for an enemy trying to move past you, you may make an AoO as normal, forgo damage and stop them.
3. Does this effectively stop the centipede from Trampling if the AoO was successful?
hmmmmmm...I would say yes. It might be the best use anyone's ever gotten out of that feat. I would however allow the centipede to attack instead. ( probably the sucker that just stopped him in his tracks)
|
|
Would it get the rest of its turn though? It states that if it would have any actions (such as a standard to attack) left it may take them, but Trample is a full round action. Or would it not complete its full round due to intteruption and simply have moved?
It's a special full round action, and I'd run it just like breaking a charge. It's not like a full round attack where you can choose to stop after your first swing and do something else IMO.
