Alchemist Archetypes - need a clarification

[Tommaso Gollini]

Hi there
just tried to understand the discoveries part of all the Alch. Archetypes and really cant figure how they work

The discoveries listed in the archetypes descriptions are

1) the only ones the archetype can choose from
or
2) an addenda to the base class discoveries ?

thanks (if someone can answer with an articulate answer, to give me more chances to understand i REALLY will appreciate it

thanks again
t.

[Kyraeus]

Please, anyone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong here, seminoob myself, but I have an alchie.

My understanding is they're an addenda. Most of the archetypes are just a shifted type off the main alchemist path. Like saying 'This PARTICULAR alchemist focused on his mutagenic magic rather than his bomb sciences', therefore losing some of his standard alchemist abilities to become something specialized.

In keeping, he's STILL an alchemist. That's still the base class. He's just a special type of one. So in addition to the stuff normal alchemists can choose from for discoveries/etc. , because of his specialization he gets some extra options to play with for having lost, say, poison use/etc. (a common one).

[Kyraeus]

As an example, Beastmorph.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/alchemist/archetypes/paizo---a lchemist-archetypes/beastmorph

Beastmorph doesn't mean you can't still learn to use bombs. It still allows you to take discoveries from the alchemist list if you WANTED to boost your bomb tossing capabilites.

The description simply lists that Beastmorph alchemists are specialized to kind of get in close and mutagen up, enlarge/etc, shift to a beast form and get on with the 'Hulk SMASH!'

Thus it gives you suggestions of discoveries that help to specialize further. Alchemist is a VERY diverse base class, these are just options to give you the character type you want from the class.

[N. Jolly]

Tommaso Gollini wrote:

Hi there

just tried to understand the discoveries part of all the Alch. Archetypes and really cant figure how they work

The discoveries listed in the archetypes descriptions are

1) the only ones the archetype can choose from
or
2) an addenda to the base class discoveries ?

thanks (if someone can answer with an articulate answer, to give me more chances to understand i REALLY will appreciate it

thanks again
t.

Yeah, the ones below are just suggestions. You can take whatever ones you qualify for, it's just a matter of which ones you SHOULD. The only discoveries that are constrained to the archetype are listed in what's changed, the bottom ones are just suggestions.

[Tommaso Gollini]

thanks. so they are all optionals.
in effect those listed discoveries are varied in number and sometimes there are discoveries that need required discoveries not listed
so was leaning on that interpretation myself.

so the archetype has some mandatory changes (abilities taken out from the main class and replaced with those listed) PLUS a list of "suggested" discoveries

[Nikolaus Athas]

Tommaso Gollini wrote:

thanks. so they are all optionals.

in effect those listed discoveries are varied in number and sometimes there are discoveries that need required discoveries not listed
so was leaning on that interpretation myself.

so the archetype has some mandatory changes (abilities taken out from the main class and replaced with those listed) PLUS a list of "suggested" discoveries

Correct. Those suggested discoveries are the ones that synergise best with the alternate archetype.

[Kyraeus]

Yup. As stated, it's just a method to shift the 'focus' of the class to something more to each individual's liking. You don't like being a poisoner or the GM doesn't want to mess with those rules? Pick something that drops poison in exchange for something else. You'd rather focus on Bombs? There's a 'type for that.

[Tommaso Gollini]

also on this topic

if i loose the "throw anything" character ability due to a swap with another archetype ability, what i can do with bombs ?

1) are they thrown with a -4 (because of the lack of thrown anything ?)
2) do i loose the INT damage bonus /splash bonus ?

or what else ?

[Belafon]

1) No. (Bombs are still weapons, not improvised weapons. You are still proficient with bombs.)

2) You do not lose the INT bonus to bomb damage.

- You no longer get the INT bonus to all splash weapons. The bomb bonus damage is part of the bomb class feature (which you don't give up unless you are a vivisectionist). The bonus to all splash weapons is part of the Throw Anything class feature.

[Tommaso Gollini]

thanks belafon
if this is the rightful interpretation (and i dont have any motive to NOT think it), the throw anything ability is pretty ... underpowered
any archetype that gives it up for something more powerful is actually a huge benefit.