Improvised Weapons, or "You're Doing it Wrong!"

[grandpoobah]

I am working on a Monk that uses Improvised Weapons, with the intent to be at least effective as a normal unarmed monk. This will probably get moved to another forum, but I’m looking for PFS DM input (since I will be dealing with PFS DM’s). I am looking for guidance from the boards to see how this is likely to work in PFS play:

I’m going with the concept of “You’re Doing it Wrong!!”

The monk would use a Monk weapon as an Improvised Weapon in an attempt to benefit from effects that normally only Monk Weapon users can get.

As a Monk of the Empty Hand + Monk (Weapon Adept), I will use a Monk Weapon (for this example, we will use a Temple Sword).

Weapon Adept gives me Weapon Focus and Weapon Specialization in a single Monk Weapon (in this case Temple Sword).

proficiency:

It is not clear if I must have proficiency in Temple Sword in order to get the benefits of Weapon Focus. Assume I have proficiency in Temple Sword from a trait or some other means for the purposes of this discussion.

For the sake of this discussion, let’s say I have a +1, Flaming, Holy, Adamantine Temple Sword, that a Wizard casts Greater Magic Weapon on to make it an effective +3 enhancement to hit and damage.

As a Monk of the Empty Hand + Weapon Adept, I will have Weapon Focus and Weapon Specialization: Temple Sword and the Trait Surprise Weapon (Trait: +2 to hit with Improvised Weapons). I will also have the feat Improvised Weapon Mastery. What happens in the following scenarios:

Monk of the Empty:

A monk of the empty hand treats normal weapons as improvised weapons with the following equivalencies (substituting all of their statistics for the listed weapon): a light weapon functions as a light hammer, a one-handed weapon functions as a club, and a two-handed weapon functions as a quarterstaff

Improvised Weapon Mastery:

Increase the amount of damage dealt by the improvised weapon by one step (for example, 1d4 becomes 1d6) to a maximum of 1d8 (2d6 if the improvised weapon is two-handed). The improvised weapon has a critical threat range of 19–20, with a critical multiplier of ×2

Scenario #1;

As a standard action (or opportunity attack) Can I choose to wield the Temple Sword as a Temple Sword Normally?
In this case I assume I would get the benefits of Weapon Focus and Specialization, but not the benefits of Improvised Weapon Mastery or Surprise Weapon. I would get the full benefits of the +3 holy, flaming, adamantine temple sword.

Scenario #2: I use flurry of blows (or otherwise choose to treat the sword as an improvised weapon).

In this case, I must treat the temple sword as an improvised weapon, using the base stats for a club (bludgeoning, 1d6, crit for x2 on a 20). However, those stats are augmented by Improvised Weapon Mastery, making it a “better” club that does 1d8 damage and crits for x2 on 19-20.

The argument (for “yes” to the below questions) would be, even though I am treating it as an improvised weapon (using club statistics), it is still a temple sword, still made of adamantine, and still magical.

1. Do I get a +2 to hit from Surprise Weapon?
2. Do I get the +1 to hit and +2 to damage from Weapon Focus and Weapon Specialization?
3. Do I get a +1 to hit from the masterwork quality of the weapon?
4. Do I get to treat the weapon as adamantine?
5. Do I get the +1 magical enhancement from the weapon to hit and damage?
6. Do I get the +3 magical enhancement from Greater Magic Weapon to hit and damage?
7. Do I get the benefits of the Flaming property?
8. Do I get the benefits of the Holy property?

It is important to keep this in perspective. If I were a normal (weapon adept) monk, I would get the full benefits of the temple sword (even while flurrying). I am instead spending archetype features, feats (Improvised Weapon Mastery, Catch-Off-Guard) and a Trait (Surprise Weapon) to basically get an additional +2 to hit.

And of course to be hilariously awesome in the process.

Thanks for your input.

[Sniggevert]

Personally, first read through I'd say:

Yes to 1, 4 and maybe 6 if you can cast it on an Improvised Weapon.

No to 2,3,5,7,& 8 with 6 possibly from the caveat from above.

As to how I'd adjudicate it without in depth review/input.

[Mystic Lemur]

Not really familiar with these monk archetypes, but this is my response after a quick skim through.

For scenario 1, I believe the answer is yes (so long as you gain proficiency through a feat or trait, as you mentioned in your post). If you don't have proficiency, you would still benefit from Focus and Specialization but also take a -4 penalty for not being proficient.

For scenario 2:
1) Yes.
2) No.
3) Probably yes.
4) Yes.
5) Yes.
6) Yes.
7) Yes.
8) Yes.

[Nefreet]

The Temple Sword is a weapon, not an improvised weapon.

Improvised weapons are things like chairs, frying pans, and miner's picks.

EDIT: ah, never mind, missed the Empty Hand spoiler.

[James Risner]

grandpoobah wrote:

Weapon Focus and Weapon Specialization: Temple Sword and the Trait Surprise Weapon (Trait: +2 to hit with Improvised Weapons

Pick one:

Use it as a Temple Sword and get Weapon Focus/Spec
Use it as an improvised weapon and get Surprise Weapon bonus

You can't use both effects even with the Empty Hand Monk.