I had a very crazy idea thinking of making a Str Two-Weapon Fighting build when I remembered that the Ranger can bypass prereqs on feats.
So I was thinking of this feat progression:
Making a Two-Weapon Fighting Ranger
Human- +2 to Str
Level 1: Two-Weapon Fighting and Point-Blank Shot
Level 2: Combat Style Two-Weapon Fighting: Quick Draw
Level 3: Double Slice
Level 5: Two-Weapon Shield
Level 6: Combat Style Improved Two-Weapon Fighting
Level 7: Precise Shot
Level 9: Rapid Shot
Level 10: Combat Style Greater Two-Weapon Fighting
Level 11: Hammer the Gap
Level 13: Clustered Shots
Level 14: Combat Style Two-Weapon Rend
Level 15:
Level 17: Many Shot
Level 18: Combat Style Improved Shield Bash
Level 19:
With these stats: (25 point buy at level 1) Str 18, Dex 15, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 14, Cha 8
Increasing Dex at levels 4, 8, and 16 and Increasing Str at 12 and 20
Now before anyone asks I know that the normal Switch Hitter Ranger is the Archery Combat Style with a Great Sword and picking up melee feats when not getting Combat Style feats but I wanted to make something a little different.
If anyone is wondering why Improved Shield Bash is taken at level 18 it is because that is the last combat style feat left.
No TWF with two swords it is just that at level 18 the only Combat Style feat left is that Improved Shield Bash and I have to take a Combat Style feat.
As for what Combat Style yes TWF.
I understand that I can't switch hit as well as the 2 hander but I wanted to make a different switch hit than what everyone else has.
As for the Archery feats same reason as the typical switch hitter only I needed to take Precise Shot for Many Shot. Now that I'm thinking about it though I'm only using the bow until a certain point (charging distance) but then what other feats am I going to get Power Attack?
Okay then forget Many Shot, Precise Shot and put in all Ability Score Increases into Str until level 20 at which point take Dex just to make it +3?
A few things spring to mind here - don't take double slice early on, in fact, take it as your last combat style feat - it'll be contributing significantly by then. At level 3? It's not really a huge concern. It can wait.
Secondly - Power Attack, Improved Critical and Weapon Focus - all are fairly useful staples for a melee build. Let alone a TWF build that can use the throughput. You have two feat slots free, as to freeing a 3rd, I'd personally say they each outclass hammer the gap fairly heavily. Mostly by virtue of it being fairly rare to get much more than a point or three of damage out of it.
Also, how willing are you to really dump charisma to 7? Let alone how attached are you to the Con and Wis at 14? Letting one of these slide to 13 and improving them via magic items (Wis in particular) would free up, along with the charisma dump, a significant amount of points to focus further on Str and Dex.
EDIT: Ninja'ed by more comprehensive changes.
Fine build (the order is debatable and Power Attack is missing) but where is the crazy part?
Didn't you know? If it's not a Ranger - Str based TWF builds are crazy.
Okay so at level 1 feats: Quick Draw, Power Attack
Level 2: TWF
Level 3: Weapon Focus (whatever weapon I end up using for main hand)
Level 5: Weapon Focus (whatever weapon I end up using for off hand)
Level 6: ITWF
Level 7: Hammer the Gap?
Level 9: Crit Focus
Level 10: GTWF
Level 11: Crit feat
Level 13: Improved Crit
Level 14: Two-Weapon Rend
Level 15:
Level 17:
Level 18: Double Slice
Level 19:
Ability Scores (at level 1)
Str: 20, Dex 15, Con 12, Int 10, Wis 13, Cha 7
Seems fine. Though I'd note that Improved critical applies only to a single weapon so the options are:
a) Take it twice.
b) Just take a higher penalty on your to hit.
c) Use two light weapons, taking weapon finesse and Piranha Strike. Though here the former feat would serve only as a feat tax.
d) Rejig a bit; taking an exotic weapon proficiency (with a double weapon like the Two-Bladed Sword or Orc Double-Axe) instead of one of those weapon focus feats.
Other than that, I'd actually say you could probably still fit some archery feats in there. But I'm just really hopeful the switch hitter thing could work, so my opinion possibly needs a pinch of salt.
Okay so Level 1: Exotic Weapon Prof. Two-Bladed Sword, Point-Blank Shot
Level 2: TWF
Level 3: Power Attack
Level 5: Quick Draw
Level 6: ITWF
Level 7: Rapid Shot
Level 9: Weapon Focus (Two-Bladed Sword)
Level 10: GTWF
Level 11: Crit Focus
Level 13: Improved Crit (Two-Bladed Sword)
Level 14: Two-Weapon Rend
Level 15: Crit Feat
Level 17:
Level 18: Double Slice
Level 19:
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Just a few suggestions
Human
Ranger
Str 18
Dex 16 (This is all you need)
Con 14
Int 10
Wis 12
Cha 8
Just a fyi any thing past improved two weapon fighting has diminished return. The chances of your third attacks hitting are so low it's just not worth the feet. Until much later when there is a chance of it hitting AC's your looking at. You will want double Slice early to increases your damage with out affecting your to hit bonus. This is a much better over all damage then power attack for a low level two weapon fighter.
Feet's
Human: Two Weapon Fighting
1: Toughness
Ranger Combat Style 2: Double Slice
3: Power Attack
5: Quick Draw
Ranger Combat Style 6: Improved Two Weapon Fighting
7: Improved Initiative
9: Improved Critical : Kukri
Ranger Combat Style 10: Two Weapon Rend
11: Critical Focus
13: Bleeding Critical
Ranger Combat Style 14: Greater Two Weapon Fighting
How about saving the 3 points on Dex and putting them into Wis? The stat buy would look like Str 16 (+2 Racial = 18), Dex 15, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 14, Cha 8
15 Dex is the min for TWF if needed it can be upped at an ability score up level and put the rest into Str.
There's a guide to this build here.
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More then half the guides are wrong or give out bad information. The more I read them the more I under stand there written by people that don't have a lot of play time at high levels. That guide is no exception. They are written by people or groups of people with a lot of theory craft. Half of it works the other half dose not.
For example
They rank Double Slice as a one star. For a Ranger str base two weapon fighter. Saying it dose not increases damage that much. Don't take it until level 18.
Power Attack VS. Double Slice level 1
Str 18 duel Kukri
Power Attack
To Hit +2/2 Damage 1D4+6/1D4+3
Double Slice
To Hit +3/3 Damage 1D4+4/1D4+4
If I'm looking at this right the difference is Double slice has +1 to hit. With only losing 1 point of damage. And every one knows the to hit bonus is more important at this level then the one point of damage. This will change as you level up where power attack becomes more important but you need the to hit bonus to get high enough. To cover the decrees in to hit from power attacking. Two weapon fighting follows a special set of rules out side normal two handed weapons. The biggest mistakes made in building them are thinking they work the same. It is also where people find the rogue class lacking due to some of the same problems. They don't build for the class they build as ever other character. However the rogue needs a understanding of how things work different for them.
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Clagnar is Correct. Get double slice early. Then get power attack, you want to have both by 7th level if not 5th.
With a Ranger of this type at high levels there is no need to ever have a dex over 15 unless you want more AC. Your stat bumps should go to strength as a strength based Ranger. Strength will improve your to hit and damage, and allowing you to power attack more often and improve the value of double slice.
The builds that rank double slice low are for 14 strength or less. AS soon as you are at 18+ strength Double slice is a high priority. When you wear a belt of strength the value only greatly increases.
Don't worry too much about ranged feats. If you have to use as a back up you are likely talking about flying creatures so you wont need point blank (not close enough), wont need precise (not in melee) etc... just get a composite longbow with +4 strength and you'll be doing enough damage and enough to hit to be fine. It is a backup weapon. Double Slice and Power attack are more important to your core build.
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Are you stuck on Human?
I ask because you can get some nice perks out of Half-Orc. Not only do you get Darkvision, you also get the Orc double axe or Dire flail as Martial weapons - double weapons are great because when you charge, have only a standard action, or are making an AoO you get 3:1 Power Attack and 1.5x STR. There is also the benefit of only needing 1 weapon focus, improved critical etc.
Or, if you want to go high-crit with Kukri's you can take the Toothy racial trait and have a natural weapon (bite) that does 1.5x STR and 3:1 power attack on your charges, AoO's or standard action attacks. This saves you needing Quickdraw, but quickdraw is still required if you want to "switch hit".
Those are some thoughts. I don't think it's necessarily better than Human, but it's worth consideration in the least.
More then half the guides are wrong or give out bad information. The more I read them the more I under stand there written by people that don't have a lot of play time at high levels. That guide is no exception. They are written by people or groups of people with a lot of theory craft. Half of it works the other half dose not.
For example
They rank Double Slice as a one star. For a Ranger str base two weapon fighter. Saying it dose not increases damage that much. Don't take it until level 18.Power Attack VS. Double Slice level 1
Str 18 duel Kukri
Power Attack
To Hit +2/2 Damage 1D4+6/1D4+3
Double Slice
To Hit +3/3 Damage 1D4+4/1D4+4If I'm looking at this right the difference is Double slice has +1 to hit. With only losing 1 point of damage. And every one knows the to hit bonus is more important at this level then the one point of damage. This will change as you level up where power attack becomes more important but you need the to hit bonus to get high enough. To cover the decrees in to hit from power attacking. Two weapon fighting follows a special set of rules out side normal two handed weapons. The biggest mistakes made in building them are thinking they work the same. It is also where people find the rogue class lacking due to some of the same problems. They don't build for the class they build as ever other character. However the rogue needs a understanding of how things work different for them.
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But power attack applies on every attack, and double slice only applies when full attacking. The guides are just one person's way of looking at things so they're valuable in that respect - you don't have to agree with them.
Calling them "wrong" or "bad" information is belittling to people that put in a lot of work on them. "Wrong" is spelling "does" as "dose," and "dual" as "duel."
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More then half the guides are wrong or give out bad information. The more I read them the more I under stand there written by people that don't have a lot of play time at high levels. That guide is no exception. They are written by people or groups of people with a lot of theory craft. Half of it works the other half dose not.
For example
They rank Double Slice as a one star. For a Ranger str base two weapon fighter. Saying it dose not increases damage that much. Don't take it until level 18.Power Attack VS. Double Slice level 1
Str 18 duel Kukri
Power Attack
To Hit +2/2 Damage 1D4+6/1D4+3
Double Slice
To Hit +3/3 Damage 1D4+4/1D4+4If I'm looking at this right the difference is Double slice has +1 to hit. With only losing 1 point of damage. And every one knows the to hit bonus is more important at this level then the one point of damage. This will change as you level up where power attack becomes more important but you need the to hit bonus to get high enough. To cover the decrees in to hit from power attacking. Two weapon fighting follows a special set of rules out side normal two handed weapons. The biggest mistakes made in building them are thinking they work the same. It is also where people find the rogue class lacking due to some of the same problems. They don't build for the class they build as ever other character. However the rogue needs a understanding of how things work different for them.
\But power attack applies on every attack, and double slice only applies when full attacking. The guides are just one person's way of looking at things so they're valuable in that respect - you don't have to agree with them.
Calling them "wrong" or "bad" information is belittling to people that put in a lot of work on them. "Wrong" is spelling "does" as "dose," and "dual" as "duel."
Telling some one there wrong is not belittling them. Just as you fixing my spelling is not belittling me. It just proves I'm human, and machines can't fix all problems. Just as with most of the people that wright the guides are human. People can be wrong and still have fun at the game. However when a new player reads the guide they will think the same as what they read. Unless showed there is another way.
Power Attack affects single attacks all the time. However at lower level you will more often then not miss a lot. So you will be full attacking more then you will single attacks. As you level up you will be full attacking more due to monsters HP. I have only seen a few times in all my years of gaming monsters get one shoot the first hit. And then most of the time it's due to a critical with a high bonus on damage. With 3.0+ Most of the times it happens with a X3 or better weapon. So Double slice is still more important for any build I make. You can build with power attack all you want. My experiences have led me to believe power attack is no the best feet for every one.
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For my PFS character when I get him to 12. He is not optimal but fun and effective. AS I could have made him Half Elf and started with a higher Str. Along with a few other tweaks. Over all though he has proven to be good.
Dwarf
Ranger 6/ Rogue 6
Str 17 + 3 Level bonus + 6 item = 26
Dwarven Waraxe +3 (2)
Feet's : Two Weapon Fighting, Improved Two Weapon Fighting, Double Slice, Weapon Focus Dwarven Waraxe, Improved Critical Dwarven Waraxe
BAB 10 + 8 Str Mod + 3 Enchantment + 1 Weapon Focus = 22 - 4 Two Weapon Fighting = 18
Dwarven Waraxe (2) 18/18/13/13 1D10+11 Crit 19-20/X3
+3D6 sneak attack damage when flanking.
Min/Max Full Ranger Level 11.
Human
Str 20 + 2 level bonus + 6 Item = 28
Kukri +3 (2)
Feet's : Two Weapon Fighting, Improved Two Weapon Fighting, Two Weapon Rend, Weapon Focus, Improved Critical Kukri. Power Attack
BAB 11 + 9 Str Mod + 3 Enchantment + 1 Weapon Focus = 24 - 2 Two Weapon Fighting - 3 Power Attack = 19
Kukri 19/19/14/14/9 1D4+18/1D4+15 Crit 15-20/X2
+Favored Enemy +4 +4 +2
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+18 is a mediocre main attack at 12th; just about everything you meet is going to be AC30 or higher. Opportunities to apply Power Attack to a full-attack are going to be few and far in between.
You know what's actually the best TWF weapon (assuming you're not a ninja or samurai)? Vanilla short swords! Almost everybody can use them; they're light weapons (applicable to Weapon Finesse); and your weapon-specific feats cover both hands. WF and ImpCrit once each pumps two blades.
BUT.... Getting back to the OP ranger example, I'd probably square away the archery feats first, as arrows yield the highest DPR and lowest rebound damage in the early levels. Time enough to do TWF when you have the equipment and feats to exploit it effectively -- and monsters with reach are routinely spoiling your archery fun.
17,14,12,12,12,07 array
Elf, neutral alignment
STR:14
DEX+19
CON-10
INT+14
WIS:12
CHA:07
Traits: Berserker of the Society, Warrior of Old
01 barb1 [urban] Extra Rage (14 r/day)
02 rang1
03 fight1 PBS, RS
04 rang2 DEX>20, PS
05 rang3 Deadly Aim
06 rang4
07 rang5 Manyshot
08 rang6 Improved Precise Shot
...at this point you are the scariest ass possible archer for the level, with DEX-raging attacks of, NOT counting favored enemy bonuses, point-blank or external buffing, +15(x2)/+15/+10 Many/Deadly/Rapid for 4x(d8+10+d6) with a +4/+2 DEX/STR belt, a MW bow, +1/d6 arrows, and a cracked pale green ioun or BoA.