RhaegarT's page

No TWF with two swords it is just that at level 18 the only Combat Style feat left is that Improved Shield Bash and I have to take a Combat Style feat.

As for what Combat Style yes TWF.

I understand that I can't switch hit as well as the 2 hander but I wanted to make a different switch hit than what everyone else has.

As for the Archery feats same reason as the typical switch hitter only I needed to take Precise Shot for Many Shot. Now that I'm thinking about it though I'm only using the bow until a certain point (charging distance) but then what other feats am I going to get Power Attack?

2 TWF

14 and 18 you can take two weapon defense, rend, quick draw, or double slice if you want.

I dont understand why you need shield bash. there are plenty of feats to take and none of those are that great that you "need" to spend regular slots on them earlier.

So wait, you are TWF with sword and shield then?

What combat style did you take? TWF i assume?

why so many archery feats. If you want to be a TWF you really need to focus on it, you cant switch hit as well as the 2 hander. 2 hander works with it because its really easy feat wise to be effective.

I was under the impression that RAW only allow spontaneous casters to prestige into DD. If entering with Magus, you'd still have to take a level of either bard or draconic sorcerer to make it happen, no?

theres a 3rd party archetype (cabalist) that makes magus spontaneous.

coincidentally it also gives magus a bloodline of their choice which stacks amazingly with DD if its allowed.

isnt that 3rd party though?

edit: to clarify, i dont mean to imply that being 3pp makes it bad, just that some folks might not have access to it.

also im unsure as to whether cabalist works off of cha or in, as it doesnt really clarify in the AT's page (one could argue that since it's taking the bard progression it also runs off of cha, but the other side could say that it only gets the spells known/gains the same as a bard, not changing it's casting stat).

I would read it as int because it doesnt say it changes it. Shouldn't matter other than for dragon claws/day.

Has anybody looked at the cabalist magus archetype as a potential base for a dragon disciple?

You can get into DD and have a pure class caster base that also has the sorcerer dragon bloodline starting at level 7, so you can stick with full bloodline progression the whole way through.

You get to cast in medium armor at magus 7 and even heavy if you take magus to 13. Personally I would do magus12/DD8 to only lose 2 caster levels and keep 15 BAB

You keep int as your primary casting stat

You also get spell combat and spellstrike. With certain touch spells that have multiple charges you can take a full attack with your sword as well as a claw and bite attack with your offhand and bite as well.

Only drawback as I see it is the magus relies a lot on metamagic for some of their damage output and you cant use the longer casting time from spontaneous casting with spell combat.

Quote:

I guess because walters guide is the only one out there maybe im putting too much weight on shocking grasp. It does seem the most viable if you truly want to rely on your spells to kill things and arent using some method of massively upping your attacks/round.

NOT True, Sir.

Check the guide to the guides and you will see there is a GUIDE TO THE HEXCRAFTER, by myself and Mathwei Ap Niall.

Best Archetype. We will make you believe.

definitely looks pretty awesome. Even just getting evil eye and flight alone would make it worth it.

What do you think of the Malice and stalwart arcana to go with it?

Just to confirm, I cant use a hex like evil eye with spellstrike or spell combat right? But I can just cast it whenever I want as a standard action?

The free bestow curse is nice as its a wizard spell I might have picked up anyway.

Does the hexcrafter get these as a wizard or a witch spell? it matters as on the witch list they are 1 level earlier...

RhaegarT wrote:

Interesting spell but if I started pulling a bunch of shapechange multi claw attack shenanigans all the time I'd get shut down pretty quick by the DM. I don't like doing cheesy stuff like that.

I do like the spells that last for a while through multiple attacks, seems to fit well with spellstrike.

You can't cast another spell while you are still holding charges though right?

Shapechange is a valid tactic but if it doesn't fit you personally then skip it.

Also yes it's true that you can't cast another spell without forfeiting all your remaining charges you CAN use any spell-like, supernatural or extraordinary ability without giving up the charges.
This is why the most popular archetype for Magi is the hexcrafter. Hexes lets you keep going without ever losing a single charge from your multi-touch spells.

I'll admit I havent looked at the hexcrafter too closely, mainly because I don't know much about the witch to begin with. I can see the advantage though if you are using spells like that.

I do see how a lot of the touch spells are worth using even if they cant be intensified like shocking grasp. frigid touch for example is a great debuff even though its stuck at 4d6 damage.

I guess because walters guide is the only one out there maybe im putting too much weight on shocking grasp. It does seem the most viable if you truly want to rely on your spells to kill things and arent using some method of massively upping your attacks/round.

Interesting spell but if I started pulling a bunch of shapechange multi claw attack shenanigans all the time I'd get shut down pretty quick by the DM. I don't like doing cheesy stuff like that.

I do like the spells that last for a while through multiple attacks, seems to fit well with spellstrike.

You can't cast another spell while you are still holding charges though right?

RhaegarT wrote:

Oh also

Haste doesnt add an extra attack to the magus with spell combat

Its right there on the magus page FAQ

"
Does spell combat count as making a full attack action for the purpose of haste and other effects?

No. Spell combat is its own kind of full-round action, and is not a full attack action.
"

SO that kinda makes haste a lot less appealing as a buff to cast for the magus doesnt it?

No, that has been removed as of last week and now you CAN get an additional attack with haste while using spellcombat. This was clarified by SKR and should be in the faq as of now.

Cabalist is kind of sucky for what it gives you. Being spontaneous has it's advantages but losing knowledge pool (you know EVERY magus spell for free) and Greater spell access (free still spell on 14 new spells) in exchange for losing flexibility just seems BAD to me.

Finally, preferred spell is only worth it if you plan to spam shocking grasp and that's kind of a 1 trick pony build.

thanks for the update on haste.

I'm not worried about knowledge pool. sure its nice but I mapped out a character and even with just the 2 spells per level I grabbed almost everything I really want

What do you mean 14 spells with "free still spell"? because you can cast the wizard spells in armor?
Cabalist at least gets the bloodline spells eventually though i agree its not as good.

isn't shocking grasp really the only spell to build around? I mean what else is a direct damage touch spell that qualifies for intensify, can be done as a level 1 spell and basically used endlessly between spell recall and pearls?

I agree the 1 type of damage kinda sucks but can always get elemental spell for it to cover that, which is fine if you have preferred spell and can spontaneously apply it...

Oh also

Haste doesnt add an extra attack to the magus with spell combat

Its right there on the magus page FAQ

"
Does spell combat count as making a full attack action for the purpose of haste and other effects?

No. Spell combat is its own kind of full-round action, and is not a full attack action.
"

SO that kinda makes haste a lot less appealing as a buff to cast for the magus doesnt it?

Well I'm going to pull out one of my old posts for new Magi to dispel some assumptions and clarify a bit on what the class actually IS.

Now before this goes any further let me give you a very simple statement to help you understand what a Magus really is. It sums up the class about as clearly as possible.

A Magus is a Caster who fights, not a Fighter who casts.

Everything about the class is based on the assumption that 90% of your effectiveness comes from your magical abilities. Spending resources on anything else actually makes your character weaker.
You can absolutely build your Magus as a bladebound or myrmidach and spend your feats/resources getting stronger attacks with it but in the end it will actually make you a weaker combatant then focusing on your spellcasting.

The point we are highlighting here is your MAGICAL abilities are what you use to win your fights. Your weapon and melee abilities are there strictly to to let you deliver your spells onto the target. Other then that they are pretty much useless.

Now to address some of your specific points:
Spell Recall is a crutch you don't need to and really shouldn't worry about. Yes it lets you spend arcane points to recover spells used, but so do Pearls of Power and they are a LOT cheaper. You have MUCH better things to spend your points on (haste, + to hit, resolving attacks against Touch ac, etc)

Myrmidarch Magus doesn't work. Please note the archetype doesn't have ranged spell combat only spellstrike. This means you can never use spellcombat with your main attack type (ranged) pretty much gutting the signature ability of the class.

If you want to be a fighter that buffs themself before wading into melee, then play an inquisitor. It does it MUCH better and is built around it.

Good clarification, you are right of course.

Just a few points:

spell recall: Yes pearls are much better especially level 1 (500gp each if you craft them). I guess spell recall is only good if you need to use it in combat as its swift?
-also once you get imp. spell recall you can get 3rd level spells with 1 point which is a LOT more useful

Myrmidarch: You're right of course. I dont understand why an archetype that mostly makes you a better tank/fighter has this ranged ability with such a huge drawback. I'm planning to have a low dex mod anyway, I really never would use it. Yes it sucks and its pretty much why I wont use myrmidarch. I'd consider the archetype if I could just remove this "feature"

I do still like the idea of the cabalist, I just cant see how to make it work without being able to metamagic shocking grasp...

At the very least I'll be getting preferred spell for shocking grasp because at least it keeps it as a standard action cast time (though having to get heighten is annoying)

Well, if I was in your place and set on the magus (I'm usually more interested in Eldritch Knight or Dragon Disciple if I want to mix melee and arcane magic), I'd go for the straight Magus or the Bladebound archtype.

Main reason I like the magus better, is that you get to wear armor without issues, and you get spell combat. Being able to cast a spell at the same time as full round attacking just seems amazing to me. All the other magus stuff is just bonus after that.

And really IMO the magus has all the necessary spells for a fighter/mage anyway, and even gets some of the blasts to boot (and can pick up any wizard spell they want with spell blending too!)

I do agree somewhat that maybe an elf, boosting dex and int would be a bit better and give me some more well rounded stats.

Basically looking at a few concepts:

1) Bladebound myrmidarch: basically abandon arcane pool entirely other than enchanting the weapon. Instead stack up weapon focus/specialization and arcane strike (not using swift actions anyway.) along with weapon training and armor training (better if I get a decent dex score)

Focus is on the attacks rather than the spells. He uses spell combat as much as he can, but mostly to fit his buffs in without losing full attack actions.

2) Dragon cabalist (at least magus 7 for the cabalist bloodline stuff) with DD levels. The stat boosts will all help and the combined natural armor would be awesome. Give up the ability to metamagic shocking grasp with spell combat, but get the +1 damage per dice effect for it at least (picking electric dragon).

3) Regular magus with decent int and using the half elf favored class for even more pool points. Use the points to spam spell recall and blast away with intensified shocking grasp. Maybe pick up a couple other arcanas like the accuracy too. Otherwise spell blendings.

Why the 11 dex and 9 cha?

You should even those stats out.

I'd love to but they are rolled and I got stuck with a bunch of odd numbers... at least I can dump stat wis and cha

I'd actually like to even out con and dex a bit so each has a small bonus too...

Starting a new campaign with my friends at level 8, looking to play a magus type character.

other party members are a sylvan sorcerer, a rogue, and a paladin who will mostly heal and tank. DPS is pretty important to me (sorc is more control and pally wont do a lot of damage) but otherwise I think I can play whatever.

my stats are rolled, 17, 15, 14, 11, 11, 9

was thinking

str 17 (to 19 with racial half elf) +1 level up
dex 11
con 14
int 15 +1 from level up
wis 11
cha 9

I'm pretty set that I don't want to be a dervish magus, I like the str build a lot better.

From there, there are a few options im considering.

I'd really like to use one of the archetypes as a few of them seem interesting to me. Unfortunately other than bladebound a lot of them give up the major class features (especially spell recall)

Myrmidarch for example I'd like to use but I cant justify losing spell recall for the ranges spellstrike that I dont even want to use... would really like weapon and armor training from it, and the earlier access to fighter feats.

I'm interested in cabalist, but I realized I wouldnt be able to metamagic with spell combat due to the longer cast times. I won't be able to afford spontaneous metafocus for shocking grasp either, due to my low cha.
I'm tempted to do the cabalist with dragon bloodline and do some dragon disciple dips. It seems to be DD would actually be worth it on a magus who can also use armor and already has bloodline bonuses that stack with DD. I'd need to figure out the metamagic thing though

I think most of all I'm having trouble judging whats important with this class. How big an impairment is it to lose spell recall, or to not be able to intensify shocking grasp?

I could go myrmidarch and bladebound and just not care about arcana and AP points so much, be more of a fighter who can buff himself while he full attacks. Then i'd pick up arcane strike since I'd never be using my swift actions other than to initially buff my weapon.

Or I could go cabalist and stack up some natural armor and be a spontaneous caster (but is spontaneous casting needed with spell recall?)

or I could just go straight magus and get a huge Arcane pool and just constantly recall intensified shocking grasps. Seems to be the recommended way to use a magus anyway. I'm just not super impressed with most of the arcana options for some reason.

any advice to help me narrow my focus a bit?

Anyone have any opinions on the priest variant of the cleric?

I might be interested in it, heavier on the casting and less combat.

Thanks for the info, that's helpful.

Found out one of the other guys is playing a heavy tank paladin, so maybe that free's me up a bit more.

Buckler lets you cast, light shield lets you hold an item (so a meta rod or wand maybe.)

I'm pretty set on being close melee. I'll be the toughest character in the party, and I can heal too. I know its not ideal, but if I'm gonna be full plate and shield im gonna enjoy it.

I know, maybe i shouldnt worry so much about hitting with the touch spells.

If I'm gonna use a real weapon, and a heavy shield I guess my only concern is swapping to cast. Is quick draw going to be a must have?

Those are before racials. I plan to play dwarf probably (or human maybe), so it will be a 20 wisdom.

I've read the "bad touch cleric" stuff. It's kinda misleading as most of it isn't actually touch stuff. Thing for me too is my dex is pretty low, so using reach spell to make things ranged touch isn't amazing either, not when I have a way higher to hit melee and I will be the most heavily armored guy in the party, with high hitpoints to boot.

I really like the prospects of using guided hand on my unarmed strikes (name makes more sense too... guided HAND), especially with the wisdom I got (and relatively crappy str and dex)

It's probably total overkill though. Touch attacks aren't hard to land on most things. Though it will be fun to land on enemies that think they have a great touch AC.

I read the spell description for magic weapon.. It says it can work on a monks unarmed attacks, but it doesn't specifically say it works for anybody with improved unarmed strike...

Really though I plan to mostly stand near the fighter, heal and buff him while I soak up some hits too. When the opportunity presents itself I'll throw down some nasty touch spells.

Really I'm building support/caster with heavy tank aspects primarily. I would build a more pure caster but cleric isn't great for that, and my group really needs a cleric. first choice would have probably been empyreal sorcerer.

Probably pick up the healing domain (I know its not the greatest but it will keep my party happy). Not sure about the other. I like Knowledge, as well as rune for the free scribe scroll feat.

Starting a new campaign with my group. We decided for fun to roll each stat separately and lock them in, and we have to build characters around that... Rolls were good at least as we did 5d6 drop 2

I got

str 13
dex 12
con 14
int 14
Wis 18
cha 13

So obviously I'm going to be a wisdom based, and thinking cleric.

I have a few ideas. Basically I need to focus more caster, but I can't really be a battle cleric with my strength (or at least not as well).

I really like touch spells so I was thinking I would focus on that.

So say I pick Irori as my god, and get unarmed strike for free.

Then I go for guided strike so I can use wisdom to my hit with unarmed... I assume this would count for touch as well? So would weapon focus, touch right?

Then I would basically be a heavy armor and shield cleric, with my hand as my weapon. I would never need to worry about swapping my weapon out to cast or touch things.

Only drawback I can see is I would need an amulet of mighty fists if I wanted an enhancement bonus. That or magic weapon spells (can magic weapon apply to unarmed or only magic fang?)

Anyone see any major problems with this?

Are there any other good ways of optimizing touch attacks I'm missing?