| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Adamant Entertainment, the very first Pathfinder support publisher, returns to the field with this optional addition to your Pathfinder campaign: Miracles & Wonders.
For over thirty years now, Divine Magic in RPGs has been treated as little more than a poor man's version of Arcane magic -- different in spell lists, but treated as essentially identical. Still based on a certain number of spells per day, with predefined effects, etc.
Likewise, playing a cleric, druid or paladin often ignored the things that make those classes more than just a different kind of magic-user, or a fighter who can heal wounds and turn undead.
All of that ends now.
Miracles & Wonders gives Pathfinder GMs and players a completely new system for handling divine magic. Divine miracle-workers call upon their deity directly, asking for a miracle at the moment it is needed, and the GM, roleplaying the Power in question, dictates the exact result based upon the character's accumulated reserve of divine Grace, their success at Invocation (and subsequent Humility), the Hubris they have incurred and scope of the miracle sought.
Using this system, miracles of biblical scope can be played out within the game setting, returning the quality of wonder, might and world-shaking importance that accompanies miracles throughout mythology.
Included in this 32-page PDF supplement are:
- Doctrines of Service, which help determine the character's accumulation of Grace and Hubris.
- Benedictions (ongoing or permanent abilities)
- The seven basic types of Miracles: Creation, Dominion, Health & Healing, Insight, Protection & Warding, Smiting, and Summoning & Banishing...all ranged in scope from subtle to mythic.
- The loss of powers: Rebukes and Execration
- Recovery of powers through Atonement.
- ...plus notes on Roleplaying deities, adventure hooks and more!
Miracles and Wonders gives the flavor and power of myth and legend to your Pathfinder campaign.
Coming soon to the Paizo Store, available now elsewhere.
I like the other things that I have seen that you have written in the past; I have many of them. I have seen attempts at using miracles in games, however, and they felt taped on with duct tape.
That said, it would be great for Divine to feel different than Arcane. As you mention, it often seems to be the "poor cousin". As it states that it is NOT Vancian (which is in itself a good thing), I have to wonder how exactly it is handled.
Are the powers usable at will or otherwise like "Super Powers"? Or does the character have some sort of spell point mechanic? The above text seems to say that the character has some sort of Faith Threshold (i.e. spell points). This is not a bad thing, I am just wondering before I plunk down the money to get it.
My hesitation really is as to how well it will be received by my gaming group, the better the idea (and that it works well in-play) the better.
I thought that I had seen something similar to this before. I thought that the name seemed familiar.
It turns out that several years ago (like around 2005) I had bought a pdf by the same name, "Miracles & Wonders", also by Adamant Entertainment. It is by Stephen J. Barringer. So this is an update to the Pathfinder rules, and probably revised in some way.
I will read the old version, but can you give me any ideas as to what might be new (beyond just saying it is for Pathfinder).
So this is an update to the Pathfinder rules, and probably revised in some way.
I will read the old version, but can you give me any ideas as to what might be new (beyond just saying it is for Pathfinder).
Yes, this is a new version of the old d20 supplement we did 8 years ago. The benchmarks (for example, what Benedictions reflect what divine class features) have been revised to match the Pathfinder core rules, rather than the old d20 SRD.
We're going to be releasing new editions of a few other older titles, revised for use with Pathfinder, in addition to releasing new Pathfinder products as well.
Thanks for the reply, and good, I am glad that you are revisiting old products and updating them to Pathfinder. New stuff is also good. I had purchased quite a bit of the Adamant library, and I am not opposed to doing so again.
Thanks for the reply, and good, I am glad that you are revisiting old products and updating them to Pathfinder. New stuff is also good. I had purchased quite a bit of the Adamant library, and I am not opposed to doing so again.
Thank you for saying so!
I'm very excited about the new stuff. (But I've learned my lesson -- I won't be announcing anything until it's almost ready to release!)
I got it today. It looks good, and as expected it is an improvement of the earlier version.
I do have some questions, observations, and/or other comments. Should I post them here? Or should I send them in a message? In short, I felt that it was missing at least one page. :D
I do have some questions, observations, and/or other comments. Should I post them here? Or should I send them in a message? In short, I felt that it was missing at least one page. :D
Whichever you prefer.
It appears that your profile does not allow Private Messaging, or perhaps I do not have sufficient clearance to do so. That is fine, and I can definitely understand why -- you would potentially get a ton of annoying messages!
I am not sure how specific I should get on the boards; I do not want to give away too much. So I am sorry in advance if I inadvertently give away your trade secrets.
The only solid guideline that I saw regarding the amount of Grace that a character should have is listed as an option on page 8, given as a guideline for balance between characters. I think that this should be the default, and in a more explicit location. Furthermore, that really only adequately addresses a Cleric or Druid. Paladins and Rangers cast at a lesser rate.
Benedictions are a good idea, and a convenient way to say "all of your character's divinely given abilities". My only complain with these is that they are based on the level of Grace. This makes it so that if a character casts too many spells, er invokes miracles. the character risks temporarily losing some of his or her class abilities. This penalizes the Druid, and to a lesser extent the Paladin (as they cast fewer spells anyway, which is mentioned in the text).
Don't get me wrong, this book has many good ideas, and is a welcome addition to any campaign. However, there are some things that need to be addressed more clearly for it to become a viable option for gameplay in the Pathfinder RPG. As it is right now I give it 3 stars because it feels incomplete. I do not feel that it can be useable as is. It needs to be expanded on. Also, it could greatly benefit from additional examples (please read on).
The clarifications that I have come up with to make it playable are as follows:
First it should be noted that Oracles do not use these rules, as they generally do not worship as a Cleric or other divine caster does. These rules are to be used for Clerics, Druids, Inquisitors, Paladins, and Rangers. Multiclass characters can simply add their Caster Level and Grace Pool, but a character can have only but one religion/deity.
Clerics and Druids
Clerics no longer have Domains, they should select an Archetype based on their deity/religion (some deities or religions might have more than one Archetype). These would grant them something at level one and on every even-numbered level. They should retain their Channel Energy ability as per the Core Rulebook, but many deities would have alternate Channel Energy types (described in Ultimate Magic).
At least one example Archetype for a Cleric would be great. This could be mini-Archetypes for Domain choices, or they could be special-made with a particular deity in mind. I can even see ability picks that can come from any of the Domains that a deity/religion provides, picked in a way similar to Rogue Talents.
Druids are essentially a version of the Cleric, except that their levels are already filled up for the most part with abilities. They can have different Archetypes based on deity that grants a possible Domain-like ability that increases as they level up. Additionally, levels 5, 7, 11, 17, and 19 are currently “dead levels”.
Grace Pool: +5 per level
Caster Level: +1 per level (as per Full BAB)
Inquisitors
Inquisitors will need to select something for their Domain. It is also probably that, like the Cleric, each Inquisitor might have an Archetype for his or her religion/deity.
Grace Pool: +4 per level, starting at level 2.
Caster Level: +1 at level 2 (as per medium BAB, which incidentally, the Inquisitor has)
Paladins and Rangers
Paladins and Rangers under these rules get access to miracles one level earlier (level 3 instead of level 4) but they are more tied to their deity/religion. They should have an archetype reflecting their chosen faith, along with its associated code of conduct. By using these rules the Paladin (or even Ranger) can be more easily adapted to other deities and/or alignments.
Grace Pool: +2 per level, starting at level 3.
Caster Level: +1 at level 3 (as per the slow Saving Throw rate).
This is a fancy name for “Class abilities that come from a Divine Source”. MW has Benedictions dependent upon the character’s level of Grace. While that may seem to be a good idea at first, it is better to base them on something else entirely.
The reason for this is because, as shown on page MW 10, a character needs to keep the Grace Pool at a certain threshold to retain the use of various class abilities (Benedictions). This seriously limits spellcasting to a Grace Pool of 5 points at virtually all levels, which is not very fun and detracts from the classes. Please instead use Faithfulness instead (below).
All Divine spellcasters have a Faithfulness score (also called Faith), which is calculated:
5 + (Wisdom Modifier) + (Charisma Modifier)
Grace Pool
A character’s Faithfulness can increase his or her Grace Pool. While a positive value, the amount of increase is half of the character’s Faithfulness (rounded up). Clerics, Druids, and Inquisitors can apply this at first level. Paladins and Rangers must wait until they have a Caster Level of at least one; unless they multiclass with Cleric, Druid, or Inquisitor, a Paladin or Ranger has to wait until level 3 to utilize a Grace Pool.
Hubris
A character’s rating of Hubris decreases his Faithfulness. While still positive there is no other effect (beyond having a Hubris of such a degree). For every two full points of a negative value for Faithfulness that the character has, he or she also loses on effective class level in regards to Benedictions.
For Faithfulness of -1 and above, there is no change. For Faithfulness -2 and -3, the character loses one class level worth of Benedictions, Caster Level, and Grace Pool. For Faithfulness -4 and -5, the character loses two class levels worth, and so on.
In the case of a multiclassed character with more than one divine class the player chooses which class to weaken, subject to GM approval. This level loss only affects the actual divinely given abilities. It has no effect on Hit Points, level-based saving throw progression, level-based Base Attack Bonus, etc.
Rather than go into a point-for-point addressing of your suggestion, I will instead say this:
It appears that you have misunderstood the concept of Grace. Your suggestions automatically bestow Grace on characters based on their experience level, which is not the intent of these rules.
As stated on page 8, Grace is the favour and blessing a character currently bears from their god, and is awarded every time a PC performs a Duty (the Duties of the PC's faith, as determined by the player and GM at character creation). Grace is ONLY accumulated by actions -- by performing the necessary Duties (between 1 and 5 points per Duty, depending on the importance of the action, as described on that page).
The "guideline" that you reference is actually not a guideline, but purely optional (in fact, it is labeled as an Option), for those GMs who want to keep the potential power of divine servants capped.
So, to reiterate: Grace is awarded by the performance of a divine servant's Duties, and the base assumption is that there is no cap limit, although one can be instituted by the GM.
If you are concerned, as per the example you cite, that a character is being penalized, the solution is simply to have the character enact their Duties, and award them Grace accordingly.
I hope that clears things up.
Oh, I did not mean to imply that I did not understand that part. The above is to calculate the character's maximum grace. I should have stated that. Sorry that my comments implied that I think that it should be mechanical (that is, regaining it).
The fact that Grace is earned, and spells/miracles are not merely refreshed is a really good and fitting concept.
But I do not think that the baseline should be optional. I think that it should be standardized, and GMs can deviate from that as an option (they would do it whether or not the book brings it up as an option).
The above mechanics are for making a baseline between character classes. A Paladin does not normally have as much miracle/spell ability as a Cleric. Additionally, a multiclassed character can get tricky, and just adding Caster Levels up as a sum between the classes is a simpler option, as is increasing the character's grace pool maximum. That is the word that I should have added, maximum. Again, sorry for not realizing that just because it is obvious to me it is not obvious to a reader.