Balance WotR against 5 PCs with high rolled stats

[Krinn]

Hi again!
My characters rolled their stats, and they rolled really well using my GM dices (4d6, drop lowest method, a single reroll for the whole set was available if desired but one had to take the second set even if it was worse)...
Their total modifiers, before racial adjustments, went between +9 and +11, much more than the average +5 the AP is built on. In addition, they're 5 PCs rather than 4.

To keep things interesting and balanced, I thought about increasing the number of monsters by 50% or otherwise raise the CR of encounters by +1 if increasing monsters was not practical (such as many boss fights).

Story xp would stay the same, but combat xp would increase 50%.
Let's say a party of 4 would get 400 xp from the story and 400 xp from a fight, that's 100+100=200 xp for each character.
With this 5 PC party, they'd get 400 xp from the story and 600 xp from a fight, that's 80+120=200 xp for each character.
This is pretty much even assuming XP gained through story and fights are somewhat equal in the AP.

Treasure-wise, a similar math applies.

Would you do something different to keep the story and the fights interesting for this overpowered party?

Thanks!

[Tangent101]

I'd say increase the number of monsters by 50% and be prepared to give the monsters full hit points. In addition, for solo encounters, don't be afraid to give that person or entity a couple minor minions to act as speedbumps (like trained dire rats for a certain nutty wizard early on).

I'd not bother increasing treasure. The lesser amount of treasure by one person is not significant.

[Krinn]

Thanks for the suggestions!
I was afraid that also increasing monsters hp to full would be too much.
Adding dire rats (or other minions) ought to be easier than adding a full new level and recalculate everything, yes.

Some monsters, such as extra enemy NPCs already "increase" treasure just for their equipment alone, I guess that's all the increase they will get then...

[magnuskn]

You are going to be okay until the middle levels (which this time around is already at the end of book two), then, depending on the group set-up, then the usual buff synergy and action economy issues are going to stack up, which is when 50% more enemies and maxed HP don't really cut it anymore. At that time, measures like unfavorable terrain, dispelling and targeted countermeasures to the strongest characters may have to be implemented.

I am much in the same boat as you, with six players at a 20 point buy. The group is shaping up to be a strong one, too, with two arcane full casters (Wizard, Sorcerer) and a Paladin, aside from the Cleric, Barbarian and archer Ranger. I'll know the details next week.

[Tangent101]

Once the action economy starts to be a problem, double the number of foes. Be careful though not to overwhelm them! ;)

[magnuskn]

And be careful to not overwhelm yourself, either. Those very large combats get difficult to keep track off fast.

[Vhalantru]

Also, consider not giving them some of the ability score boosts that the campaign gives them in order to reduce their power level quite a bit.

[Krinn]

Big fights are not a problem, I regularly run dozens of foes (even high level) at the end of their previous home-made campaign... Riedran Inspired aren't known to be shy on calling reinforcements ;)

However, action-economy wise, wouldn't 50% more monsters (that is 50% more actions) be enough since the PCs actually only have 25% more actions (50% in the case of magnusk's 6-people party)?

[magnuskn]

Nope. The other thing I mentioned, buff synergy, is the other big advantage factor for player characters. If you suddenly got place for a bard or other buff-heavy class, expect effectiveness to increase by a good additional 25% to 75% or so, depending on how much your buff-class players plan out their day.

Example: I just finished Jade Regent with said six player group. The party included two Ninjas, one Cleric, one archer Fighter, one Eldritch Knight and one Bard, with one additional NPC using my homebrewn Swashbuckler class. The Bard and Cleric raised the to-hit ratio of the party by +6, with another +5 to +8 in case of the Ninjas (due to Bestow Grace of the Champion from the Cleric) via Haste, Blessing of Fervor and the Bards Inspire Courage. If the Bard had additionally thought of getting Heroism and Greater Heroism (or just Good Hope) there easily could have been another +2 to +4 to hit for the martials. That's a total actual of +6 to +14 to hit, with a potential of +8 to +18 to hit.

As you might imagine, the final fight of the campaign only lasted into the second round because the archer player got a bit snippy, since the only enemy left alive when his turn came about was the summoned Elder Earth Elemental (which promptly was Dismissal'ed at the start of round two).

Buff synergy helps with getting all your attacks to count, since even the last iterative attacks have a high chance of hitting enemies. Actually almost impossible to hit enemies are a rarity in AP's, much less so than almost impossible to hit player characters.

All that said, it also depends on party composition. If that six player party consists of non-buff classes, much less adjustments are needed later in the campaign. But normally in such a big party you will encounter at least two buff heavy classes.

[Krinn]

Bard (Songhealer), Alchemist (Vivisectionist and Chirurgeon going into Master Chymist), Paladin (Oath vs Fiends), Wizard (Counterspell school going into Riftwarden) and Soulknife (a homebrewed adaptation, very similar to a monk)

Buff Synergy would also benefit the enemies in some cases (adding a bard instead of another fighter) plus max hp... I guess I could always adjust monster numbers and use terrain anyway.

[magnuskn]

Whatever works. The point I am trying to make is that the higher levels will require some extensive re-working. Your group looks very solid in its composition.