Currently working on a 20-pt buy character that would be akin to a properly trained soldier. In essence, this character would be relatively self-sufficient and very well-rounded in battlefield capabilities (as well as some social).
The bare-bones build that I would like to build off is as follows:
Human, Fighter (Tactician)
STR - 14
DEX - 16 (+2 race bonus included here)
CON - 14
INT - 10
WIS - 12
CHA - 13
His stats are pretty average, but that's mainly because I want to avoid the stereotypical Fighter with min-maxed phys stats (not that there is anything wrong with that, I just don't want that for this character). I also want a 13 in CHA so I can pick up Eldritch Heritage later on.
What I am having issues with are questions like: what feats would be good for him? What traits would be fun (looking at Dangerously Curious for wand-using action later on)? I want to take a Monk dip for IUS and Imp Grapple (since I feel most properly trained soldiers can scrap with their fists if need be), but what archetypes and how many levels should I dip? What EH bloodlines do you suggest?
I want to avoid the TWF or THW Fighter who focuses everything on a single weapon or weapon group...let's shoot for variety for this guy! So throw me your fun/crazy ideas: any suggestion is welcome!
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Oh.
I thought this was a Bard build.
Are you taking levels in Bard? Maybe, Archeologist?
Seconding bbt's suggestion, but if youre set on fighter, look at the lore warden fighter with a possible dip into maneuver master monk if you want some grapplan' action.
You could do a bit of both.
blackbloodtroll wrote: You could do a bit of both. personally i find bard to be rather unsatisfying to dip, since youd be shooting yourself in the foot on all its level dependant things (spells, luck, bardic knowledge, rogue talent gains, etc.) and just dipping 1-2 in lore warden might be cool except going for maneuvers on a 3/4bab class is suffering, so that aspect might be kinda wasted.
Haha, I realize that this pretty much seems like a Bard in everything but name, but I really want to make a non-traditional Fighter character.
The Lore Warden is interesting, but I'm gunning for the Tactician archetype (for the 4 skill points in any skill rather than INT). However, I will keep this in mind! And the MM Monk seems cool, too. Could I use the Flurry of Maneuvers while wearing armor/using a shield though?
You might consider a Magus dip along with your fighter. Arcane pool is awfully handy for making the weapon at hand the best one for the job. I played from lvl 1-9 without picking up an actual magical weapon, because I could add that as combat started or drew near.
Jaatu Bronzescale wrote: You might consider a Magus dip along with your fighter. Arcane pool is awfully handy for making the weapon at hand the best one for the job. I played from lvl 1-9 without picking up an actual magical weapon, because I could add that as combat started or drew near.
This seems interesting, but with my INT mod of +0, I would get only 1 point/day for a 1 level dip. But if I did do this, what spells would you suggest I pick up?
Adventure Path Charter Subscriber
I've a need to be up very early in the morn, some guys named Mumford are playing in town and everyone is in a great hissy fit, but I will give you some input on feats.
Power Attack, to make every hit hurt.
Dodge, to stay out of harms way.
Mobility, when you do something foolish, its that much harder to hit you.
Quick Draw, right weapon for the job, every time, all the time.
Combat reflex, Attacks of opp even if you are flat footed is the key here.
Shield focus, more ac less hits with a shield.
Cleave, Great Cleave, Cleaving Finish, Improved Cleaving Finish, If I hit or kill you, I get your little dog too!
Deadly Aim, power attack for ranged weapons(javelins are your friend here!)
Wear your heavy armor, the gauntlets count weapons, so no need to waste feats to punch things. Truly, with number of great things to stab and chop with, punching something should be a last resort.
Your traits should be used to add to your list of class skills, not make to make your normal skills better. The Curious trait is great for Umd, BUT really, your arcane caster should have this covered.
Just my humble thoughts.
I will try to post some more tomorrow, but, for now t bedtime!
you would need int of at least 11 to get spells, and for only a lvl 1 dip it's not really worth it, as you'd be suffering arcane spell failure in medium or heavy armor.
Spells though:
True Strike - this is awesome with spell combat, as you take a -2 penalty to get +20 to the attack you want to pull off.
Call Weapon - situational, but useful if there's a specific weapon you need to handle the threat at hand, and an ally is wielding it.
Stand Guard - From Knights of the Inner Sea, lets you 'stay awake' through your rest, and still recover spells and heal as if you had rested.
Stone Fist - fixed duration, but a non-feat improved unarmed strike.
And since you have a spellbook, you can jack of all trades the entire lvl 1 list with a single level dip.
I like the idea of a smarter fighter, who's always got the right weapon, the right tactic, for the situation. Less Conan, more Boba Fett.
I'd go with lore warden, with a dip into alchemist. See the Witcher for a great example.
If you are human, you can try Martial Versatility, Critical Vesatility, Martial Mastery to be good with all weapons. If you like the tactician/battler leader role, maybe look at the Golden Legionaire prestige class. Maybe dip into a few feat chains, power attack, saving shield, combat reflexes, improved initiative are a good base.
Scott Williams 16 wrote: I've a need to be up very early in the morn, some guys named Mumford are playing in town and everyone is in a great hissy fit, but I will give you some input on feats.
Power Attack, to make every hit hurt.
Dodge, to stay out of harms way.
Mobility, when you do something foolish, its that much harder to hit you.
Quick Draw, right weapon for the job, every time, all the time.
Combat reflex, Attacks of opp even if you are flat footed is the key here.
Shield focus, more ac less hits with a shield.
Cleave, Great Cleave, Cleaving Finish, Improved Cleaving Finish, If I hit or kill you, I get your little dog too!
Deadly Aim, power attack for ranged weapons(javelins are your friend here!)
Wear your heavy armor, the gauntlets count weapons, so no need to waste feats to punch things. Truly, with number of great things to stab and chop with, punching something should be a last resort.
Your traits should be used to add to your list of class skills, not make to make your normal skills better. The Curious trait is great for Umd, BUT really, your arcane caster should have this covered.
Just my humble thoughts.
I will try to post some more tomorrow, but, for now t bedtime!
Excellent suggestions. Quick Draw will probably be vital for this build, and I had completely overlooked it!
As for Dangerously Curious, I want to give non-caster, wand-wielding a try, so I'm probably sticking with it (even though it will be a little difficult to pull off reliably until later levels). As for the trait though: assuming I don't dip a class that grants Perception, I was thinking about picking that up. Thoughts or suggestions of other traits?
Anonymous Visitor 163 576 wrote: I like the idea of a smarter fighter, who's always got the right weapon, the right tactic, for the situation. Less Conan, more Boba Fett. Haha, hadn't quite thought of Boba Fett when I was making this character, but that's an almost perfect way to describe him.
Anonymous Visitor 163 576 wrote:
I'd go with lore warden, with a dip into alchemist. See the Witcher for a great example.
Lore Warden is definitely a consideration (though the restriction on skill point use is a bit disheartening). As for Alchemist, what archetypes/spells/etc. would you suggest? And how many levels for the dip?
Play a ranger. Quote: Currently working on a 20-pt buy character that would be akin to a properly trained soldier. In essence, this character would be relatively self-sufficient and very well-rounded in battlefield capabilities (as well as some social). This is well within the fluff for ranger. Your 7 skill points per level and decent class skill list gives you a fair amount of versatility. Your versatility is further expanded by the spells you get. You don't need to meet the prerequisites to get your bonus feats which can really help. I'm a fan of the weapon and shield combat style. You can get early access to shield slam and shield master which gives you a way to bullrush and makes using TWF with shields much cheaper and gives you higher attack.
Also, if you go human and are planning on picking up eldritch heritage, there's an alternate racial trait to replace the bonus feat with a few skill focus feats. Since you'll have to pick it up anyway, it's free feats.
Vazt wrote: If you are human, you can try Martial Versatility, Critical Vesatility, Martial Mastery to be good with all weapons. If you like the tactician/battler leader role, maybe look at the Golden Legionaire prestige class. Maybe dip into a few feat chains, power attack, saving shield, combat reflexes, improved initiative are a good base. Those human feats look pretty awesome, though they only apply to weapon groups. I envision this character using polearms, sword/board, hand-to-hand, and ranged items (bows, javelins, etc.), so I'm not sure this feat chain would best.
And I will keep Golden Legionaire in mind. It definitely has a lot of flavor (and this character is all about that!)
Yes.
The Magic-less Jack of all trades could be done well with a Guide/Trapper Ranger.
I would reccomend lore warden, maybe student of war as well. It would give you an excuse to take Focused study (if human) and get some awesome skills.
Still, you're going to have to sacrifice something. I dont think it's possible to be EVERYTHING effectively. I've got my "dimensional whirlwind" build I tried to make, and it came out with a surprising amount of skill points/battle power:
Felicity
But she will never be a face. She'll be a bookish warrior, but never a face. (Might actually get to play her! Yippy!)
I would see those as the 3 cornerstones of a polivalent character:
1) Battle
2) Intelligence (skills)
3) Socializing (cha+skills)
I would look into rogue archetypes/bard archetypes.
Go human and take two or three human specific feats. Fast Leaner, Improvisation, Improved Improvisation.
4 skill points/level with your 10 int, all skills can be used untrained with a +4 bonus (plus any other mods).
Vivianne Laflamme wrote: Play a ranger. Quote: Currently working on a 20-pt buy character that would be akin to a properly trained soldier. In essence, this character would be relatively self-sufficient and very well-rounded in battlefield capabilities (as well as some social). This is well within the fluff for ranger. Your 7 skill points per level and decent class skill list gives you a fair amount of versatility. Your versatility is further expanded by the spells you get. You don't need to meet the prerequisites to get your bonus feats which can really help. I'm a fan of the weapon and shield combat style. You can get early access to shield slam and shield master which gives you a way to bullrush and makes using TWF with shields much cheaper and gives you higher attack.
Also, if you go human and are planning on picking up eldritch heritage, there's an alternate racial trait to replace the bonus feat with a few skill focus feats. Since you'll have to pick it up anyway, it's free feats. I honestly hadn't considered a Ranger. I tend to not care for the circumstantial bonuses that seem to flood the class, but with archetypes like Freebooter, I could mitigate some of it. It's definitely an idea, though I do lose out on a bunch of feats that I could otherwise use to diversify myself. Also, the combat mastery is akin to what I tend to dislike about most martial classes: pick a weapon/style and stick with it all game. Though the merit here is that the weapons themselves can be swapped out and it isn't like I can't be good with other weapons.
I'll definitely have to mull this one over, but thank you for mentioning it. Also, the three SF feats is an awesome suggestion. I will be taking that option for sure!
You could also nab the Quick Learner trait, which, combined with Improved Improvisation, leaves you with no proficiency penalty with any weapon.
blackbloodtroll wrote: Yes.
The Magic-less Jack of all trades could be done well with a Guide/Trapper Ranger.
I was considering Freebooter/Skirmisher. Do you prefer the Guide/Trapper for any specific reasons?
Trapper rids you of spells, and makes you able to do all the neat stuff Rogues do, without the crippling penalty of being a Rogue.
Also, it allows you to go Rambo, and make yourself a bunch traps.
It stacks with Guide, or Freebooter.
williamoak wrote: I would reccomend lore warden, maybe student of war as well. It would give you an excuse to take Focused study (if human) and get some awesome skills.
Still, you're going to have to sacrifice something. I dont think it's possible to be EVERYTHING effectively. I've got my "dimensional whirlwind" build I tried to make, and it came out with a surprising amount of skill points/battle power:
Felicity
But she will never be a face. She'll be a bookish warrior, but never a face. (Might actually get to play her! Yippy!)
I would see those as the 3 cornerstones of a polivalent character:
1) Battle
2) Intelligence (skills)
3) Socializing (cha+skills)
I would look into rogue archetypes/bard archetypes.
Felicity looks pretty cool, and she does her job well (zipping about and taking down enemies). I definitely hope you get a chance to play her.
As for this character: yeah, he won't do many things horribly effectively, but that's how I would like to play him (strange as that sounds). Being able to negotiate on his own without having to rely on a CHA monkey, or being able to use that Wand of Cure Mod to bring back the downed healer...that's the kind of resourceful, fun character I have in mind. With near full BAB (Monk/Alch/whatever dip will make the +20 unattainable), he'll still be a good combatant, too: he just won't be one-shot'ing enemies like a Barbarian.
blackbloodtroll wrote: Trapper rids you of spells, and makes you able to do all the neat stuff Rogues do, without the crippling penalty of being a Rogue.
Also, it allows you to go Rambo, and make yourself a bunch traps.
It stacks with Guide, or Freebooter.
Cool. Though I do worry about traps: I've heard from a number of people (both on this forum and off) that traps tend to be near worthless. Do you find this to be true?
Artanthos wrote:
Go human and take two or three human specific feats. Fast Leaner, Improvisation, Improved Improvisation.
4 skill points/level with your 10 int, all skills can be used untrained with a +4 bonus (plus any other mods).
That's quite cool, actually. And with the Quick Learner that BBT suggested, I could use virtually any weapon. Now that's neat.
Discomancer wrote:
Felicity looks pretty cool, and she does her job well (zipping about and taking down enemies). I definitely hope you get a chance to play her.
Seems unlikely now (the DM I was talking with knows few of the classes I wanted to include, and seems to think I'm trying to min-max). I hope you find something somewhat functional.
williamoak wrote: Discomancer wrote:
Felicity looks pretty cool, and she does her job well (zipping about and taking down enemies). I definitely hope you get a chance to play her.
Seems unlikely now (the DM I was talking with knows few of the classes I wanted to include, and seems to think I'm trying to min-max). I hope you find something somewhat functional. I'm sorry to hear that. Hopefully you can come to some kind of deal with your DM.
I'd go to Alchemist 2 for sure, possibly 4. No further.
The marvelous throw anything feat is always good, and you'll also get INT to splash weapons + bombs. That's amazing right there.
But you also get extracts, and even with two of them, Enlarge Person and Shield, you can really add a bit to the usual fighter thing.
Discomancer the whole twf thing, well, just for fun and shenanigans if you leave one hand open you could theory wise use your off hand for grapples/ dirty tricks...or main hand your empty hand, and off hand attack with your weapon.
Something someone pointed out too me not too long ago, a secondary attack does not have too be right hand/ left hand....it could be right hand and a left boot blade....etx....just my two cents...
Anonymous Visitor 163 576 wrote: I'd go to Alchemist 2 for sure, possibly 4. No further.
The marvelous throw anything feat is always good, and you'll also get INT to splash weapons + bombs. That's amazing right there.
But you also get extracts, and even with two of them, Enlarge Person and Shield, you can really add a bit to the usual fighter thing.
The INT bonus damage is good, but I don't plan on having my INT higher than 10-12 (though if I had a 25 pt buy, I would certainly consider boosting it more).
But the feat Throw Anything itself is something to consider for sure!
garvdart wrote: Discomancer the whole twf thing, well, just for fun and shenanigans if you leave one hand open you could theory wise use your off hand for grapples/ dirty tricks...or main hand your empty hand, and off hand attack with your weapon.
Something someone pointed out too me not too long ago, a secondary attack does not have too be right hand/ left hand....it could be right hand and a left boot blade....etx....just my two cents...
With the possibility of dipping Maneuver Master Monk, I will be looking at TWF (in a sense). Dirty Tricks sound like they might be the best way to go as well, so a free hand to poke their eyes out might be warranted.
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