I'm putting together an oracle for a tweaked Serpent's Skull AP. The point buy is 15. Skills will probably be very important and access to magic items will be limited. Hp progression is average per level -- 4.5 for d8 etc.
The game master running this particular event is well known for enjoying putting characters in very tough situations, adding intricate puzzles, and being ruthless ala old style d&d. The party composition is rogue, magus, archer-ranger and me.
Though I am loath to play a pure healer, I'm extraordinarily doubtful that we'll have the opportunity to buy or craft the usual cure light wounds wand. So the role of healer is one that must be filled. I'm leaning toward building the character from an oracle of life chassis and picking spells for both off tanking, control, and the odd blast while relying on the life oracle's healing special abilities more than the cure spell slots. Alternately, I could lean more toward a Gish style oracle.
Character alignment is chaotic neutral and, if elven, she's forlorn with both a touch of the benevolent and the demonic -- a conflicted soul that finely balances compassion and rage.
Since I'll be starting at lvl 3, I've picked energy body and channel energy for revelations. Elf or human is the race with ancient lorekeeper as the archetype. But I'm not going to list the full build yet as I'd like to keep the forum open.
First, I'd like to see any and all suggestions on how to best build this character out, what roles the character will need to fill in this party mix, as well as any thoughts on the overall survivability of the group. Last of all, I'm concerned about how fun this particular character will be to play. So building for play enjoyment is also a huge must.
well... i've never played that AP (or any other) but it sounds like you're pretty well hosed. right now your party has very little survivability- your highest HP and AC will probably be your archer (yikes). a paladin would be helpful (since they can protect and heal), but that sounds way off from what you want to play.
given the party comp, your best bet for surviving is to focus on what the party can do- burst damage. even the best healer won't be able to keep 3 glass cannons going in a prolonged fight. instead of life, think about a flame oracle (with the blackened curse). take cures for your free spells, and pick a couple buff/defense spells known- if you have time to buff, try to up people's survivability, and heal when (absolutely) necessary, but embrace the idea that the best defense is a good offense (like the rest of your party has). if aasimar are allowed, the emberkin gives +2 Cha (so you could start with an 18) and +2 Int (so it'll be easier to get extra skills), they also get Pyrotechnics 1/day as a SLA which could prove helpful.
nate lange wrote: well... i've never played that AP (or any other) but it sounds like you're pretty well hosed. right now your party has very little survivability- your highest HP and AC will probably be your archer (yikes). a paladin would be helpful (since they can protect and heal), but that sounds way off from what you want to play.
given the party comp, your best bet for surviving is to focus on what the party can do- burst damage. even the best healer won't be able to keep 3 glass cannons going in a prolonged fight. instead of life, think about a flame oracle (with the blackened curse). take cures for your free spells, and pick a couple buff/defense spells known- if you have time to buff, try to up people's survivability, and heal when (absolutely) necessary, but embrace the idea that the best defense is a good offense (like the rest of your party has). if aasimar are allowed, the emberkin gives +2 Cha (so you could start with an 18) and +2 Int (so it'll be easier to get extra skills), they also get Pyrotechnics 1/day as a SLA which could prove helpful.
Yikes is right. :)
I've considered playing a paladin. But I think loss of key required spells hurts our survivability even more.
Will take a look at the flame oracle as a good suggestion for the burst damage route. Unfortunately, we have only narrow race options -- human, half orc, half elf, elf, and saurians.
Going Paladin and bringing cure wands might be the better option :P
karlbadmannersV2 wrote: Going Paladin and bringing cure wands might be the better option :P I was waiting for this one ;)
I find it kind of funny that almost everyone on the boards sees this as a permanent option. In our game, sadly, it's not.
Chromnos wrote: karlbadmannersV2 wrote: Going Paladin and bringing cure wands might be the better option :P I was waiting for this one ;)
I find it kind of funny that almost everyone on the boards sees this as a permanent option. In our game, sadly, it's not. It's seen that way because because they usually are. Most people give advice based on assumptions of normality unless told otherwise :P
Personally with this party make-up, if I had to balance the options of having a lot of excellent defense and minor healing(PAL) ability versus mediocre defense and lots of healing(ORCL), I would chose the former. Considering most people's view on healing in combat, and the ability to smite evil foes the paladin wins.
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Ranger can also use wands, and the rogue REALLY should have UMD.
They didn't make healers either, why is this your problem?
Anonymous Visitor 163 576 wrote: Ranger can also use wands, and the rogue REALLY should have UMD.
They didn't make healers either, why is this your problem?
Good question.
In short, I'd like to see the party win. That generally involves everyone not dying. The move heal and the AOE heal go a long way toward achieving that goal.
I know the optimization boards don't really see healing as effective in play. But in game, the difference between a rogue at 1 hp and a rogue at zero equals a boatload of dpr, plus the live body keeping enemies at bay.
And while it is boring to be the go to healer, it is vicious playing in a game without one. Which is why I'm looking for help balancing fun and necessity. Through the higher levels, this build ain't too bad. Does Codzilla decently and can both summon and blast if need be.
I'm just fishing for more insight if anyone's got it.
karlbadmannersV2 wrote:
It's seen that way because because they usually are. Most people give advice based on assumptions of normality unless told otherwise :P
Personally with this party make-up, if I had to balance the options of having a lot of excellent defense and minor healing(PAL) ability versus mediocre defense and lots of healing(ORCL), I would chose the former. Considering most people's view on healing in combat, and the ability to smite evil foes the paladin wins.
Pally ends up with more hp, but not too much more AC, better saves, far less healing, and hits about the same dpr. I lose restoration and all the benis that go with a full caster progression (versatility, blasts, summons, buffs). With ancient lorekeeper, I also get to expand party access to wizard spells (magus only goes to 6). This fills quite a few gaps.
Also the pally in Serpent probably wouldn't work too well. Jungle and heavy armor don't mix.
There is as usual a lot to be said for a 2 level dip into paladin for boosting survivability.
Osyluth Guile is a possible feat you might be interested in for off-tanking, especially if you'll already be investing in party face skills.
Might be a thought to mix with Compel Hostility?
Heavens and Dark Tapestry oracles are generally what appeal most to me in terms of fun, and Dual Cursed's misfortune is great for helping boost survivability (just say no to crits and failed will saves).
For a blasting option thrown in there, if you feel comfortable completely neglecting reliance on a weapon as part of the character build, you could mix Blackened and Wrecker curses for a fairly potent 2nd level curse spell that gives -6 to weapon attack rolls for an enemy.
(Have started to muse on the roleplay possibility of a paladin oracle whose power stems from the dark tapestry now...)
What are the spells you're thinking of getting via ancient lorekeeper?
*Edit* By the way, Saurians?
Chromnos wrote: Anonymous Visitor 163 576 wrote: Ranger can also use wands, and the rogue REALLY should have UMD.
They didn't make healers either, why is this your problem?
Good question.
In short, I'd like to see the party win. That generally involves everyone not dying. The move heal and the AOE heal go a long way toward achieving that goal.
More important, in my opinion, is getting the players to work together. That will have more impact than anything else. If everyone is contributing toward the shared success, then you're going to do well. If the other three players are determined to play their concepts, and leaving you with the rest of the work, you might not be able to help them.
I don't know any of these people, but it's a potential problem to watch for.
Have you thought about cleric? Having all spells on the list available is a huge boon in the case there is no guaranteed outside help. Also do you think scribe scroll is possible?
Rashagar wrote: There is as usual a lot to be said for a 2 level dip into paladin for boosting survivability.
Osyluth Guile is a possible feat you might be interested in for off-tanking, especially if you'll already be investing in party face skills.
Might be a thought to mix with Compel Hostility?
Heavens and Dark Tapestry oracles are generally what appeal most to me in terms of fun, and Dual Cursed's misfortune is great for helping boost survivability (just say no to crits and failed will saves).
For a blasting option thrown in there, if you feel comfortable completely neglecting reliance on a weapon as part of the character build, you could mix Blackened and Wrecker curses for a fairly potent 2nd level curse spell that gives -6 to weapon attack rolls for an enemy.
(Have started to muse on the roleplay possibility of a paladin oracle whose power stems from the dark tapestry now...)
What are the spells you're thinking of getting via ancient lorekeeper?
*Edit* By the way, Saurians?
A dark tapestry Pally oracle sounds enormously fun, especially in rp. I just don't know how it would work out with a lawful good alignment. Sounds like a very conflicted character to say the least (which could be fun).
That feat/spell combo is a brilliant catch 22 that is well worth looking at.
I am weapon addicted, sad to say. Although your advice is very creative and thematic.
So far I have:
0 ray of frost
1. Enlarge (retrain to magic missile at 10)
2. Invisibility, or scorching ray, or mirror image
3. Fireball or lightning bolt
4. Stoneskin
5. Cone of cold
6. Form of dragon I then refocus to x
7. Form of dragon II then refocus to magic jar
8. Form of dragon III
The mojo I'm working on is of a girl who's part angel, part demon.
Feat progression:
1. Weapon focus
2. Arcane strike
3. Power attack
5. Skills focus planes
7. Extra revelation
9. Eldritch Heritage (abyssal)
11. Eldritch heritage (abyssal imp)
13. Intensify spell
15. Quicken spell
17. Empower spell
19. ?
Anonymous Visitor 163 576 wrote:
More important, in my opinion, is getting the players to work together. That will have more impact than anything else. If everyone is contributing toward the shared success, then you're going to do well. If the other three players are determined to play their concepts, and leaving you with the rest of the work, you might not be able to help them.
I don't know any of these people, but it's a potential problem to watch for.
This is fantastic advice. My original concepts were either for a sorcerer or a summoner, with a lean toward the summoner. One of the players preferred to play a rogue, but would play cleric if no-one else pitched in. If you knew this guy, you'd know it's a huge stretch to play a cleric. I figured I could still have fun if I got the build right and avoided using half my actions picking these guys up off the floor.
Riku Riekkinen wrote: Have you thought about cleric? Having all spells on the list available is a huge boon in the case there is no guaranteed outside help. Also do you think scribe scroll is possible? Quite honestly, if I play a healer, I prefer it to be an oracle. The class seems more interesting to me and I'm quite attracted to dipping into the wizard spell list for 8 levels running. And the revelations are just plain cool. Now, if there's a cleric suggestion you have that you think might work better for both fun and survivability, feel free to toss it out there.
I could take craft scroll or wand (lol) at lvl 5. That might help a bit ;)
I would probably recommend going Life Oracle, Dual Cursed. The main benefit of this is that you can use misfortune to help with keeping damage off the players during early rounds, so you have the ability to do spell casting the first few rounds, then start channeling once multiple players start taking damage. As you probably know, the cure spells are innefficient, so focus only on the healing that is more effective than you directly contributing.
Doree wrote: I would probably recommend going Life Oracle, Dual Cursed. The main benefit of this is that you can use misfortune to help with keeping damage off the players during early rounds, so you have the ability to do spell casting the first few rounds, then start channeling once multiple players start taking damage. As you probably know, the cure spells are innefficient, so focus only on the healing that is more effective than you directly contributing. Dual curse is extraordinarily effective. And I may well take a dip in it. Unfortunately, it ruins my fun with wizard spells as ancient lorekeeper conflicts.
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