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Ran into this at a game last saturday, and I am a bit confused as to how particular effects interact.
To lay out the situation: Group is engaging a succubus and a couple other minor demons. My character (3clr/3wiz/2MyT) has an active Magic Circle against evil on his person. The emanation covers our 2hand fighter, and one of the lesser demons attempts to charm person on him.
The GM, who is also one of our local VCs, said that charm since it is not a possession or mental control spell is allowed through the circle. What eventually played out was that because of the second effect of the circle suppressing the charm effect, the fighter ended up being charmed, but was saved by the circle suppressing the effect till after the fight.
My questions are these:
1) Has there been any clarification and or FAQ as to what constitutes "Exerting mental control" as stated under protection from evil?
2) What is supposed to happen in this situation?
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Second, the subject immediately receives another saving throw (if one was allowed to begin with) against any spells or effects that possess or exercise mental control over the creature (including enchantment [charm] effects and enchantment [compulsion] effects, such as charm person, command, and dominate person. This saving throw is made with a +2 morale bonus, using the same DC as the original effect. If successful, such effects are suppressed for the duration of this spell. The effects resume when the duration of this spell expires. While under the effects of this spell, the target is immune to any new attempts to possess or exercise mental control over the target. This spell does not expel a controlling life force (such as a ghost or spellcaster using magic jar), but it does prevent them from controlling the target. This second effect only functions against spells and effects created by evil creatures or objects, subject to GM discretion.
Charm person is a mental control spell, as specifically stated in the spell description of protection from evil. It should have not worked.
Charm Person can affect characters protected by a protection spell, but only if in place at the time the protection spell is cast. Even then, the character gets a second save and, if successful, the effects are suppressed for the duration of the protection provided by the relevant spell.
New attempts do not function on characters protected by the spell. This sounded like a new attempt so as Deadmoon stated, it should not have worked. I believe the VC probably stopped reading after "The effects resume when the duration of this spell expires" and missed "While under the effects of this spell, the target is immune to any new attempts to possess or exercise mental control over the target".
That's how I understand it to work, anyway.
Yar!
In your presented situation, it should not have worked.
Not related to your specific situation, there is one thing that I've seen many people forget: the last sentence.
...only functions against spells and effects created by evil creatures or objects...
So a neutral enemy could charm a person protected with Protection from Evil, as could a good aligned adversary, but not an evil one.
...but yeah, Deadmoon and fretgod99 covered the gist of it, though "subject to GM discretion" is always a potential workaround.
~P
Yar!
...
but yeah, Deadmoon and fretgod99 covered the gist of it, though "subject to GM discretion" is always a potential workaround.
~P
In all fairness, the character would be perfectly justified in derailing the campaign entirely by attempting to find out how a succubus and their minor demons were able to overcome a protection from evil spell. This would seem to indicate that the demons were not evil, lost the evil descriptor, and other mechanics. It would be even more awkward if there was a Paladin who used a smite evil and it worked.
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In all fairness, the character would be perfectly justified in derailing the campaign entirely by attempting to find out how a succubus and their minor demons were able to overcome a protection from evil spell. This would seem to indicate that the demons were not evil, lost the evil descriptor, and other mechanics. It would be even more awkward if there was a Paladin who used a smite evil and it worked.Yar!
...
but yeah, Deadmoon and fretgod99 covered the gist of it, though "subject to GM discretion" is always a potential workaround.
~P
Part of the issue with that is that this was a Society scenario.
My main concern with this situation is that I don't feel like there is a clear delineation between what is considered mind affecting spells, and spells that exert control. It has been argued that because charm person only improves a person's attitude to a particular being, that you aren't actively exerting control, and thereby protection from evil would not apply its effects. Now it does specifically cite the suppression of such effects in the suppression section of the spell.
I guess what I am wanting is a better understanding of what the phrase exert mental control means. Is it any mind affecting spell, is it any mind affecting spell that compels someone to act in a way not normal, is it only domination effects?
I ran that scenario and as a DM I wasted their mind control on character immune to it.
It is a powerfull tactic, and I felt the monsters would nto know the player was protected.
You should message your VC that message from deadmoon. Since VOs are seen as an authority they need to be corrected because other players will use them as reference for incorrect rules.
I am honestly sick of the I am a VO, I do not need to look at the rule book you show me.
Found the FAQ link here. Seems pretty clear to me. Unless the caster wasn't evil, charm person shouldn't have worked:
Protection From Evil: Does this work against all charm and compulsion effects? Or just against charm and compulsion effects where the caster is able to exercise control over the target, such as charm person, command, and dominate person (and thus not effects like sleep or confusion, as the caster does not have ongoing influence or puppet-like control of the target)?
The latter interpretation is correct: protection from evil only works on charm and compulsion effects where the caster is able to exercise control over the target, such as command, charm person, and dominate person; it doesn't work on sleep or confusion. (Sleep is a border case for this issue, but the designers feel that "this spell overrides your brain's sleep centers" is different enough than "this spell overrides your resistance to commands from others.")