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Greetings,
I have a player who is a mounted combat dwarf samurai and is using his mount for cover from melee attacks. Is this allowed? If so, can the action be performed without any hands free?
I'll give you all a situation that occurred recently: dwarf samurai is wielding a dwarven longhammer (reach weapon) while mounted on his horse. An enemy charges him and he takes his AoO as the enemy provokes due to movement while charging in. As I'm rolling the attack, the samurai says he wants to ride check for cover against the attack.
I initially didn't let him as I didn't think it made much sense for the samurai to make the AoO and duck for cover using his mount at virtually the same time. What would you all have done? I've since gone back on my decision and have decided to just let him do what the rules say he can by RAW which is basically whatever he wants.
Here is the cover entry for reference:
Cover: You can react instantly to drop down and hang alongside your mount, using it as cover. You can't attack or cast spells while using your mount as cover. If you fail your Ride check, you don't get the cover benefit. Using this option is an immediate action, but recovering from this position is a move action (no check required).
My question is why is this not fleshed out at all.
I can perform this as an immediate action, no hands required, it works against melee attacks, and my opponents can't even attack my mount in place of swinging at me since I am using my mount for cover?
It seems to be a once a round free +4 to ac with no restrictions essentially (as the cover isn't even given a direction like a tower shield).
I would like to see more rules for this maybe but I don't think any are published.
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If he has cover from the opponent, does the opponent have cover from him?
The important thing to remember is that you cannot make attacks of opportunity against someone with any sort of cover.
So if cover is two way in your example, he would not be able to make his AoO by ducking down behind the mount.
Similarly, he could avoid any AoO by using the same trick. Now they might still wack the horse instead I suppose, since it doesn't have cover and I assume is provoking the same as its rider.
Mounted combat confuses me though, so mileage may vary! =)
The order of actions was as follows:
1. Charging enemy provokes due to movement,
2. PC takes AoO,
3. Charging enemy makes attack,
4. PC uses immediate action to grant cover.
Based on the order of things, he made the AoO while no cover existed.
Don't forget the penalty in his next turn. He doesn't have a swift action (he used it as an immediate action) and he has to make a move action before he can attack or cast spells, so no full attack action, either. It's a class special ability and while useful, not particularly overwhelming.
This is not a class special ability. This is under the ride skill check.
ANYONE on a horse can do this. While I do see some limitations (such as the move action recovery and no swift), it seems awfully powerful.
I also still have qualms with the "cover" which is seemingly provided in EVERY direction. Honestly it would be fine if he had cover relative to one square/opponent.
This thematically was for when a rider wants to avoid arrows while charging into a fight (I think so anyways), and yet he can use it in melee as an immediate action at the end of his turn to add a +4 to his ac due to cover against anyone that attacks him for a move action to recover. While he might not ALWAYS do that, it is a very tasty to avoid doing that say if your going to take 4 or 5 attacks in a round.
Im all for tactical combat actions, but this one seems a little bit ridiculous. Almost like the pathfinder version of 3.5s tumble. Something everyone will wanna do if they are ever on a horse and getting attacked. And for the first five levels (before +6) its honestly a little over powered (since you basically deny yourself nothing because your horse can move for you by RAW).
While it is definitely not RAW, my DM tries to balance it by saying that if I'm using my mount as cover and the enemy's attack misses by 4 or less, it hits the mount instead.
I'm not totally convinced on it being useful like that, but it does make sense conceptually.
this would be my exact suggestion. If you miss by the cover, you hit the cover. The cover is your horse.
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As I might want to point out, immediate actions and attacks of opportunities both take up swift actions and you only get one swift action a round. If he takes an attack of opportunities that round, he can't us the cover combat check later in the round until his next turn.
Now the caviler in my party changes his tactics depending on what you do. If you hit him, he uses the cover trick. Or if you try to hit his horse, he uses some other ride check that negates the damage that I can't seem to find in the book at this moment.
As I might want to point out, immediate actions and attacks of opportunities both take up swift actions and you only get one swift action a round. If he takes an attack of opportunities that round, he can't us the cover combat check later in the round until his next turn.
Now the caviler in my party changes his tactics depending on what you do. If you hit him, he uses the cover trick. Or if you try to hit his horse, he uses some other ride check that negates the damage that I can't seem to find in the book at this moment.
An attack of opportunity is not a swift action. If it was, combat reflexes and the like would be utterly pointless as you could only ever take one a round.
Attacks of Opportunity
Sometimes a combatant in a melee lets her guard down or takes a reckless action. In this case, combatants near her can take advantage of her lapse in defense to attack her for free. These free attacks are called attacks of opportunity.
EDIT:The second part is Mounted Combat feat and takes an immediate action as well.
Mounted Combat (Combat)
You are adept at guiding your mount through combat.
Prerequisite: Ride 1 rank.
Benefit: Once per round when your mount is hit in combat, you may attempt a Ride check (as an immediate action) to negate the hit. The hit is negated if your Ride check result is greater than the opponent's attack roll.
Attacks of Opportunity are not immediate actions or swift actions,
AoOs are on their own 'AoO Economy' (normally 1/round) that has no relation to other Core Rules actions.
The only relation to immediate actions is that both 'interrupt' an action/event before it can complete,
but so do Readied Actions which are Standard Actions.
EDIT: Yeah. Ninja'd.
A lot of housing here, which is fine, but not really necessary. This ability is not powerful at all, though it is tactically useful at some points.
Thirk Ironbladder can make his attack of opportunity, then spend his immediate action to drop for cover (yes, from all sides; pretend he's hanging underneath the mount). In exchange, he can't make further attacks of opportunity, and he'll have to use a move action next turn to get back up, leaving him unable to full-attack or do any of the cool full-round actions a mounted combatant uses. How is this "awfully powerful"?
And no, you don't hit the mount. Otherwise, you might as well bring back the old firing into melee rules and ruin ranged combat forever.
Using this option is an immediate action, but recovering from this position is a move action (no check required).I wonder if, instead of spending a move action to recover, you could spend a free action to fast dismount, and another free action to fast mount?
I suppose by RAW, but I'd advise GM discretion as to whether hanging from the saddle still qualifies you to fast dismount normally.
I wonder if, instead of spending a move action to recover, you could spend a free action to fast dismount, and another free action to fast mount?
You can fast dismount/fast mount, but the penalty still applies until you spend a move action: no attacks or spells.
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I think this use of a mount to provide cover is RAW.
If a PC kept doing this, all his enemies would just start targeting his mount though.
Free actions wrote "However, there are reasonable limits on what you can really do for free, as decided by the GM." This allows a GM to shut down the free action dismount and mount.