So, I made a dwarven bones oracle thinking it was a wisdom based class. I was dead wrong, and it turns out that with that -2 charisma, dwarves don't make good oracles.
Normal difficulty: Is it possible to make this class/race combo somewhat viable?
Heroic difficulty: Can it excel in melee combat? Because...
Legendary difficulty: Said dwarf oracle took clouded vision as its curse.
I don't expect this character to be a killing machine, I just don't want to waste time on a character that can't do anything but die a horrible and early death because it's fundamentally flawed.
I have my heart set on the bones mystery plus the clouded vision curse. I figure that the 30 ft sight won't be too terrible because I don't see this build throwing spells around the field too successfully due to the charisma issue.
Attributes, feats, revelations, and spells are still up in the air since I'm starting from scratch.
And I should mention this is my first spell caster character in PF, so I'm pretty much clueless.
The 30ft vision could be a problem if you have to tell your undead minions whom to attack.
With a 20 pointbuy creation, what should my attributes look like? And what revelations and feats would tie it together nicely?
The 30ft vision could be a problem if you have to tell your undead minions whom to attack.
That is very true, but I think I would use them mostly as a screen and making the 30 ft around me a deathtrap. But I don't know casters well enough to know if that will work.
Pump all 20 pts into Charisma and otherwise stay out of combat. That's what the minions are for.
Pump all 20 pts into Charisma and otherwise stay out of combat. That's what the minions are for.
Seconded. Mixing two viable things don't always make a viable build.
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I played a Human Oracle of Bones with the Clouded Vision curse.
I would suggest a decent CHA, and then a decent DEX to get that AC up.
I never had a problem really with the 30' sight thing, because most of the time we were playing in a city and between being in between buildings or inside them, and most of the rooms we were in were less than 30x30.
Obviously you don't want to be caught in a wide open field, and I'd stay away from ranged attacks.
I would play up the benefits of Dwarves, with the ability to wear medium armor and not lose speed, and your save bonuses.
I used a flail, and focused on using my undead minions as flanking buddies to help ofset my otherwise feeble combat skills.
All in all he was a fun, flavorful character to play.
I would suggest learning obscuring mist ore something similar. That way, if you do get cought in the open by archers, you can hide from them within the cloud.
I think you could make a dwarven melee oracle that works just fine, especially if you added a level of fighter (or whatever) for better weapons and armor. The cleric spell list has lots of combat buffs that don't rely on a high casting stat (no DC = no problem).
is this for society play or a home game?
multiclassing with barbarian (with spirit totem) will open up some combat options, increase your survivability, and reduce the impact of your reduced Cha (and, i think, has nice thematic synergy). there's also the option of taking the Rage Prophet PrC, which is why i asked if it was society play... the way savage seer (one of PrC class features) is worded, it seems like it should allow you to use the extra revelation and extra rage power feats to pick up higher level abilites (for example at oracle 4/barb 2/RP 3 taking a revelation that requires oracle 7); i played one in a home game and it worked well (and was not at all unbalancing), but my understanding is that you can't do that in society play at all.
Rage prophet is challenging. I would stick with straight oracle.
Here is my dissenting build:
Str 14
Dex 10
Con 14 + 2
Int 12
Wis 8 + 2
Cha 16 - 2
traits:
zest for battle
sacred conduit
1st
heavy armor proficency
Discovery: Deaths Touch
3rd
spell focus: necromancy
Discovery: Undead Servitude
5th
improved channel
7th
undead mastery
Discovery: Bleeding Wounds
9th
spell specialization: animate dead
Near Death
.. and so on. Use level boosts to statistics to add to charisma.
At low levels, you bless and wade in with hammer and death's touch. Once you get Animate Dead, you make friends.
So playing a casting class on a race not known for being spell slingers
Not playing a caster that makes use of the race's bonus.
Playing a caster that has his dump stat as his casting stat
One of the most crippling flaws chosen as the oracle curse.
Wants to melee.
First time playing a caster.
Just stop, do not play this character with a group, they don't deserve a party anchor of this magnitude. It is unfair to inflict garbage that is this mechanically inept on anybody. This build is more than fundamentally flawed, it is designed to fail and you know it or you wouldn't have posted it.
Go with something like
ST 10
DX 14
CN 14(+2)
INT 12
WS 10 (+2)
CH 15(-2)
Your DC’s will be two lower than most starting Oracles, but it’s playable. That or ask for a do-over.
Just stop, do not play this character with a group, they don't deserve a party anchor of this magnitude. It is unfair to inflict garbage that is this mechanically inept on anybody. This build is more than fundamentally flawed, it is designed to fail and you know it or you wouldn't have posted it.
That's exaggerating things a wee bit.
Here's one possibility:
Str 16 [10]
Dex 10
Con 16 [5]
Int 10
Wis 12
Cha 12 [5]
Oracle 1: feat = Improved Init, revelation = Near Death
Fighter 1: feat = Power Attack
Oracle 2: feat = Ironhide
Oracle 3: revelation = Voice of the Grave
etc.
Use a dwarven waraxe and a few cleric buffs like Bless, Shield of Faith, Divine Favor, Bull's Strength, Blessing of Fervor, etc. and you're a reasonable melee fighter with undead minions on the side. Just don't forget to buy a headband of Cha every once in a while (Cha +2 by level 6, Cha +4 by level 10, and Cha +6 by level 14)
Why would he take near death? That's terrible.
You want Undead Servitude. Or maybe Death's Touch + Bleeding Wounds.
I would consider Dual-Cursed.
Finally, even though you're a Bones Oracle, take the Cure spells, not the Cause spells.
Just stop, do not play this character with a group, they don't deserve a party anchor of this magnitude. It is unfair to inflict garbage that is this mechanically inept on anybody. This build is more than fundamentally flawed, it is designed to fail and you know it or you wouldn't have posted it.That's exaggerating things a wee bit.
Here's one possibility:
Str 16 [10]
Dex 10
Con 16 [5]
Int 10
Wis 12
Cha 12 [5]Oracle 1: feat = Improved Init, revelation = Near Death
Fighter 1: feat = Power Attack
Oracle 2: feat = Ironhide
Oracle 3: revelation = Voice of the Grave
etc.Use a dwarven waraxe and a few cleric buffs like Bless, Shield of Faith, Divine Favor, Bull's Strength, Blessing of Fervor, etc. and you're a reasonable melee fighter with undead minions on the side. Just don't forget to buy a headband of Cha every once in a while (Cha +2 by level 6, Cha +4 by level 10, and Cha +6 by level 14)
Right, because a 3/4 BAB character with terrible stats and poor casting ability makes for a great melee combatant... Oh his armor prof and weapon prof suck as well, so he has to dip fighter and he can't even see his charge distance. Sign me up for one party anchor! So heavy it takes an entire party to carry!
Why would he take near death? That's terrible.
You want Undead Servitude.
At level 1? I guess having a few 1 HD minions could be cool.
But you hit on a more important issue: a lot of the Bones mystery revelations kind of suck. He'd probably be better off as a Battle oracle who takes (Lesser) Animate Dead, frankly.
Right, because a 3/4 BAB character with terrible stats and poor casting ability makes for a great melee combatant...
It sounds like you have very little experience with melee clerics. They work just fine, in my experience.
Why would he take near death? That's terrible.
You want Undead Servitude.
At level 1? I guess having a few 1 HD minions could be cool.
But you hit on a more important issue: a lot of the Bones mystery revelations kind of suck. He'd probably be better off as a Battle oracle who takes (Lesser) Animate Dead, frankly.
Right, because a 3/4 BAB character with terrible stats and poor casting ability makes for a great melee combatant...It sounds like you have very little experience with melee clerics. They work just fine, in my experience.
Actually my primary character is a melee cleric. Its also a real cleric and not an oracle, its deity is one that supports melee builds (Gorum), its domain selection is one that supports melee (rage and tactics), its stats are one that supports combat+casting (18 STR, and a 15 in its casting stat before the level 4 boost), it can channel enough for its purpose (neg energy channel + channeled smite = dead enemies). In fact at 6th level my average moderately buffed attack does 2d6+21 weapon damage, 3d6 channel damage and can add 3d8+6 inflict damage via spell storing weapon. Needless to say I can only do that a limited number of times per day, but when you hit that hard its not like you need more than half a dozen hits in the average society game session.
My first society character was also a cleric, one that in my mind was built for combat... It sucked outside of the occasional crit with a heavy pick. It didn't have the stats to support the build. Which are heavy btw, you need decent con, high strength, moderate casting ability, and preferably the ability to channel more than occasionally. I was coming up just short with almost good enough stats and almost good enough feat selection. This bones oracle doesn't even do that, its has no inherent combat ability, no class support, no stat support of the class, and a crippling disability that kills 90 percent of its remaining utility. Yippee, I have dark vision but can't see past 30feet. I'm a dwarf that can't even declare a charge past 30 feet...
This bones oracle doesn't even do that, its has no inherent combat ability, no class support, no stat support of the class, and a crippling disability that kills 90 percent of its remaining utility. . Yippee, I have dark vision but can't see past 30 feet. I'm a dwarf that can't even declare a charge past 30 feet...
I'm not going to defend the Clouded Vision curse. It's definitely one of the most crippling ones possible, and I think it's kind of tedious to have one PC keep asking "What's going on? Is there something out there? Where are we going?", etc.
Fun story: In one of our campaigns, we had an oracle with Clouded Vision fall off of a ship in the middle of the ocean.
"Okay, you see 30' of ocean on every side of you. Which way are you going to swim?"
i have a friend who always makes the party anchor (and i always feel like i need to make a character powerful enough to cover for him)- this reminds me of something he would make (in fact he did make a blind heavens oracle who didn't like to heal two campaigns ago). so i understand the thought process behind wanting to play something sub-optimal, but i also understand the challenge it can be for the rest of the party... if you're thinking about joining random society tables you'll probably have to deal with some frustrated players (and increased risk of TPK if at a small table, or with another sub-optimal player- and forget about trying to play up).
do you really need him to be a dwarf because you feel like you need to prove it can be done or something, or do you want him to be a dwarf because you really like the flavor? if the later...
Not all aasimar are descended from humans. Aasimars can be born of any intelligent race, though human aasimars are the most common. Aasimars of other races usually exemplify the ideals of beauty and skill as seen by their base race. For example, halfling aasimars are small, beautifully proportioned, and display exceptional grace. Half-orc aasimars are slightly larger and stronger than ordinary orcs, with tough skin and metallic claws and tusks—they are likely to be neutral rather than evil, but still display aggression and incredible combat prowess. Less common humanoids, such as lizardfolk, catfolk, tengus, and others, can also produce aasimars, though given these races’ exotic appearance, members of the more common races may have trouble telling such aasimars apart from their kin.
Non-human aasimars have the same statistics as human aasimars with the exception of size. Thus a halfling aasimar is Small but otherwise possesses the same statistics and abilities as a human aasimar—the difference is purely cosmetic. Non-human aasimars do not possess any of the racial abilities of their base race. However, they are usually raised in the same cultural context as other members of their base race, and thus generally adopt the same fighting style as their peers, use the same types of weapons and armor, and study the same skills.
~from "Sidebar: Non-Human Aasimar" on the aasimar race page
if you're completely settled on really being a totally normal dwarf then you're going to have a tough time at it. i didn't see if you said how willing to multiclass you are (in this combo, you should be) but here's a few possibilities:
put all your leveling stat bonuses in Cha and look for an item (to keep it high enough to be able to cast new spell levels)
take 2 levels of urban barbarian (as early as your willing) with the lesser spirit totem (for a free attack that will trigger bleeding wounds, which should be your first revelation). with your spells, focus on buffing (yourself and others) and healing/status removal (don't even think about taking anything that allows a save). with urban barb you can cast while raging and can use decent weapons/armor. play him primarily as a melee guy using buffs to make up for lacking BAB and feats (and buff others to make them feel better about having you around).
take your first level in clouded vision bones oracle- come up with a story reason why you were cursed in this way (maybe you were stillborn but someone revived you and you've always been touched by the grave, or maybe your vision became clouded and your powers developed when you looked into some ancient tomb/burial mound/whatever that nobody is supposed to go near). max you knowledge[religion] and/or any other skill related to your curse. after first, level as a cleric (with domains like death, and feats like control undead to further the way you want to play); have it that he didn't chose to be an oracle but when it happened he started studying death/undeath and joined a church/cult to gain control over the power tied up in his curse.